HP, there is a lot of it these days!
Discussion
Every year it climbs, average horsepower for perfromance cars. Talk about living in a heyday, we're there.
Back when I was young and impressionable, well, I'm still impressionalbe, 200hp was a heck of a lot to have in a 3200 lb automobile. And, the Lotus captured my attention with a lot more horsepower than that in a lighter car.
But these days you need to have 300 at the flywheel to even talk, and 400+ to run with the big boys. Just taking a look around at the track it is incredible with the turbo fours coming from Japan and the V8s produced here at home - lots of power everywhere. Add in the MB and BMW cars from Germany and there is a serious amount of power out there that you can get ahold of fairly easily.
Sure, I still think the Lotus wrapper is a head turner and very unique, as is the suspension and of course the history, but the days are fading that Lotus Esprit is in the top tier of super fast cars running around the strip and track. Nonetheless, with mods and will you can still make them fly.
This time of year is my favorite time to drive my car - it is mighty damn fast since it won't pull boost due to high intake temps and it is still nice enough to do some things out of doors. And, not so hot I need to run my non-functional AC which causes me not to drive the car.
I'd like to put together a track gathering for Lotus folks in NC (drag strip, not enough cash for a road course rental, dragging is fun and cheap) or a dyno gathering, or, just a plain old get together and beer/wine drink. How many Lotus folks in NC/VA/SC would be up for such a thing?
Back when I was young and impressionable, well, I'm still impressionalbe, 200hp was a heck of a lot to have in a 3200 lb automobile. And, the Lotus captured my attention with a lot more horsepower than that in a lighter car.
But these days you need to have 300 at the flywheel to even talk, and 400+ to run with the big boys. Just taking a look around at the track it is incredible with the turbo fours coming from Japan and the V8s produced here at home - lots of power everywhere. Add in the MB and BMW cars from Germany and there is a serious amount of power out there that you can get ahold of fairly easily.
Sure, I still think the Lotus wrapper is a head turner and very unique, as is the suspension and of course the history, but the days are fading that Lotus Esprit is in the top tier of super fast cars running around the strip and track. Nonetheless, with mods and will you can still make them fly.
This time of year is my favorite time to drive my car - it is mighty damn fast since it won't pull boost due to high intake temps and it is still nice enough to do some things out of doors. And, not so hot I need to run my non-functional AC which causes me not to drive the car.
I'd like to put together a track gathering for Lotus folks in NC (drag strip, not enough cash for a road course rental, dragging is fun and cheap) or a dyno gathering, or, just a plain old get together and beer/wine drink. How many Lotus folks in NC/VA/SC would be up for such a thing?
rlearp said:
Every year it climbs, average horsepower for perfromance cars. Talk about living in a heyday, we're there.
Back when I was young and impressionable, well, I'm still impressionalbe, 200hp was a heck of a lot to have in a 3200 lb automobile. And, the Lotus captured my attention with a lot more horsepower than that in a lighter car.
But these days you need to have 300 at the flywheel to even talk, and 400+ to run with the big boys. Just taking a look around at the track it is incredible with the turbo fours coming from Japan and the V8s produced here at home - lots of power everywhere. Add in the MB and BMW cars from Germany and there is a serious amount of power out there that you can get ahold of fairly easily.
Ron..I was discussing this point with a friend just yesterday about this. But what keeps my chin up is that when its parked up beside 400+ hp jappas or beemas even porsches, ours cars are more photogrpahed, oogled over than the others. Its one of the many reasons why I own mine, not just the driving experience but the eye catching timeless shape and beautiful looks. Sometimes I just sit there and stare at it, I never get sick of looking at it despite it just being a 4 pot.
>> Edited by kylie on Saturday 25th September 03:54
The Jap 4's lack any real power once you progress much beyond 100mph. They're great in the rain, and maybe if you want a car that can actually put its power to the pavement, but beyond that there's not much to brag about.
The 400hp+ American V8's are awsome, I own a few, but unfortunatly they're a dime a doezn.
MB, Bimmer, Porches... They're all nice cars, but they just down right lack the exclusivity that a car like the Esprit brings to the table, unless your willing to fork out well over 100g's to pay for one of the higher end models.
The 400hp+ American V8's are awsome, I own a few, but unfortunatly they're a dime a doezn.
MB, Bimmer, Porches... They're all nice cars, but they just down right lack the exclusivity that a car like the Esprit brings to the table, unless your willing to fork out well over 100g's to pay for one of the higher end models.
Funny thing this post came up now.....I was just in Florida on business and got a "deal" on renting a Jaguar XK8 convertible.
Nice car. Plenty of power, honestly couldn't tell above 60 if my Lotus is faster.
But just no panache, even though it is a Jag. Brakes, steering, all of that just felt bland.
The same is true of the Infiniti G35 I've driven, and even my friend's 540i 6-speed. All fast cars, all sort of "dead."
One thing the Lotus is not is "dead." The car always feels alive with whirring noises and smells and brake feedback and steering.
I was emailing the other day with a friend about cars that we would like to own someday and it was funny that none of them were cars that most people consider desirable. They were all cars that differed from the "normal" driving experience. He owns his own software firm and has plenty of money (has/had an Elise, an M Coupe, a Lotus 7 replica and is building his own track car) and has driven most of the newer generation Ferraris and recently had a ride in hte new Porsche Carrera GT.
His verdict? The 360s and teh Gallardos and the Carerra GT are great cars from a technical standpoint, but from the standpoint of providing a unique, sense of occasion driving experience? Not the same as say a 512bb or an early COuntach.
So, I'll take my Esprit even though the rest of the automotive world is catching up performance wise.
Jeff
Nice car. Plenty of power, honestly couldn't tell above 60 if my Lotus is faster.
But just no panache, even though it is a Jag. Brakes, steering, all of that just felt bland.
The same is true of the Infiniti G35 I've driven, and even my friend's 540i 6-speed. All fast cars, all sort of "dead."
One thing the Lotus is not is "dead." The car always feels alive with whirring noises and smells and brake feedback and steering.
I was emailing the other day with a friend about cars that we would like to own someday and it was funny that none of them were cars that most people consider desirable. They were all cars that differed from the "normal" driving experience. He owns his own software firm and has plenty of money (has/had an Elise, an M Coupe, a Lotus 7 replica and is building his own track car) and has driven most of the newer generation Ferraris and recently had a ride in hte new Porsche Carrera GT.
His verdict? The 360s and teh Gallardos and the Carerra GT are great cars from a technical standpoint, but from the standpoint of providing a unique, sense of occasion driving experience? Not the same as say a 512bb or an early COuntach.
So, I'll take my Esprit even though the rest of the automotive world is catching up performance wise.
Jeff
I agree Ron. The HP number is getting ridiculous and to say you have a 300-400HP car now-a-days is not as big a deal as it used to be. Even at the wheels, you need to be over 300 to get a second look.
It's kind of funny, when I bought my 96 Eclipse, all I wanted was a 13 second car, thinking that was fast, and at the time, it was. That car ended up having close to 320BHP when all was said and done. A nice number, but nothing special by the time I acheived it. Then I figured that wasn't enough and so I wanted a 12 second car. In comes my Talon. I run 12s, I now want 11s. It now runs 11s, dyno'd 340WHP (425BHP) on the old setup, now closer to 400WHP (500BHP) and now that I have it how I want it, It is considered average by today's standards and to me, feels slow.
I agree that by today's standards of aftermarket performance and horsepower, the Esprit is lacking. However, with production vehicles, it more than holds its own, especially the S4s and the V8. Since I have the S4, I'll reference that, all 264(285)HP. Still impressive numbers stock to this day. Add a few easy and cheap mods like chip and exhaust and the car hang with the crowd and surpasses a lot of it. With the big dogs it isn't quite up to the task, but add a larger turbo, maybe some nitrous and you are right up there... until the transmission explodes. But seriously, the car is so much more about straight line acceleration. While it does have it, it is happier in the twists and always commands a second glance. To me it is THE car and that is why I bought it. Of course opinions will vary but you can't deny the beauty, poise and power of the Esprit, whether it is the fastest or just as fast as the rest.
Now all this talk has me ready for the track again. Wish I was closer to NC. Since I am not, I'll be hitting a local track shortly. Need to see what this thing can do!
>> Edited by njgsx96 on Saturday 25th September 04:48
It's kind of funny, when I bought my 96 Eclipse, all I wanted was a 13 second car, thinking that was fast, and at the time, it was. That car ended up having close to 320BHP when all was said and done. A nice number, but nothing special by the time I acheived it. Then I figured that wasn't enough and so I wanted a 12 second car. In comes my Talon. I run 12s, I now want 11s. It now runs 11s, dyno'd 340WHP (425BHP) on the old setup, now closer to 400WHP (500BHP) and now that I have it how I want it, It is considered average by today's standards and to me, feels slow.
I agree that by today's standards of aftermarket performance and horsepower, the Esprit is lacking. However, with production vehicles, it more than holds its own, especially the S4s and the V8. Since I have the S4, I'll reference that, all 264(285)HP. Still impressive numbers stock to this day. Add a few easy and cheap mods like chip and exhaust and the car hang with the crowd and surpasses a lot of it. With the big dogs it isn't quite up to the task, but add a larger turbo, maybe some nitrous and you are right up there... until the transmission explodes.
But seriously, the car is so much more about straight line acceleration. While it does have it, it is happier in the twists and always commands a second glance. To me it is THE car and that is why I bought it. Of course opinions will vary but you can't deny the beauty, poise and power of the Esprit, whether it is the fastest or just as fast as the rest. Now all this talk has me ready for the track again. Wish I was closer to NC. Since I am not, I'll be hitting a local track shortly. Need to see what this thing can do!
>> Edited by njgsx96 on Saturday 25th September 04:48
I like the Esprit as well, of course, I've got one too. But the hp wars are getting ridiculous. Why I went with a larger turbo and nitrous, to stay in the game with no ill effects so far, knocking on wood.
Jeff makes some good points. I recently looked through the "100 Best Cars" that Automobile put together and there are a few in there that I definitely wish to own - 512 BB is one of them as is the Countach. One of the early Countachs would be neat. Pantera might have to be done at some point too. But many on the list don't do anything for me, same for many cars that friends of mine lust after. Z8, well, cool but very modern. M5? No lust there.
And I've never understood the Japanese invasion cars, either they do it for you or they don't. As a side note if the younger crowd likes drifting why don't they just get a beat up domestic V8 sedan (Mustang, Camero, Firechicken, Imapala, Corvette) and drift until the tires come apart? Don't think I get it.
Jeff makes some good points. I recently looked through the "100 Best Cars" that Automobile put together and there are a few in there that I definitely wish to own - 512 BB is one of them as is the Countach. One of the early Countachs would be neat. Pantera might have to be done at some point too. But many on the list don't do anything for me, same for many cars that friends of mine lust after. Z8, well, cool but very modern. M5? No lust there.
And I've never understood the Japanese invasion cars, either they do it for you or they don't. As a side note if the younger crowd likes drifting why don't they just get a beat up domestic V8 sedan (Mustang, Camero, Firechicken, Imapala, Corvette) and drift until the tires come apart? Don't think I get it.
kylie said:
Ron..I was discussing this point with a friend just yesterday about this. But what keeps my chin up is that when its parked up beside 400+ hp jappas or beemas even porsches, ours cars are more photogrpahed, oogled over than the others. Its one of the many reasons why I own mine, not just the driving experience but the eye catching timeless shape and beautiful looks. Sometimes I just sit there and stare at it, I never get sick of looking at it despite it just being a 4 pot.
I thoroughly agree with you Kylie. After 17 months of Esprit ownership, I still stop and stare at it, whether I'm walking away from it in a parking lot or in my garage, sometimes in disbelief that I actually own one of these exotic supercars...I love it!
On the subject of photos, my wife and I were at a car show this past weekend for cars '73 and older when it started raining along with bits of pea-sized hail (no damage). We headed to the Esprit for cover, and people would stop and take photos of her while they were being pelted by the hail! They totally ignored some of the old Chevys, etc. that couldn't make it into the show and were parked outside by us.
Bill
'95 S4S
Carrol Shelby said:
Horsepower sells cars. Torque wins races
If you don't believe that, a good example is the F360 Modena. Great little car. Horsepower looks good for it's class, but look at the torque numbers.
You can have a 1000bhp car, but if you are only making 200ftlbs of torque, it doesn't matter.
All IMHO of course...
ErnestM
one of my first cars was an 82 911sc. Probably made 210hp max but it had real power from 1000rpm to well past redline. No power steering and a lowered front end meant it could snap your thumbs off with bump steer, you had to keep both hands on the wheel all the time. The clutch was heavy, the brakes were unbelievably heavy and the shifter was right of a pickup truck.. loooooong throws, no sense of what gear you were shifting to and the gears would grind hard if you werent disciplined with your clutch. Cars like that, the above mentioned bb512, countach, and my personal favorite the pantera are probably represent the peak of 'exotic' automobiles. Face it, if an 80 year old grandmother can drive it then its not a mans car.
sorry to ramble.. but i really miss my 911
sorry to ramble.. but i really miss my 911
For me a lot about the Esprit (four pots only, sorry, I feel the TTV8s are the definition of "underachiever") can be boiled down to one statement:
"Does more with less"
Because that is what Colin was about. Cheap bastard, IMHO, but did a lot with what he had. Come to think of it, I aspire to be like him everyday!
Ron
PS-Cheap bastard might be too strong, but I think you get the point. He definitely used what was available and got the job done.
>> Edited by rlearp on Tuesday 28th September 03:11
"Does more with less"
Because that is what Colin was about. Cheap bastard, IMHO, but did a lot with what he had. Come to think of it, I aspire to be like him everyday!
Ron
PS-Cheap bastard might be too strong, but I think you get the point. He definitely used what was available and got the job done.
>> Edited by rlearp on Tuesday 28th September 03:11
kylie said:
... Sometimes I just sit there and stare at it, I never get sick of looking at it despite it just being a 4 pot.
I recently just moved my home office for several reasons but also so I can see the car on the drive from the desk. They say you should look away from the screen every 15 minutes. Now I actually have a reason too.
Moving the company office and this feature was also a requirement
. Mnd you back to the HP my goal over the next year is to reach the 300 mark at which point I will be happyas I want that extra little kick in the back of the S4s and the mental achievement of it.
Hey guys if you wanna do this let me kow because I kow the guy who owns farmington dragway as well as piedmont dragway.
He opened it up to all the ferrari guys once before, but I'd love to see soem Esprits come out.
I just drove a 03 epsrit and 05 elise last weekend. Now I'm searching for a 2000+ esprit. I absolutley loved the car!
He opened it up to all the ferrari guys once before, but I'd love to see soem Esprits come out.
I just drove a 03 epsrit and 05 elise last weekend. Now I'm searching for a 2000+ esprit. I absolutley loved the car!
our g35 is downright pokey compared to the s4s i drive. I havent driven another car that gave the same thrill. Corvette is nice but about as rare as mcdonalds in ohio.
If you want an unique supercar,
theres
lambo
lotus
ferrari
aston Martin
and a handful of wierdos like cietza, vector etc..
If you want an unique supercar,
theres
lambo
lotus
ferrari
aston Martin
and a handful of wierdos like cietza, vector etc..
the thing that gets me about the 300-400+ HP cars like the M3, M5, E55, etc is their weight requires them to have such large HP numbers. If the cars weighed under 4000 lbs they would be a much more enjoyable car to drive. Same with some of the US V8 muscle cars, their weight does them in, that is unless 1/4 mi is all the owner wants. The Z06 & the new vette are exceptions, finally a great car!!!!
Then take the EVO8 & STi. Quick in the 1/4 mi but their higwyay acceleration is lacking at best. The only reason why they can run a low 13 se 1/4 mi is due to a very quick 60 ft time, highway acceleration they are slower then my viggen
This past weekend I attended a drivers school & I forget the guys name but a esprit owner was there. I beleive a 03 v8 yellow with yellow wheels. Like others stated there were 650 HP GT2's as well as TONS of other expensive porsche's there however most people were checking out his lotus. DAM SWEET CAR!!!!
I feel it's not just the acceleration #'s that matter but the driving experience is what really matters.
Presently lotus deprived but I am saving for a S4/S4s
just love being different
Then take the EVO8 & STi. Quick in the 1/4 mi but their higwyay acceleration is lacking at best. The only reason why they can run a low 13 se 1/4 mi is due to a very quick 60 ft time, highway acceleration they are slower then my viggen
This past weekend I attended a drivers school & I forget the guys name but a esprit owner was there. I beleive a 03 v8 yellow with yellow wheels. Like others stated there were 650 HP GT2's as well as TONS of other expensive porsche's there however most people were checking out his lotus. DAM SWEET CAR!!!!
I feel it's not just the acceleration #'s that matter but the driving experience is what really matters.
Presently lotus deprived but I am saving for a S4/S4s
just love being different
Ron,
Thats it ... that was the absolutely correct term "cheap bastard"
Yesterday I discussed Lotuses with a friend and called Chapman a "genialer Knicksack" (=german equivalent to "genius cheap bastard")
YOU JUST HIT THE NAIL !
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
>> Edited by Paula&Marcus on Monday 4th October 17:49
Thats it ... that was the absolutely correct term "cheap bastard"
Yesterday I discussed Lotuses with a friend and called Chapman a "genialer Knicksack" (=german equivalent to "genius cheap bastard")
YOU JUST HIT THE NAIL !
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
>> Edited by Paula&Marcus on Monday 4th October 17:49
Gazboy said:
the thing that gets me about the 300-400+ HP cars like the M3, M5, E55, etc is their weight requires them to have such large HP numbers. If the cars weighed under 4000 lbs they would be a much more enjoyable car to drive.
I think you have grossly missed the point if you are comparing E55's to S4's. The M5 and E55 AMG will sit on their 155mph limiters until they run out of fuel with the minimum of fuss, the Esprit is supposed to be the definition of the spirit of driving, the journey is more important than the destination, with the emphisis on DRIVING. If a big saloon weighs 4000lbs (1800kg?), it is for a reason, and driver involvement is way down the list of priorities.
If I wanted a car for weekend use only, then an Esprit would be (and is) on my shopping list, if I needed a car for everyday, the Esprit wouldn't get a look in.
I think you misunderstood my point as well. I know you can't compare a lotus to a BMW sedan. My point is that pretty much all of the car companies have taken all the fun out of their cars due to all the crap they put in it. Seems that the computer controlles about everything in the hi HP sedans which like you stated completely takes all the fun out of the car! These fast sedans require 300-500 HP to get all their weight moving. Take the rescent issue of I beleive grassroots motorsport. They compared a E30 vs E36 vs E36 M3. The E46 was by far the quickest around the track however the slowest car was the must fun car to drive which was the E30.
A esprit is also on my list for obvious reasons
The E46 in that article was the most developed too. The E36 was not owned by a huge race shop with a built motor, like the E46 was. I've got an E36 M3 and they are fantastic little cars and much preferred, at the moment, by the track folks that actually use them there. A look at the whos who in SCCA rosters and race results high placements for E36s and E30s, with the E46s not placing as highly as the former.
Hp climbs all the time, no doubt, and, even in heavy cars can be lots of fun. I just purchased a Ford Lightning to use for a daily driver and as a tow truck for my developing SCCA car. Stock they're fast, but with some light modifications can be made scarily fast, which I'll let you know about in a few months!!! ;-)
Ron
>> Edited by rlearp on Tuesday 5th October 12:23
Hp climbs all the time, no doubt, and, even in heavy cars can be lots of fun. I just purchased a Ford Lightning to use for a daily driver and as a tow truck for my developing SCCA car. Stock they're fast, but with some light modifications can be made scarily fast, which I'll let you know about in a few months!!! ;-)
Ron
>> Edited by rlearp on Tuesday 5th October 12:23
I unfortunantly didn't have time to read the entire article thus I didn't know the E46's motor was "Developed". I was under the impression they were all stock. I was also shocked this past summer when my stock viggen kept up with the E46's in the straight at the drivers school, I always thought they were really quick.
I forget where the link is, but I saw a vid of a lighting vs supra vs viper & a few other highly modded cars race on a highway somewhere. By the time they hit 100 mph the lightning was at least 30ft infront of everything else. I am not a truck fan though, I do not enjoy driving my yukon xl even though I need it for work
Then again if it had a few hundred HP more I might enjoy it a little more
I forget where the link is, but I saw a vid of a lighting vs supra vs viper & a few other highly modded cars race on a highway somewhere. By the time they hit 100 mph the lightning was at least 30ft infront of everything else. I am not a truck fan though, I do not enjoy driving my yukon xl even though I need it for work
Then again if it had a few hundred HP more I might enjoy it a little more Gassing Station | Esprit | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff