Questions about the Esprit V8TT
Discussion
I'v been thinking about picking up a newer used Esprit in the not so distant future. Now of course this is from an outsider looking in so bare with me, but I'd like to get my hands on a V8TT if I could.
From what I'v heard all 97/00 V8's had the potential to develope a fairly severe exhaust manifold problem so I was going to try to steer clear of the cars from that time frame (unless there is a proven fix for the problem that wont require replacement of the original motor).
With that, if I were to get a hold of an 01, how dependable are these cars? Are the 01 V8's as dependable as the S4s?
If anyone could answer my questions I'd be most appritiative.
Thanks,
Nathan
>>> Edited by Dr.Bleed on Sunday 19th September 09:32
From what I'v heard all 97/00 V8's had the potential to develope a fairly severe exhaust manifold problem so I was going to try to steer clear of the cars from that time frame (unless there is a proven fix for the problem that wont require replacement of the original motor).
With that, if I were to get a hold of an 01, how dependable are these cars? Are the 01 V8's as dependable as the S4s?
If anyone could answer my questions I'd be most appritiative.
Thanks,
Nathan
>>> Edited by Dr.Bleed on Sunday 19th September 09:32
Nathan:
I've owned five Esprits including a 1990 SE, 1994 S4, 1997 V8 and my current 1999 V8. I've never had any manifold problems with any of them. The old adage, the newere the better holds true for any car I think.
The 1998+ V8's had a revised shift mechanism that makes them easier to shift with a slightly shorter throw and of course the interior is much more modern with MUCH better ergonomics and better operating HVAC controls. That said you lose a number of important guages with the new interior. You don't have an oil temp or oil pressure guage and you lose the boost guage.
The 2001 V8 will have the AP brakes which most people prefer over the Brembos. I love my Brembos with the proper brake pads.
If you opt for a black/tan 2001 V8, there's one for sale in St. Louis from a local guy in our club. E-mail me at Feffman@Yahoo.com if you are interested.
Mark Pfeffer
I've owned five Esprits including a 1990 SE, 1994 S4, 1997 V8 and my current 1999 V8. I've never had any manifold problems with any of them. The old adage, the newere the better holds true for any car I think.
The 1998+ V8's had a revised shift mechanism that makes them easier to shift with a slightly shorter throw and of course the interior is much more modern with MUCH better ergonomics and better operating HVAC controls. That said you lose a number of important guages with the new interior. You don't have an oil temp or oil pressure guage and you lose the boost guage.
The 2001 V8 will have the AP brakes which most people prefer over the Brembos. I love my Brembos with the proper brake pads.
If you opt for a black/tan 2001 V8, there's one for sale in St. Louis from a local guy in our club. E-mail me at Feffman@Yahoo.com if you are interested.
Mark Pfeffer
feffman said:
The 1998+ V8's had a revised shift mechanism that makes them easier to shift with a slightly shorter throw and of course the interior is much more modern with MUCH better ergonomics and better operating HVAC controls.
Hi Mark,
It was good to see you last weekend. I had a lot of fun
Regarding your comments: I've heard others mention the better ergonomics, but I fail to see how. The new interior has harder to reach window switches, no glove box, no center storage tray, no real internal storage space, a wider front header rail which puts it closer to your head, no boost gauge, no oil pressure gauge, no oil temperature gauge, no clock (except for the radio), the headlight switches and a/c controls are blocked by the shift lever. Everything else is similar to the previous interior.
I will admit the new interior looks cleaner, more modern and defnitely cooler than the older one, and I am extremely jealous of the newer shift mechanism without the translator (it shifts like butter) but I think from an ergonomic standpoint the newer cars are horrible.
What do you think?
Karl: I'll take a stab at this...
The new interior has harder to reach window switches
Hardly use them except when paying tolls
no glove box, no center storage tray, no real internal storage space
All I need is room for the CD's and reg and insurance documents. Sunglasses go in the centre console. "Lack of Storage" saves me from myself - I have no incentive to clutter up the car
a wider front header rail which puts it closer to your head
change the recline in the seat
no boost gauge
keeps you from getting anal about the boost
no oil pressure gauge, no oil temperature gauge
that is a bit worrying, but you do have "idiot lights
no clock (except for the radio)
have one on my wrist
the headlight switches and a/c controls are blocked by the shift lever
not really. Even before I went with the 2004 shift knob (which is shorter) I never had a problem with the shifter interfering with anything
ErnestM
The new interior has harder to reach window switches
Hardly use them except when paying tolls
no glove box, no center storage tray, no real internal storage space
All I need is room for the CD's and reg and insurance documents. Sunglasses go in the centre console. "Lack of Storage" saves me from myself - I have no incentive to clutter up the car
a wider front header rail which puts it closer to your head
change the recline in the seat
no boost gauge
keeps you from getting anal about the boost
no oil pressure gauge, no oil temperature gauge
that is a bit worrying, but you do have "idiot lights
no clock (except for the radio)
have one on my wrist
the headlight switches and a/c controls are blocked by the shift lever
not really. Even before I went with the 2004 shift knob (which is shorter) I never had a problem with the shifter interfering with anything
ErnestM
Thanks for the info guys. Well that makes me feel alot better about getting a late 90's esprit. I had just heard a handful mention problems with early V8 cars, and I was just alittle skeptical thats all. Glad to here it though.
As far as the Brembo vs the Newer brakes are concerned, well to a lesser extent (as far as cars are concerned) I have a 2003 Mustang Cobra, and I must say I'm very pleased with Brembo performance, so I'm sure I wouldnt be dissapointed with there performance on a car like the Esprit.
Again thanks for the input.
Nathan
>> Edited by Dr.Bleed on Sunday 19th September 18:35
As far as the Brembo vs the Newer brakes are concerned, well to a lesser extent (as far as cars are concerned) I have a 2003 Mustang Cobra, and I must say I'm very pleased with Brembo performance, so I'm sure I wouldnt be dissapointed with there performance on a car like the Esprit.
Again thanks for the input.
Nathan
>> Edited by Dr.Bleed on Sunday 19th September 18:35
Dr.Bleed said:
As far as the Brembo vs the Newer brakes are concerned, well to a lesser extent (as far as cars are concerned) I have a 2003 Mustang Cobra, and I must say I'm very pleased with Brembo performance, so I'm sure I wouldnt be dissapointed with there performance on a car like the Esprit.
The biggest difference in braking on later Esprits has nothing to do with Brembo vs. AP Racing. The problem is that the first cars to have Brembo brakes (4-cyl Esprit S4 and S4s) had the dreaded Delco Powermaster III ABS. When the V8 was introduced in 1996, Lotus switched to the Kelsey-Hayes 4 channel ABS which is far superior. Although both systems used the same Brembo discs and calipers, the feel and stopping power of the latter system is much better.
Karl:
It was finally great to meet you as well. Good turnout from the Florida gang. I hope all of you will make the trek to my fair city for LOG 25.
Never thought about the ergonomics that way. I was just "looking". I do miss the glovebox but most desperately miss the extra guages, particuarly the oil temp and oil pressure guages.
Harry Appleby has a replacement "A" pillar for the newer V8's with a spot for a single guage (it looks nice then Gordonie's as it's further down the A pillar) which I plan to install a Racetech guage which has both oil pressure and temperature in one guage. It looks very similar to the VDO guages and is even back lit. May look slightly boy racer, but I want the piece of mind. As for the HVAC, the new controls seem to be light years ahead of my S4 controls. Never could get the heat to be comfortable, either too hot or not,
Can you send me the information about your cruise control. That goes in this winter too. Send me the info at Feffman@Yahoo.com or call me at (314) 889-0572.
Happy Lotusing!
Mark
It was finally great to meet you as well. Good turnout from the Florida gang. I hope all of you will make the trek to my fair city for LOG 25.
Never thought about the ergonomics that way. I was just "looking". I do miss the glovebox but most desperately miss the extra guages, particuarly the oil temp and oil pressure guages.
Harry Appleby has a replacement "A" pillar for the newer V8's with a spot for a single guage (it looks nice then Gordonie's as it's further down the A pillar) which I plan to install a Racetech guage which has both oil pressure and temperature in one guage. It looks very similar to the VDO guages and is even back lit. May look slightly boy racer, but I want the piece of mind. As for the HVAC, the new controls seem to be light years ahead of my S4 controls. Never could get the heat to be comfortable, either too hot or not,
Can you send me the information about your cruise control. That goes in this winter too. Send me the info at Feffman@Yahoo.com or call me at (314) 889-0572.
Happy Lotusing!
Mark
ErnestM said:
I can say, regarding the brakes, having had both, the stopping power and feel of the AP's is light years ahead of the Brembos. I'm still bedding in the new pads so haven't leaned on them too hard yet, but found that you don't have to lean on them...
ErnestM
Yes, but you already had the Kelsey-Hayes ABS which is also light years ahead of the crappy Delco Powermaster III. Changing your calipers made a good system even better. I also wonder if the new pads (what brand are they - Ferrodo?) are giving you more bite than the Porterfield R4-S which require quite a bit of heating up before they really bite. Also, how's the dust with the new brakes.
feffman said:
Karl:
Can you send me the information about your cruise control. That goes in this winter too. Send me the info at Feffman@Yahoo.com or call me at (314) 889-0572.
Happy Lotusing!
Mark
Hey Mark,
As I posted on the TurboEsprit list, just look at Jim Knowles' installation. It is identical to mine:
www.nhelevator.com/images/personal/cc.html
Cheers.
I have had my '02 for almost 6 months, have driven it daily to work, and 9hr,4hr and 6hr trips to Chicago, Birmingham (LOG) and Atlanta with no problems at all. It is a wonderful car and so far very reliable. I am coming off 2 Porsches and 2 Ferraris and this is my favorite yet. I don't think you can go wrong with a 00 plus model.
karlfranz said:
I also wonder if the new pads (what brand are they - Ferrodo?) are giving you more bite than the Porterfield R4-S which require quite a bit of heating up before they really bite. Also, how's the dust with the new brakes.
Could be - Don't know the brand, whatever came with Lotus' upgrade kit...
...the dust sucks. I will probably end up getting the R4-S pads soon.
The brakes just feel more like they belong. I don't know what it is probably the calipers and the slightly larger diameter. The old Brembo stuff just did not inspire confidence when the average idiot slammed on brakes in front on a yellow or one of our famous "Florida Blue Hairs" pulls out in front because they never bother to see what's coming...
...the AP's feel SPOT ON!
ErnestM
Dr.Bleed said:
I have a 2003 Mustang Cobra, and I must say I'm very pleased with Brembo performance..
Nathan
There's nothing wrong with the quality of any brembo product, just that with the esprit, the brembo'd cars have only 296mm front 300m rear discs, whereas the AP cars have 320mm all round plus the AP's have bigger bore pistons and greater pad area.
I've driven my car with brembos very hard on the street and although i've never had them fade, they do not inspire confidence (i'm braking much sooner than i'd like just to be safe). I ran several different disc/pad combinations which improve things but its only marginal. I've upgraded my V8 to the later AP specifications and the difference is huge. I recently did 2500 miles thru europe driving the car hard through the Alps - the brakes were absolutely awesome.
BTW - Ernest, i have Porterfield R4-S pads all round with my AP's and I get LOTS of dust
.. but if you DO change can i have your lotus pads??
Never had manifold issues on my car. Its a 98 with 78,000 miles so far.
cheers
Rob
Glad to here nothing but positive feedback on the reliability of even the older V8 cars. That was actually more my concern too.
The Brake system, on the other hand, is something that doesnt sound like it would be too hard to alter providing for some strange reason I end up not being happy with, so with that, sounds really good.
Thanks for all of your help so far. Hopefully come next spring or summer I can get the ball rolling on getting my hands on one of these machines.
The Brake system, on the other hand, is something that doesnt sound like it would be too hard to alter providing for some strange reason I end up not being happy with, so with that, sounds really good.
Thanks for all of your help so far. Hopefully come next spring or summer I can get the ball rolling on getting my hands on one of these machines.
medic327 said:
What about the "porous engine block" and the faulty sealer for the engine liners in the pre 2000 cars. Sounds a bit expensive if the work hasn't been done already, no? See the other thread entitled "V-8 engine rebuilds-Common?"
That subject is covered extensively on LEW:
www.lotusespritworld.com/ETechnical/V8_Liner_Problems.html
Its important to stress that this LEW page is not just a statement of opinion or a collection of annecdotes or hearsay - Kato has several contacts at the Lotus factory and will have checked out all his facts before publishing this page. Its the definitive answer regarding coolant loss issues.
Ie since the introduction of the hylomar sealant there has only been one recorded failure in 600 engines. Anything from June 2000 will be fine, or anything prior to that date that has had a rebuild with the hylomar sealant will be fine also.
I'm currently publishing my Esprit site here :
www.jonathanedwards.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/esprit/esprit.htm
Of interest might be the full service record I have for the car (minus a few un-documented A services) - found in the modifications / maintenance section.
The big hitters are the engine rebuild (£4,600 done for free by them nice chaps at lotus !) - the common modification to the ignition setup due to water corrosion (£670 for early V8's) and the air-con overhaul (£500) which was probably down to underuse.
It's probably worth noting the car was registered in 1997 and had only done 6,000 miles in 2000. Before I'm pretty sure it was a demo model as its service stamps were filled in at extremely small milage intervals every 6-12 months by the dealer it was eventualy bought from.
I will also publish the details of the engine rebuild asap including the letter Lotus sent the previous owner about the problems.
www.jonathanedwards.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/esprit/esprit.htm
Of interest might be the full service record I have for the car (minus a few un-documented A services) - found in the modifications / maintenance section.
The big hitters are the engine rebuild (£4,600 done for free by them nice chaps at lotus !) - the common modification to the ignition setup due to water corrosion (£670 for early V8's) and the air-con overhaul (£500) which was probably down to underuse.
It's probably worth noting the car was registered in 1997 and had only done 6,000 miles in 2000. Before I'm pretty sure it was a demo model as its service stamps were filled in at extremely small milage intervals every 6-12 months by the dealer it was eventualy bought from.
I will also publish the details of the engine rebuild asap including the letter Lotus sent the previous owner about the problems.
rob.e said:
What about the "porous engine block" and the faulty sealer for the engine liners in the pre 2000 cars. Sounds a bit expensive if the work hasn't been done already, no? See the other thread entitled "V-8 engine rebuilds-Common?"
That subject is covered extensively on LEW:
www.lotusespritworld.com/ETechnical/V8_Liner_Problems.html
Its important to stress that this LEW page is not just a statement of opinion or a collection of annecdotes or hearsay - Kato has several contacts at the Lotus factory and will have checked out all his facts before publishing this page. Its the definitive answer regarding coolant loss issues.
Ie since the introduction of the hylomar sealant there has only been one recorded failure in 600 engines. Anything from June 2000 will be fine, or anything prior to that date that has had a rebuild with the hylomar sealant will be fine also.
Sounds strikingly similar to a head gasket problem the way they described it.
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