First Impressions Upon Driving an Esprit...
Discussion
Well, I finally drove my first Lotus Esprit!! A 1989 NON-SE. I dont know what to say about it. It's almost as if I crave to drive it again...BADLY
Here are my quick first impressions:
All these years of reading about how you cant see out of it, and how the gear change is sticky and nasty, and how its very difficult to drive around town, and how the pedals are so close together your hitting two at the same time etc, I call major Bull S*** on that.
I dont know what the hell these journalists are talking about, (they must not have gotten paid enough) because I had NO problem at all seeing out, behind OR from the side!! Sure the rear vision is a bit skewed because of the double pane glass, but I had no problems either way. The gear change was smooth as butter, it shifted like any regular car, if not better if you ask me. Sure it didnt have that beefy tranny, reassuring positive CLICK into gear, but instead it gently, easily and smoothly slid right into any gear no problem (first gear was a different story).
Though I stalled it a few times, it was only because I was selecting 3rd and not 1st, an Esprit beginner mistake im sure. Because other than that reason, I did fine, no bucking, no over revving, the car I thought took off smooth as hell, and the clutch was VERY LIGHT!! ALOT lighter than any Mustangs I have driven. The gas pedal was very tight/heavy, and I thought it would be a problem, but instead it turned out I liked it, alot! It made the acceleration of the car come into perspective. The pedals though close together, were NO problem at all. Not once did I hit another pedal by accident, or even skim it. And I had on wide Aldo shoes, VERY wide shoes.
So with that said, I do not know what the hell these people who complain about those things are doing complaining about it. Now, I can say I do agree with them on a few things though. One thing being the exhuast note. My God, even with a Stebro exhaust and a 3 inch opening the car sounded completely flat and boring! I didnt feel like I was driving a supercar at all. It literally sounded like my Toyota. The car had a nice crackle and pop sound to it on de-throttle which sounded beautiful, and when the turbo kicked in it did start to get a bit more throaty which I liked. But still, it seemed something was lacking with the sound. Which I know has always been a complaint. No big deal really. The other thing I agree with them on is trying to find 1st gear. Talk about hunting for a needle in a hay stack. However, Noah (the man who let me test drive it) told me a trick and it worked plenty well---Tap into the beginnign of 2nd, not all the way in, just tap it, and then it slides into first perfectly.
The power steering was heavy, even when driving, but it wasnt a problem to me at all and I actually liked the tight feeling around corners, but are all non-power steering Esprits so heavy? Like 2 hands on the wheel are a must heavy! This car felt VERY heavy around parking lots and followed EVERY single groove in the road and every bump was like, oh shit are my teeth still here? These to me are not a problem at all, but I wonder if they all feel like that.
I drove around town and on the highway, and the car when turbo kicked in, felt FAST as hell!! Although I didnt gas it above 4. Around town, below 3k, it felt like my toyota could beat it LOL it had practically nothing below 3k.
The seats were supportive, and very comfortable, and adjusted properly. Everything I thought was layed out perfectly. The pedals were layed out fine, and the whole gripe about the lack of a foot rest is plain stupid. There is plenty of room to leave your foot, unless you have a size 14 in which case you probably wouldnt fit in the car anyhow.
So all in all, I have to say it was a very pleasant experience, and I do hope I officially join the Lotus Team soon.
Paul
Here are my quick first impressions:
All these years of reading about how you cant see out of it, and how the gear change is sticky and nasty, and how its very difficult to drive around town, and how the pedals are so close together your hitting two at the same time etc, I call major Bull S*** on that.
I dont know what the hell these journalists are talking about, (they must not have gotten paid enough) because I had NO problem at all seeing out, behind OR from the side!! Sure the rear vision is a bit skewed because of the double pane glass, but I had no problems either way. The gear change was smooth as butter, it shifted like any regular car, if not better if you ask me. Sure it didnt have that beefy tranny, reassuring positive CLICK into gear, but instead it gently, easily and smoothly slid right into any gear no problem (first gear was a different story).
Though I stalled it a few times, it was only because I was selecting 3rd and not 1st, an Esprit beginner mistake im sure. Because other than that reason, I did fine, no bucking, no over revving, the car I thought took off smooth as hell, and the clutch was VERY LIGHT!! ALOT lighter than any Mustangs I have driven. The gas pedal was very tight/heavy, and I thought it would be a problem, but instead it turned out I liked it, alot! It made the acceleration of the car come into perspective. The pedals though close together, were NO problem at all. Not once did I hit another pedal by accident, or even skim it. And I had on wide Aldo shoes, VERY wide shoes.
So with that said, I do not know what the hell these people who complain about those things are doing complaining about it. Now, I can say I do agree with them on a few things though. One thing being the exhuast note. My God, even with a Stebro exhaust and a 3 inch opening the car sounded completely flat and boring! I didnt feel like I was driving a supercar at all. It literally sounded like my Toyota. The car had a nice crackle and pop sound to it on de-throttle which sounded beautiful, and when the turbo kicked in it did start to get a bit more throaty which I liked. But still, it seemed something was lacking with the sound. Which I know has always been a complaint. No big deal really. The other thing I agree with them on is trying to find 1st gear. Talk about hunting for a needle in a hay stack. However, Noah (the man who let me test drive it) told me a trick and it worked plenty well---Tap into the beginnign of 2nd, not all the way in, just tap it, and then it slides into first perfectly.
The power steering was heavy, even when driving, but it wasnt a problem to me at all and I actually liked the tight feeling around corners, but are all non-power steering Esprits so heavy? Like 2 hands on the wheel are a must heavy! This car felt VERY heavy around parking lots and followed EVERY single groove in the road and every bump was like, oh shit are my teeth still here? These to me are not a problem at all, but I wonder if they all feel like that.
I drove around town and on the highway, and the car when turbo kicked in, felt FAST as hell!! Although I didnt gas it above 4. Around town, below 3k, it felt like my toyota could beat it LOL it had practically nothing below 3k.
The seats were supportive, and very comfortable, and adjusted properly. Everything I thought was layed out perfectly. The pedals were layed out fine, and the whole gripe about the lack of a foot rest is plain stupid. There is plenty of room to leave your foot, unless you have a size 14 in which case you probably wouldnt fit in the car anyhow.
So all in all, I have to say it was a very pleasant experience, and I do hope I officially join the Lotus Team soon.
Paul
I do wear size 13-14 shoes and I don't have any problems with space in the foot well. I ususally drive my '91 SE in my socks or barefoot, but I can and have driven it in my shoes.
The gear change on the car isn't terrible, but it isn't good either. Most of the criticism of it was due to two facts: the car cost $60-90K so it should be better and everyone else in that range was doing it at least a little bit better. My biggest complaint about it is the completely lost feeling it has coming out of 5th gear. I have to giggle it to get it to feel like it's in neutral.
Yes the car is pretty dead below 3k, but frankly most cars are. Where ecu upgrades are available, a lot of those issues can be resolved.
The gear change on the car isn't terrible, but it isn't good either. Most of the criticism of it was due to two facts: the car cost $60-90K so it should be better and everyone else in that range was doing it at least a little bit better. My biggest complaint about it is the completely lost feeling it has coming out of 5th gear. I have to giggle it to get it to feel like it's in neutral.
Yes the car is pretty dead below 3k, but frankly most cars are. Where ecu upgrades are available, a lot of those issues can be resolved.
Well done Paul. An 89 non-SE was my first Esprit drive as well. I also agree about most things being fine, although I wasn't a huge fan of the big blind spots just behind and too the sides, not a big deal, but a little un-nerving at first.
I absolutely loved the steering. Sure it may be a little heavy in parking lots, but once you're moving, it's a joy.
Oddly enough, I thought it wasn't that fast, but then we found the waste-gate was never closing properly to make real boost. I haven't driven since it's been fixed. That said, I could make it slide around the autocross course at will, it drifted magnificently. You could hold a slide as long as you wanted. You could feel exactly what each tire was doing. I can't wait to try it with boost!
That said it was still fast enough to handily hit 200kph just cruising along the highway. It is a great highway car, 170ish feels like 110 in my everyday ride. I certainly didn't find that it crashed over bumps/potholes and the like. My teeth were never in danger.
My only gripe is the gearchange. Part of that is due to the reverse lock-out being wonky on the one I drove, but I was just never quite sure what I was going to get. Stirring a pail of gravel with a 2x4 I believe was the comparison I've heard. I wouldn't say it was that bad, but not far off.
All in all, I think everyone should have one. Fabulous cars, considering they are 15 years old now. Even without considering that, they are great cars.
I just can't wait to get my Europa done... similar power, 1000 lbs less.
Gary
I absolutely loved the steering. Sure it may be a little heavy in parking lots, but once you're moving, it's a joy.
Oddly enough, I thought it wasn't that fast, but then we found the waste-gate was never closing properly to make real boost. I haven't driven since it's been fixed. That said, I could make it slide around the autocross course at will, it drifted magnificently. You could hold a slide as long as you wanted. You could feel exactly what each tire was doing. I can't wait to try it with boost!
That said it was still fast enough to handily hit 200kph just cruising along the highway. It is a great highway car, 170ish feels like 110 in my everyday ride. I certainly didn't find that it crashed over bumps/potholes and the like. My teeth were never in danger.
My only gripe is the gearchange. Part of that is due to the reverse lock-out being wonky on the one I drove, but I was just never quite sure what I was going to get. Stirring a pail of gravel with a 2x4 I believe was the comparison I've heard. I wouldn't say it was that bad, but not far off.
All in all, I think everyone should have one. Fabulous cars, considering they are 15 years old now. Even without considering that, they are great cars.
I just can't wait to get my Europa done... similar power, 1000 lbs less.
Gary
Congrats on your first drive, Paul!
Judging by your posting, sounds like it all went really well.
Your thoughts on the gearchange were interesting. I thought that way the first time I drove an SE too. For sake of comparison, you might want to drive a Citroen trans Esprit. Not sure if you're in the states, but if you are, you can find one by driving an '88 or earlier model. The gearshift feel is very different. Although this trans is not as beefy as the Renault, it has a feel and following all it's own. Much more masculine and solid feeling in the gear change. I have friends that upgraded to an SE and missed the feel of the Citroen gearchange. If you're not looking to be king of the street, the '88 (Stevens model) to me is the screaming bargain of the Esprit world. Definitely worth your consideration.
BTW, you wrote that the "Power steering was heavy." There's a reason for that...there is no power steering on '89s. Anyway, don't worry, the more you drive it, the more you'll get used to it. Lotus did an incredible job with the power steering on later models, but the earlier non-power assisted models have a delightful, traditional feel in the steering that is hard to duplicate at speed.
See if you can find more Esprit friends in your area that will let you drive their cars. The more Esprits you drive, the more you will notice the subtle differences from year to year and car to car which will help you in determining the right Esprit for you.
Good luck and I hope you buy an Esprit soon.
Roy
'88 Pearl White Commemorative Esprit Turbo
(2nd Esprit I've owned, but third time around since I had previously sold this one)
Judging by your posting, sounds like it all went really well.
Your thoughts on the gearchange were interesting. I thought that way the first time I drove an SE too. For sake of comparison, you might want to drive a Citroen trans Esprit. Not sure if you're in the states, but if you are, you can find one by driving an '88 or earlier model. The gearshift feel is very different. Although this trans is not as beefy as the Renault, it has a feel and following all it's own. Much more masculine and solid feeling in the gear change. I have friends that upgraded to an SE and missed the feel of the Citroen gearchange. If you're not looking to be king of the street, the '88 (Stevens model) to me is the screaming bargain of the Esprit world. Definitely worth your consideration.
BTW, you wrote that the "Power steering was heavy." There's a reason for that...there is no power steering on '89s. Anyway, don't worry, the more you drive it, the more you'll get used to it. Lotus did an incredible job with the power steering on later models, but the earlier non-power assisted models have a delightful, traditional feel in the steering that is hard to duplicate at speed.
See if you can find more Esprit friends in your area that will let you drive their cars. The more Esprits you drive, the more you will notice the subtle differences from year to year and car to car which will help you in determining the right Esprit for you.
Good luck and I hope you buy an Esprit soon.
Roy
'88 Pearl White Commemorative Esprit Turbo
(2nd Esprit I've owned, but third time around since I had previously sold this one)
Let me make a correction, I did not mean to refer to power steering, I dont know why I wrote that. The steering of the car was really heavy because it had no power steering.
It was definately a cool experience. And I swear each moment that goes by, I find myself wanting to drive it so bad again. I will see if I can drive an 88 to compare shifting feel and steering.
I mean the shifting seemed fine, it could have been a bit more, exciting I guess. It sort of just glided in with no real positive CLICK. It seems very delicate, spongy is a good word to use too. Nonetheless, my biggest gripe was lack of engine note! Now, I didnt bring up into the high RPM's, so I cant really say what it would sound like after 4k, but before it, theres not much but a flat, monotone almost sound. pretty unamusing, but there are ways around that.
What I liked most, was approaching 3k, and as if someone hit a switch, suddenly theres power at your back. It felt amazing, I actually felt it building up as if something was behind the car pushing it with a momentous force! I will crave that rush..I do crave that rush.
I'm still in awe at the fact that I drove an Esprit. Been waiting for that for something like 9 years!
Paul
It was definately a cool experience. And I swear each moment that goes by, I find myself wanting to drive it so bad again. I will see if I can drive an 88 to compare shifting feel and steering.
I mean the shifting seemed fine, it could have been a bit more, exciting I guess. It sort of just glided in with no real positive CLICK. It seems very delicate, spongy is a good word to use too. Nonetheless, my biggest gripe was lack of engine note! Now, I didnt bring up into the high RPM's, so I cant really say what it would sound like after 4k, but before it, theres not much but a flat, monotone almost sound. pretty unamusing, but there are ways around that.
What I liked most, was approaching 3k, and as if someone hit a switch, suddenly theres power at your back. It felt amazing, I actually felt it building up as if something was behind the car pushing it with a momentous force! I will crave that rush..I do crave that rush.
I'm still in awe at the fact that I drove an Esprit. Been waiting for that for something like 9 years!
Paul
Paul, sorry i missed you yesterday. I drove down his street around 6:30 but have no idea where his house is so after not seeing an Esprit, I went home and then off to dinner the parents.
Glad you got to drive it and glad you liked it. You should have opened her up. Next time you are around, or if you got a free weekend afternoon or weekday night, we'll go for a ride in mine. You'll be able to feel the difference for sure, with power steering, chip upgraded performance, etc. So you have somethign to compare to.
I find it funny you found the clutch to be not heavy. I find it to be very heavy, heavier even than the 2600lb plate in the Talon. Not that it bothers me though since I am so used to a heavy clutch.
Shifting is eh. I have a little more "click" in mine since it is modified to shorten the throw but sometimes it can be hard selecting gears. For the most part I do agree, it can be pretty smooth. Still crappy for the price of the car, but decent.
As for exhaust note, all 4 bangers are boring down low. The idle lump from the cam is nice but around town is eh. Opened up she screams though. Not much to do with that cruising exhaust note though.
So what is the deal? You buying an Esprit?
Glad you got to drive it and glad you liked it. You should have opened her up. Next time you are around, or if you got a free weekend afternoon or weekday night, we'll go for a ride in mine. You'll be able to feel the difference for sure, with power steering, chip upgraded performance, etc. So you have somethign to compare to.
I find it funny you found the clutch to be not heavy. I find it to be very heavy, heavier even than the 2600lb plate in the Talon. Not that it bothers me though since I am so used to a heavy clutch.
Shifting is eh. I have a little more "click" in mine since it is modified to shorten the throw but sometimes it can be hard selecting gears. For the most part I do agree, it can be pretty smooth. Still crappy for the price of the car, but decent.
As for exhaust note, all 4 bangers are boring down low. The idle lump from the cam is nice but around town is eh. Opened up she screams though. Not much to do with that cruising exhaust note though.
So what is the deal? You buying an Esprit?
Lotusacbc said:Well, consider that they drive all sorts of cars. The Esprit suffers in comparison. Hell, if you read early tests of the Stevens car, Car&Driver just loved it. And they liked the SE. But by the time you get to the S4s, they're comparing the same basic car from 1988 with the NSX, Ferrari F355, and Porsche 911 Turbo. The NSX was a clean sheet design in '91 (??), the 355 was two generations removed from the '88 328, and so on.
All these years of reading about how you cant see out of it, and how the gear change is sticky and nasty, and how its very difficult to drive around town, and how the pedals are so close together your hitting two at the same time etc, I call major Bull S*** on that.
My personal thought the first time I sat in what was to become my S4s was "this thing sucks". The first time I drove it (on a nice cool day) I realized that none of that crap mattered to me.
Save your pennies Paul. If the guy seeing it on Monday doesn't want it, my S4s will be available in the spring.
Rich - I will definately be giving you a call to get together. As well as to look at Noahs Esprit over again. I am hoping by sometime next week I can have it check over. I thought the clutch was very light, I wasnt expecting it to be so light. Unless I was so caught up in the moment I didnt realize it, but im pretty sure it was light. Are you saying the clutch on the S4 is heavy, or have you tried the one on Noahs car and feel its heavy? So to answer the question of if im buying an Esprit? Well, as of now I want to have it looked over and if all is well I am pretty certain I will entertain an offer. I just wish I could get an idea on the price range of SE's for sale in the U.S. Ebay is overpriced I think, especially considering in the not too far past I had two guys from the Lotus Club in Florida and somewhere else I cant remember selling theirs for around 22-24k. They never got back to me though.
By the way, I emailed you.
Mikey - Thank you for the heads up, but I see you are in the U.K. I am in the U.S. I know what you mean about once you get it in and drive on a nice day all the annoyances mean nothing. Can I ask what particularly you thought 'sucked'?
Paul
>> Edited by Lotusacbc on Friday 8th October 21:16
>> Edited by Lotusacbc on Friday 8th October 21:18
By the way, I emailed you.
Mikey - Thank you for the heads up, but I see you are in the U.K. I am in the U.S. I know what you mean about once you get it in and drive on a nice day all the annoyances mean nothing. Can I ask what particularly you thought 'sucked'?
Paul
>> Edited by Lotusacbc on Friday 8th October 21:16
>> Edited by Lotusacbc on Friday 8th October 21:18
I have not driven Noah's Esprit. I did drive Atwell's but I don't remember the clutch actually as it was my first ever Esprit and got caught in the moment. I am basing my opinion of a heavy clutch on those I have driven. I have driven the gamut of cars, stock and modified. Everyone who has ever driven my Talon says the clutch sucks and I find it lighter than the Esprit. I for one prefer it though, so no bother to me.
It is hard to get a good pricing on the Esprit market. At the moment, it is better to be a buyer than a seller, I think.
It is hard to get a good pricing on the Esprit market. At the moment, it is better to be a buyer than a seller, I think.
NJGSX96 said:
I have not driven Noah's Esprit. I did drive Atwell's but I don't remember the clutch actually as it was my first ever Esprit and got caught in the moment. I am basing my opinion of a heavy clutch on those I have driven. I have driven the gamut of cars, stock and modified. Everyone who has ever driven my Talon says the clutch sucks and I find it lighter than the Esprit. I for one prefer it though, so no bother to me.
It is hard to get a good pricing on the Esprit market. At the moment, it is better to be a buyer than a seller, I think.
Yeah like the clutch on a Mustang is heavy! I was expecting it to be something like that, but to my surprise it was lighter. It is definately better to be a buyer than a seller right now!
Paul
Lotusacbc said:
Yeah like the clutch on a Mustang is heavy! I was expecting it to be something like that, but to my surprise it was lighter. It is definately better to be a buyer than a seller right now!
Paul
Was the clutch stock? never considered a Mustang's cluthc to be heavy. My clutch is heavy but I am so used to heavy clutches, it is second nature now. I remember first drive on the upgraded Talon clutch and hating life it was so rough. if you are used to heavier clutches, then even better.
I know when I was looking there was a $2-3K drop (or rise, depending on your view) in price per year. 91SE was selling for $21-24K while the 94s were going for $28-31K. Some higher, some lower, but for the most part, close like that. it seems to have stayed close to that pricing a year later with a slight drop. Being the one for sale on Pistonheads Classified and havign seen it, the car is in very good shape but I am thinking it is priced a little high. just my opinion though.
>> Edited by NJGSX96 on Friday 8th October 22:23
Lotusacbc said:I'm in central NJ.
Mikey - Thank you for the heads up, but I see you are in the U.K. I am in the U.S. I know what you mean about once you get it in and drive on a nice day all the annoyances mean nothing. Can I ask what particularly you thought 'sucked'?
What I didn't like was that it was cramped, I couldn't see the hood at all, and the rear view was completely bisected by the wing. The wing is still an irritant but I've grown accustomed to the other issues.
If youve got a heavy clutch, check that the clutch pedal pushrod clevis is connected to the UPPER hole in the pedal - there are two holes.
Steering is dramatically affected by tyre choice and wheel alignment - Ive recently put new tyres on my 89 and the steering has lightened dramatically.
Steering is dramatically affected by tyre choice and wheel alignment - Ive recently put new tyres on my 89 and the steering has lightened dramatically.
Have to say, acbc, most of the criticisms you mention WERE levelled at the earlier cars. My '83 suffers from every one and then some, given that as well as the transmission not shiftng that well to start with, it's now 21 years old and all the linkages are worn.
The cockpit IS cramped, you DO stand on two pedals at once (even after some time, if you're dancing on them through the bends)... as for the visibility: I drive a van, so I'm used to looking twice, and then once more to be certain.
I don't find it to be a heavy car, in fact the steering on mine is quite lively.
Anyway, stop finding fault: get your cash out and buy one!
The cockpit IS cramped, you DO stand on two pedals at once (even after some time, if you're dancing on them through the bends)... as for the visibility: I drive a van, so I'm used to looking twice, and then once more to be certain.
I don't find it to be a heavy car, in fact the steering on mine is quite lively.
Anyway, stop finding fault: get your cash out and buy one!
HI PAUL I OWN A FULLY RESTORED 84 ESPRIT TURBO AND THE RIDE IS VERY COMFORTABLE I DON'T FEEL THE BUMPS AT ALL, THE GEARCHANGE IS ALSO VERY GOOD WITH NO PROBLEM SELECTING FIRST GEAR UNTIL THE ENGINE GETS HOT, STILL GOT THE RED PLASTIC CLUTCH HOSE WHICH EXPANDS WITH HEAT MAKING THE GEARCHANGE STIFF, GOING TO UPGRADE IT TO A GOODRIDGE BRAIDED HOSE SOON, ANYWAY HAPPY MOTORING WITH YOUR NEW SUPERCAR.
ANDREW.
ANDREW.
Paul... Glad you finally got to drive a Lotus. When I first got mine, my experences were the same as yours. I thought I had made a costly mistake. New tyres and steering rack cured the steering problems. Yes, the steering is heavy, but I don't have to use the two handed death grip anymore. The rear view isn't so bad. You get used to it along with using the outside mirrors alot. The ride does seem teeth jaring, but your not driving a Toyota. Shifting was a problem at first, but you get used to finding first. I missed a few gears now and then but after a thousand miles or so of driving the shifting gets easier.
Time cures alot of ills!!!!
I can't imagine not having an Esprit now. Its way too much fun.
Dave
90SE
Time cures alot of ills!!!!
I can't imagine not having an Esprit now. Its way too much fun.
Dave
90SE
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