V8 engine rebuilds - common?

V8 engine rebuilds - common?

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Discussion

Angelis

Original Poster:

2,333 posts

244 months

Wednesday 15th September 2004
quotequote all
I've noticed two yellow V8 Esprits in the lotusespritworld for sale section.

One is a 1999 with and engine rebuild at 29,000 and the other a 2000 with an engine rebuild at 19,000 miles.

Are engine rebuilds common in V8's?

Or is it just yellow esprits?

Lawrence5

1,253 posts

243 months

Thursday 16th September 2004
quotequote all
Yeah very common - early ones had porous blocks, suffered gasket failures, belt failures and things as silly as water dripping through the engine vents and rusting the spark plugs into the head.

Rebuilt engines are cheaper and there are a few people making them better than original.

Good S4s is the most reliable but don't rule the V8 it has considerable performance. The newer the rebuild the greater the chance it will have been rebuilt to a better spec.


>> Edited by Lawrence5 on Thursday 16th September 08:34

rob.e

2,861 posts

286 months

Thursday 16th September 2004
quotequote all
Mine had one at 55k miles. I know of a few others too..

mustard

6,992 posts

253 months

Thursday 16th September 2004
quotequote all
They all seem to go at some stage, happy to report (touches large piece of wood) that once rebuilt reoccurance(sp) is very rare

Paul Brittain is quite a dab hand at 'em

>> Edited by mustard on Thursday 16th September 09:59

lotusespritworld

317 posts

271 months

Thursday 16th September 2004
quotequote all
Anyone whose done a little research into buying a V8 will know about a problem with the early engines that requires a lot of expensive work. Originally if was felt the buying a post '98 V8 was a way of missing this possibly expensive problem, unless the Esprit had had the work done already.

After some research into the problem, by myself and some V8 owners, the fault has been found to be the sealer for the engine liners. Also it has been found that the problem wasn't rectified at the factory until around June 2000. So it is possible for any pre June 2000 Esprit will have this fault arise.

What happens is the sealer used to seal the liners in each cylinder, to stop water that cools the engine mixing with oil that lubricates the engine, fails. This results in water leaking into the cylinders and ending up in the sump.



Engine water leaks :-
Some early cars experienced cooling problems for various reasons ranging from poorly sealing pressure caps (water not returning to the main header tank) resulting in engines overheating to simple leaks from hose connections.

We recommend that any car experiencing water loss have the cooling system checked - by breaking into the overspill pipe and pressure testing the system to ensure no leaks and that the pressure cap is holding the correct pressure before 'blowing off'.

You would be surprised how many older cars have defective caps - i.e. blowing off at a much lower pressure than specified. Many people check the system through the cap connection with a standard service tool - this checks the system but does not ensure the cap is working properly on the header tank !

Something as simple as this is commonly to blame for many water loss issues. It was found that once an engine overheated the result was that the liner sealant seemed to break down and cause a leak round the base of the liner. This was investigated and a new sealer was specified for new build and engine repair (sealer changed from Loctite 572 to Hylomar 3400 on a Dealer Service Bulletin in June 2000 following extensive durability testing) We have also seen the odd thing like the water pump impellor coming loose (resulting in no water flow and overheating), corroded blanking plugs in the cylinder heads of some early engines (plug insertion depth now changed to eliminate problem), the odd poor casting which can cause a leak etc.

quiksilver

26 posts

248 months

Thursday 16th September 2004
quotequote all
My '97 V8 was done at about 25,000 miles by lotus themselves for free :O]

I would never have bought the car unless it had this job done on it.

I got a full couple of pages report on the rebuild and the reasons why it failed (as stated above). From what i've read it is a common fault, apparently it was not Lotus but a parts supplier that was at fault.

rob.e

2,861 posts

286 months

Thursday 16th September 2004
quotequote all
mustard said:

Paul Brittain is quite a dab hand at 'em


Yep, he did mine and its still fine after another 22k miles

kmaier

490 posts

278 months

Thursday 16th September 2004
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I've got over 40K miles on mine and no engine related problems yet, although I have one spark plug that gets rusty... on the left side (second from front) which is probably nothing more than bad sealant of the spark plug covers. But there can be multiple sources of lost coolant.

For the most part the engine runs great and bloody quick too. Once I get home from 4 weeks out it will be time to replace the cambelts/tensioners and an overall checkup. I plan to reseal the spark plug covers so hopefully won't get the one rusty plug again.

If I were in the market for a V8, I'd still go with 2000 MY or later for the upgraded bits/pieces which include paint trim and AP racing brakes. Just my $0.02.

Regards, KM
2000 V8

kmaier

490 posts

278 months

Wednesday 1st June 2005
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Almost hate to resurrect this thread... must be something magical about crossing the 50K miles marker. What started as a small unexplained coolant loss has developed into a dirty milkshake in the crankcase (damn, double-damn). Performance is still fine so I'm thinking it's liners (engine is 4th one done with Hylomar sealant). I flushed the entire system with fresh oil and replaced the filter element (CM Filters synthetic) and there was no debris in the filter, but it's still going to require removal, disassembly, inspect, etc. to ensure the motor is okay. I also ran the motor for about 5 minutes to flush the the entire system (pressure cap off) and the engine sounds, idles and revs perfectly.

Oh well... come fall I'll be able to answer the question, "what did you do over the summer?".

Regards, KM
2000 V8

PS- "C"-Service : rebuild complete drivetrain every 50K miles.

scoule

299 posts

292 months

Wednesday 1st June 2005
quotequote all
Hmmm, there was a case in the UK of an engine with the later sealant ahving leaky liners. I believe Lotus sent out a technician to inspect and rebuild the engine. They found that the sealant was not applied correctly - the engines were apparently built offsite for a period and the faulty engine was one of those built off-site.

Take a look here ...

www.lotusespritworld.co.uk/ETechnical/V8_Liner_Problems.html

I think it's worth calling Lotus to see what they have to say!

Angelis

Original Poster:

2,333 posts

244 months

Wednesday 1st June 2005
quotequote all
How much will an engine rebuild cost?

kmaier

490 posts

278 months

Wednesday 1st June 2005
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No idea on costs yet... I'm doing the job myself. So far the official Lotus engine lifting brackets were a mere $280. Planned upgrades include JE forged pistons, ARP uprated headbolts, Sport 350 engine mounts and some other bits. Will probably freshen up the heads, replace the snapped exhaust manifold studs, ceramic coat the exhaust manifolds, try and get the turbo cores upgraded to the newer GT ball-bearing styles just ensure everything else is proper... and maybe get the injectors spec'd for flow. Trying to do this only once.

Regards, KM
2000 V8

cross-eyed-twit

8,773 posts

268 months

Thursday 2nd June 2005
quotequote all
best of luck, i look forward to the results

stals v8

67 posts

235 months

Thursday 2nd June 2005
quotequote all
I to have suffered a coolant loss in my 97 v8.

I kept it topped up as you do but last week the temp needle shot right up into the red.

She started to run like a dog & i got her straight home but she just cut out which was probably a good thing. As it topped up the radiator just blew, water was pissing out.
The low water warning light didnt come on due to a faulty sensor located in the top expansion tank.
So be warned & check yours is.
The car has been left with my lotus man & he has had the rad re-cored & after pressure testing it seems fine but i have to stick as many miles on the clock as i can as i'm taking it to the le mans 24hrs & will be driving down from the channel tunnel.
Just reading the liner sealant info & i wonder if this overheating has potentially damaged the head gasket and/or affected the piston liners as she was really hot. Or maybe i'l be lucky, shes only done 29000.
needles to say i'l have breakdown cover whilst in france but i'd sooner know now.
No explanation for the rad going & apparently they dont have a habit of going in the later esprits so it was just my luck.
Any thoughts people?

cb1118

99 posts

238 months

Friday 3rd June 2005
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correcting my post ]]]]

read the V8 liner problem,
but can anyone explain how to use the "BarsLeak"

it seems the V8 liner problem is the biggest issue for 98 & after V8 car

after reading many informations of the V8 model, I think the biggest issue is the liner problem, but seems the application of "BarsLeak" can solve the problem eventually, right??

NOTE: an owner experience in the V8 Liner program page is suggesting people to use "BarsLeak", which I still have no idea what it is..

anyone has a photo of the "BarsLeak" product?

>> Edited by cb1118 on Friday 3rd June 18:05

Paula&Marcus

317 posts

282 months

Friday 3rd June 2005
quotequote all
Hi Kato, Hi All,
I was hesitating a long time to write this post, but I feel I should just do it now ......

The later spec Hylomar 3400 sealant has proven itself NOT to be Glycol-resistant. Can you imagine what this means ??? The later spec Hylomar 3400 (like recommended by Lotus) get simply eaten away by the coolant !

I´m quite depressed, because there have been about 7-9 V8 engines that got repaired/rebuilt here by using this Hylomar 3400 stuff.

When one of them again had the coolant in oil problem and the engine was dimantled again, the Hylomar had just disappeared .... HAD GONE COMPLETELY !

We called some companies that produce sealant products (also Loctite among them) and they all stated that Hylomar 3400 is not resistant against Glycol.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhh ...........

What is your opinion about that ? Can this be true ?

What I definitely can tell is that the Hylomar has completely gone (

Marcus







>> Edited by Paula&Marcus on Friday 3rd June 15:43

kmaier

490 posts

278 months

Friday 3rd June 2005
quotequote all
Hello Marcus,

Oddly enough I was starting think along these lines. And with this being the case, it's simply a matter of time before every V8 starting early 2000 will eventually have leaking liners. My car is #61 and was manufactured in March 2000 and has engine number 603 making it the 4th engine built with Hylomar 3400.

So with this information, exactly what do we use now to seal engines with?

Regards, KM
2000 V8

Cross-eyed-twit

8,773 posts

268 months

Friday 3rd June 2005
quotequote all
I don't understand how all the other V8 engines on the market are able to survive without sealant problems. Or am I missing some design and manufacturing technique that Lotus use that other companies don't. Are Lotus unique in that they use sealant to seal the liners???

cnh1990

3,035 posts

271 months

Friday 3rd June 2005
quotequote all
Arrrrg.....that is just nasty. I have been waiting in the wings to get a V8 in the near future having sold my SE. I was going back and forth between the V8 and S4s. I was waiting for more hands on people to get a hold of the V8's and give me a report on them.

Maybe I can get hold of one with a blown engine if it can be had cheap enough to make sense. Other wise it's the S4s for me. Are the real new V8 engines more durable or did they all use this glycol destructive sealant?

Calvin

scoule

299 posts

292 months

Friday 3rd June 2005
quotequote all
Err, should we be switching to non-glycol based coolants this afternoon? Are there any?!

What sealant did they use in the old 4 cylinder models? Why can't that be used? My Excel is 15 years old and has done 130k miles, my Esprit S350 with 12k miles scares me a whole lot more!

>> Edited by scoule on Friday 3rd June 17:09

>> Edited by scoule on Friday 3rd June 17:10