resenting the prospect of engine work
Discussion
Took my car in for a new cambelt(about $1000), turns out my car has an oil leak from the oil pump dripping onto the cambelt ($300 or so to replace the gasket), an oil leak from the head gasket,($250 if I recall correctly for a new head gasket) and an oil leak in the cam tower (which alone, for some reason, he is charging me $1000 for). So altogether to fix 3 oil leaks and change the cambelt I am being charged almost 1/3 what I payed for the car, almost $3000.
Anyways I've decided to do the work myself, and am planning to remove the engine and work on the car later this month once the shop building that is being built on my property is finished. I have experience completely rebuilding small block Chevy engines, though I don't plan on seeing anything too similar to that once I start work on the Lotus.
At this point I'm planning on going ahead and completely rebuilding the engine, including replacing the cam belt, acc belt and hoses. I have a Lotus shop manual, I've read the articles on LEW about replacing the cam o rings and cam belt, but because I am only experienced in working on old american boat anchors, does anyone have any other, random advice on rebuilding these engines (stuff I'd probably find out the hard way)? General encouragement will also be good, because I'm understandably wary of tearing my car apart. Any websites that document extensive work on these engines? I've bought parts from JAE before, does anyone know of anywhere better that I can get a rebuild kit and cambelt and whatnot?
The car is an 86 turbo Esprit HCI (USA) with Bosch Kjetronic injection. and about 50,000 miles.
thanks in advance,
dan
>>> Edited by 86turbo on Monday 27th September 07:32
Anyways I've decided to do the work myself, and am planning to remove the engine and work on the car later this month once the shop building that is being built on my property is finished. I have experience completely rebuilding small block Chevy engines, though I don't plan on seeing anything too similar to that once I start work on the Lotus.
At this point I'm planning on going ahead and completely rebuilding the engine, including replacing the cam belt, acc belt and hoses. I have a Lotus shop manual, I've read the articles on LEW about replacing the cam o rings and cam belt, but because I am only experienced in working on old american boat anchors, does anyone have any other, random advice on rebuilding these engines (stuff I'd probably find out the hard way)? General encouragement will also be good, because I'm understandably wary of tearing my car apart. Any websites that document extensive work on these engines? I've bought parts from JAE before, does anyone know of anywhere better that I can get a rebuild kit and cambelt and whatnot?
The car is an 86 turbo Esprit HCI (USA) with Bosch Kjetronic injection. and about 50,000 miles.
thanks in advance,
dan
>>> Edited by 86turbo on Monday 27th September 07:32
Hey Dan,
No practical advice for you, but I think you are making a wise decision. Adding in one large to replace something that would have to be done anyway for the other stuff is a sure sign of being ripped off. I would not go back there. If you have the shop manual and some experience, I doubt you will have any problems.
Dr.Hess
No practical advice for you, but I think you are making a wise decision. Adding in one large to replace something that would have to be done anyway for the other stuff is a sure sign of being ripped off. I would not go back there. If you have the shop manual and some experience, I doubt you will have any problems.
Dr.Hess
Dan,
I do work primarily on 907 engines, but the engine in my Jensen-Healey actually came from a 1986 Esprit HCI. Reportedly, the local Lotus dealer botched the $14,750.00 rebuild and had to sell it for scrap (and he was factory trained!).
To answer you quesion, I took me about 10 years of tinkering to 'discover' all of the nuances in reconstructing these engines to a reliable state.
Does the engine have good oil pressure? Does it have good compression? If so, I would argue against rebuilding the entire engine because of a little oil. Ever hear the joke: A British car that doesn't leak oil must be out of oil?
I'm afraid if you do split the top&bottom, you will open up the never ending "while you're at it" saga. Plan on budgeting $3k-$5k to do it right depending upon machining costs.
Alternatively, I would suggest stripping the top-end down to the cam-towers to shim the valves (which you need to do anyway). This will give you an opportunity to seal the top-end leaks, and verify the head-bolts are torqued properly.
At this time you can remove the accessory housing and replace all of the gaskets and seals (also, check your oil-pump for rotor clearance). If it makes you feel better, replace the water pump and front seal while you're at it.
Judson
Atlanta, GA
I do work primarily on 907 engines, but the engine in my Jensen-Healey actually came from a 1986 Esprit HCI. Reportedly, the local Lotus dealer botched the $14,750.00 rebuild and had to sell it for scrap (and he was factory trained!).
To answer you quesion, I took me about 10 years of tinkering to 'discover' all of the nuances in reconstructing these engines to a reliable state.
Does the engine have good oil pressure? Does it have good compression? If so, I would argue against rebuilding the entire engine because of a little oil. Ever hear the joke: A British car that doesn't leak oil must be out of oil?
I'm afraid if you do split the top&bottom, you will open up the never ending "while you're at it" saga. Plan on budgeting $3k-$5k to do it right depending upon machining costs.
Alternatively, I would suggest stripping the top-end down to the cam-towers to shim the valves (which you need to do anyway). This will give you an opportunity to seal the top-end leaks, and verify the head-bolts are torqued properly.
At this time you can remove the accessory housing and replace all of the gaskets and seals (also, check your oil-pump for rotor clearance). If it makes you feel better, replace the water pump and front seal while you're at it.
Judson
Atlanta, GA
I've got to go along the same lines, I've worked on several 907 / 910 engines, and if the bottom end does not have any problems, you have good oil pressure, then don't touch it. Same goes for the pistons, if you have good compression leave them alone.
However, on most engines the valves and/or valve guides need work.
However, on most engines the valves and/or valve guides need work.
Oddly enough I was planning on buying a project JH to get used to working on the 900 series engines, but these circumstances have made my own car the focus of my current attention. $3000-5000 seems like quite a bit of money to rebuild the engine, my reasoning for rebuilding the engine entirely is 1)it's going to have to come out anyways and 2) I've built the engines in both of my 55 Chevrolets, my dad's 57 Corvette (possibly the best running car we own), and have 2 more SBCs sitting around that I will probably sell or use in future projects, and I like the idea of knowing every mechanical nuance in the car, while the inner workings of my Lotus remain a mystery.
My car's oil pressure is fine while moving, but at idle the oil pressure is slightly lower than I remember it being when I bought the car (halfway between 0 and the first mark, sorry I'm not with the car right now so I can't say exactly how much that is) And the car was compression tested a few months ago and was fine. Perhaps replacing the head gasket and the others will be enough action, but I feel the need to rebuild the engine myself just for my own security.
An odd thing is that while he described the head gasket oil leak as "serious", my car does not leak oil while parked at all (except right after oil changes and after sitting for more than a month or so), and I've never leaked enough oil between oil changes to justify putting more than half a quart in. Since the last oil change it has not leaked significantly at all. I am familiar with the fact that british cars leak in general, but my cambelt is covered in oil and that can't be a good thing.
I would have to seriously think about investing that much money in a full rebuild.
For future reference, who do you recommend as a good Lotus mechanic in southern California?
>> Edited by 86turbo on Monday 27th September 19:23
>> Edited by 86turbo on Monday 27th September 19:27
My car's oil pressure is fine while moving, but at idle the oil pressure is slightly lower than I remember it being when I bought the car (halfway between 0 and the first mark, sorry I'm not with the car right now so I can't say exactly how much that is) And the car was compression tested a few months ago and was fine. Perhaps replacing the head gasket and the others will be enough action, but I feel the need to rebuild the engine myself just for my own security.
An odd thing is that while he described the head gasket oil leak as "serious", my car does not leak oil while parked at all (except right after oil changes and after sitting for more than a month or so), and I've never leaked enough oil between oil changes to justify putting more than half a quart in. Since the last oil change it has not leaked significantly at all. I am familiar with the fact that british cars leak in general, but my cambelt is covered in oil and that can't be a good thing.
I would have to seriously think about investing that much money in a full rebuild.
For future reference, who do you recommend as a good Lotus mechanic in southern California?
>> Edited by 86turbo on Monday 27th September 19:23
>> Edited by 86turbo on Monday 27th September 19:27
The $3k-$5k figure is based on things that are almost uniquely Lotus. OEM replacement parts are just ridiculously expensive (crank bearings ~$600/set, oil pump & rotors ~$400, matched OEM piston&liner ~$1k/each). Then there's all the machine work...but you can save money if you know what to look for.
The head-gasket leak may in fact be coming from the cam towers (very common). The only place where the head-gasket tends to leak oil is the oil supply drilling just above the Accessory housing (especially if compression is good). If you do have a small leak, getting a valve-job, new valves, gaskets, etc could approach $1k.
The oil on the cam-belt is quite common and it's mostly the result of a leaking front crank seal and/or a leaking accessory shaft seal (occassionally the cam seals will leak as well). Use some 1500grit wet-sandpaper on the shafts to make sure they're smooth.
When oil pressure is lower than expected, concentrate on the oil pump and rotors, instead of assuming the bearings are trashed. The inner-to-outer rotor clearance is only .006" (new ones ship ~.005"). If yours has say .008"-.010" your low-speed hot oil pressure will be 5-15psi.
The head-gasket leak may in fact be coming from the cam towers (very common). The only place where the head-gasket tends to leak oil is the oil supply drilling just above the Accessory housing (especially if compression is good). If you do have a small leak, getting a valve-job, new valves, gaskets, etc could approach $1k.
The oil on the cam-belt is quite common and it's mostly the result of a leaking front crank seal and/or a leaking accessory shaft seal (occassionally the cam seals will leak as well). Use some 1500grit wet-sandpaper on the shafts to make sure they're smooth.
When oil pressure is lower than expected, concentrate on the oil pump and rotors, instead of assuming the bearings are trashed. The inner-to-outer rotor clearance is only .006" (new ones ship ~.005"). If yours has say .008"-.010" your low-speed hot oil pressure will be 5-15psi.
A guy in .nl made a set of 0.50mm oversize pistons from a set of Opel 2.2E's.
Making a type 907 piston
quote:
To get a set of oversize
(0.50 mm) pistons for the
907 engine,
I started with pistons from an
Opel 2.2E engine.
The pictures show how this item is made,
giving details of changes required:
· Photo 1
Oversize (0.50) Opel piston before
end quote
That was off of the WayBack machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040321163533/friess.vinden.nl/secondlotus/secondlotus.htm
Unfortunately, his site is down and the picture is not archived. He lists some the mods: Rebush the rods, machine valve reliefs in the crowns. Sietse is on the Yahoo list occasionally.
Dr.Hess
>> Edited by Dr.Hess on Tuesday 28th September 22:35
Making a type 907 piston
quote:
To get a set of oversize
(0.50 mm) pistons for the
907 engine,
I started with pistons from an
Opel 2.2E engine.
The pictures show how this item is made,
giving details of changes required:
· Photo 1
Oversize (0.50) Opel piston before
end quote
That was off of the WayBack machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040321163533/friess.vinden.nl/secondlotus/secondlotus.htm
Unfortunately, his site is down and the picture is not archived. He lists some the mods: Rebush the rods, machine valve reliefs in the crowns. Sietse is on the Yahoo list occasionally.
Dr.Hess
>> Edited by Dr.Hess on Tuesday 28th September 22:35
judson said:
The $3k-$5k figure is based on things that are almost uniquely Lotus. OEM replacement parts are just ridiculously expensive (crank bearings ~$600/set, oil pump & rotors ~$400, matched OEM piston&liner ~$1k/each).
Wow! That's insane! alright... I think I might wait a while before I rebuild the engine. Quite a while.
judson said:
The head-gasket leak may in fact be coming from the cam towers (very common). The only place where the head-gasket tends to leak oil is the oil supply drilling just above the Accessory housing (especially if compression is good).
I read about that on LEW. Would this be the area, generally, on the right front of the engine? Considering the costs, I would much more readily believe that cam towers were the problem.
judson said:
The oil on the cam-belt is quite common and it's mostly the result of a leaking front crank seal and/or a leaking accessory shaft seal (occassionally the cam seals will leak as well).
does that mean I shouldn't worry too much about the oil on the cambelt anyways? According to my mechanic, the leak is coming from the oil pump, which needs a new gasket. Don't know how much I believe him anymore, though. Thanks for your advice! I'll document my enginework on the forum, complete with pictures and stuff, and I'll probably have plenty of questions for you guys once the work is under way.
dan
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