Best Performing '89 Esprit Brake Pads
Discussion
My '89 non-SE is looking to need new brake pads. Many of you have said that a good choice of brake pads would be almost as good as getting the new four or six pot brake upgrades.
So. What pad do you recommended for my Supra brakes for stopping in all but race track situations?
lotusman
'89 non-SE
So. What pad do you recommended for my Supra brakes for stopping in all but race track situations?
lotusman
'89 non-SE
LotusMan:
The first thing I'd do is contact Tom Smith at Dave Bean Engineering (www.DaveBean.com) and order a full set of braided steel brake lines. Install those and you'll actually be able to "feel" the brakes. This will rid the system of most of the give. Huge improvement.
For pads, try CarboTech's (www.CarboTechEng.com) Bobcat or Panther XP Plus compounds. I use the Panthter on my V8. You may want to also look at the Porterfield R4S pads as well.
Mark
The first thing I'd do is contact Tom Smith at Dave Bean Engineering (www.DaveBean.com) and order a full set of braided steel brake lines. Install those and you'll actually be able to "feel" the brakes. This will rid the system of most of the give. Huge improvement.
For pads, try CarboTech's (www.CarboTechEng.com) Bobcat or Panther XP Plus compounds. I use the Panthter on my V8. You may want to also look at the Porterfield R4S pads as well.
Mark
I just went through this exercise, twice. I do track the car, but drive it 3-4 times a week on the street so I wanted a good hybrid pad.
EBCs: I can't say enough bad things about these pads. No initial bite. Pad life stunk. Just bad, bad bad.
I then went to R4S, much better pad. Better initial bite. Don't know about wear as I haven't tracked them yet. Noisy until the bed in, but then not bad.
On the Carbotechs, I talked to Larry and they don't have the backing plate for the SE's brakes. They will make some for you if you send a tracing, but it will take some time.
I'd call Porterfield brakes in California. They can have R4S's to your door (they are in stock, front and rear) tomorrow if you would like.
Kylie in NZ swears by the Mintex pads, but I have not been able to find any in the US.
Jeff
EBCs: I can't say enough bad things about these pads. No initial bite. Pad life stunk. Just bad, bad bad.
I then went to R4S, much better pad. Better initial bite. Don't know about wear as I haven't tracked them yet. Noisy until the bed in, but then not bad.
On the Carbotechs, I talked to Larry and they don't have the backing plate for the SE's brakes. They will make some for you if you send a tracing, but it will take some time.
I'd call Porterfield brakes in California. They can have R4S's to your door (they are in stock, front and rear) tomorrow if you would like.
Kylie in NZ swears by the Mintex pads, but I have not been able to find any in the US.
Jeff
Thanks for the quick responses.
Carbotech's website explains they do not recommend braided lines for normal street use. This would also fly in the face of putting on the braided steel clutch hose.
Has anyone experienced the quarterly failure of braided brake lines that Carbotech explains as a usual possibility? Maybe the coated, braided lines would be a better choice. But where would I get them?
lotusman
'89 non-SE
Carbotech's website explains they do not recommend braided lines for normal street use. This would also fly in the face of putting on the braided steel clutch hose.
Has anyone experienced the quarterly failure of braided brake lines that Carbotech explains as a usual possibility? Maybe the coated, braided lines would be a better choice. But where would I get them?
lotusman
'89 non-SE
I disagree with the statement on braided lines. A good set of braided lines should last indefinitely.
I put new rotors on the car when I put on the R4S pad, so I can't comment on this.
The "common knowledge" among road racers is that you use old pads with new rotors and new pads with old rotors so that they bed correctly. You never want to "new" surfaces contacting each other as they don't wear properly.
Not sure if that applies to the street, but it made sense to me on teh race car and I do try to follow it religiously.
I put new rotors on the car when I put on the R4S pad, so I can't comment on this.
The "common knowledge" among road racers is that you use old pads with new rotors and new pads with old rotors so that they bed correctly. You never want to "new" surfaces contacting each other as they don't wear properly.
Not sure if that applies to the street, but it made sense to me on teh race car and I do try to follow it religiously.
Cannot recommend EBC Greenstuff.
Rebuilt my brake system recently - new disks, fluids, recond master and slaves, new hoses and Greensnuff, very dissapointing. Greensnuff rears seem to be their std road pad - very different pad material from the fronts.
Poor initial bite. Bad feel at end of a fast stop.
Initial bite returns if you surface deglaze the pad - however they quickly revert to softness. Might work OK with slotted rotors.
89 Turbo
>> Edited by moriarty on Friday 1st October 23:39
Rebuilt my brake system recently - new disks, fluids, recond master and slaves, new hoses and Greensnuff, very dissapointing. Greensnuff rears seem to be their std road pad - very different pad material from the fronts.
Poor initial bite. Bad feel at end of a fast stop.
Initial bite returns if you surface deglaze the pad - however they quickly revert to softness. Might work OK with slotted rotors.
89 Turbo
>> Edited by moriarty on Friday 1st October 23:39
Jeff:
CarboTech has a box of various used Lotus brake pads from damn near every brake used on Elans to Esprits. I know because I collected them and mailed them to Matt Nicholson of CarboTech. Guess they didn't keep them.
I put Carbotech Panther XP Plus pads on non-turned used rotors and they worked fine. Next time I order though I'm going with a slightly more aggressive pad for the rear to help plant the car better. Likely CarboTech's 8 compound up front and 9 for the rears. Sanj Vatuk did this on his SE and it really brakes evenly.
I completely disagree with anyone who says using a braided stell line is wrong. I've put them on every Esprit I've owned. To me they simply transformed the brake feel on my former SE.
Mark
CarboTech has a box of various used Lotus brake pads from damn near every brake used on Elans to Esprits. I know because I collected them and mailed them to Matt Nicholson of CarboTech. Guess they didn't keep them.
I put Carbotech Panther XP Plus pads on non-turned used rotors and they worked fine. Next time I order though I'm going with a slightly more aggressive pad for the rear to help plant the car better. Likely CarboTech's 8 compound up front and 9 for the rears. Sanj Vatuk did this on his SE and it really brakes evenly.
I completely disagree with anyone who says using a braided stell line is wrong. I've put them on every Esprit I've owned. To me they simply transformed the brake feel on my former SE.
Mark
The guys at Carbotech are great, really nice but they are clueless on Esprit SEs. I've called down there three times asking about pads and it's always...which model? ....uh..don't have it....not sure....frustrating because I want to use.
Ultimately gave up and went with the Porterfields because they have them in stock.
Does Sanj have the TMC/Renault brakes on his SE or is he running new calipers/rotors?
I totally agree with you on (a) steel brake lines and the effect they have on brake feel and (b) old rotors, so long as they are not scored too badly, are fine with new pads.
Jeff
Ultimately gave up and went with the Porterfields because they have them in stock.
Does Sanj have the TMC/Renault brakes on his SE or is he running new calipers/rotors?
I totally agree with you on (a) steel brake lines and the effect they have on brake feel and (b) old rotors, so long as they are not scored too badly, are fine with new pads.
Jeff
I've just found out yesterday that my S4s has EBC Greenstuff in (I can't beleive I've just admitted to that!). I'll be taking them out next week and replacing them with Hawk pads. Made from carbon so no brake dust, there isn't a better pad for the money. It's about the same price as the EBC but 10 times better. I believe Hawk are US based so even better for you.
Dave Walters
Dave Walters
superdave said:
I've just found out yesterday that my S4s has EBC Greenstuff in (I can't beleive I've just admitted to that!). I'll be taking them out next week and replacing them with Hawk pads. Made from carbon so no brake dust, there isn't a better pad for the money. It's about the same price as the EBC but 10 times better. I believe Hawk are US based so even better for you.
Dave Walters
Dave,
Hawk pads are not brake dust free, but are definetly very low dust pads. You will see about 1/4 of the dust you get with the EBC's.
After a day at the track, the wheels will still be blacked up from the "carbon" ;-)
They are very long wearing as well, after a two day track event, the front pads on my car showed no visible wear, while the rear stock pads were smoked.
Mike
NJGSX96 said:
Porterfield R4S pads. Also heard excellent things about the Mintex pad (forgot the number). Whatever you do, stay away from EBC Green pads.
agreed about the EBC green stuff, its just smoke and mirrors. The mintex 1166 pads with uprated fluids is used by our V8 super car series in NZ and Aust. They have to use low spec disks and calipers for all cars to keep them the same, so they make up for it in chossing their pads and fluids. Our dollar is shocking compared to you guys so would be worthwhile looking here as well. www.0800brakes.co.nz/pg8.htm
Only downside is that they are very dusty on the rims, a small compromise for quality pads.
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