Adjustable SPAX shocks
Discussion
I just had my '91 Lotus Esprit SE in for the B-Service and found out I need to replace all 4 of my shocks. By far the best price I found for replacements in the US was for the fully adjustable SPAX shocks from JAE.
Does anyone have any experience or advice using these with an Esprit? I don't want to set them up wrong and mess up my handling.
Does anyone have any experience or advice using these with an Esprit? I don't want to set them up wrong and mess up my handling.
How much are they offering them for? How many springs do they provide?
Be sure to compare them to Marcus':
http://freudhoefer.de/lotus/esprit/
Luke.
Be sure to compare them to Marcus':
http://freudhoefer.de/lotus/esprit/
Luke.
I was employed by Spax many years ago.
What I say is not by way of criticism of the company and its products as they may be today, but an observation of how things were about 12 years ago.
Their adjustable damper was not built with the precision of a Swiss watch. It was a simple and traditional damper which had a provision for adjustment of the damping rate by way of a fairly crude screw.
The design was relatively reliable and effective, but there was never any guarantee that the damping rates of any two units would be matched, particularly when the enthusiastic owner started fiddling with the adjustment screws.
Assuming that the basic design remains unchanged, I would like to see each axle set of dampers matched on a chassis dynamometer before stuffing them on my Esprit.
There was absolutely no guarantee that, for instance, click three on one damper would correspond to click three on the opposite side.
Many Spax dampers also have adjustable platforms, so that the ride height can be changed. This introduces yet another variable into the equation and another opportunity for the hapless owner to cock things up.
As I say, my observations are based on a brief stint at Spax over a decade ago and are not intended as a criticism.
Their head office at Bicester had a Low Volume Facility with the appropriate dynos to measure the relative performance of dampers, which would allow a matching set of dampers to be selected, but in my day at least, this technology was not applied to the sort of units that one might buy over the shelf.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Pat
What I say is not by way of criticism of the company and its products as they may be today, but an observation of how things were about 12 years ago.
Their adjustable damper was not built with the precision of a Swiss watch. It was a simple and traditional damper which had a provision for adjustment of the damping rate by way of a fairly crude screw.
The design was relatively reliable and effective, but there was never any guarantee that the damping rates of any two units would be matched, particularly when the enthusiastic owner started fiddling with the adjustment screws.
Assuming that the basic design remains unchanged, I would like to see each axle set of dampers matched on a chassis dynamometer before stuffing them on my Esprit.
There was absolutely no guarantee that, for instance, click three on one damper would correspond to click three on the opposite side.
Many Spax dampers also have adjustable platforms, so that the ride height can be changed. This introduces yet another variable into the equation and another opportunity for the hapless owner to cock things up.
As I say, my observations are based on a brief stint at Spax over a decade ago and are not intended as a criticism.
Their head office at Bicester had a Low Volume Facility with the appropriate dynos to measure the relative performance of dampers, which would allow a matching set of dampers to be selected, but in my day at least, this technology was not applied to the sort of units that one might buy over the shelf.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Pat
I have the SPAX adjustables from JAE on MY Esprit 89SE.
For the money they are ok, they do make a noticable difference in handling. I did have one rear shock leak a little after the car was off the ground for a while. I replaced it.
I have around 24,000 miles on my SPAX.
I set the fronts to 12 out of 14 clicks and the rears to 14 (the stiffest on my models).
I also have the left rear shock (USA driverside) set to 3mm taller than the other side to account for the lean of the car. This evens out the car and makes the handling more symmetric in left and right turns. I also have the adjustable rear upper suspension links, and the car was aligned like this.
The car rides better, pretty tight, no body roll on the track.
I noticed that my new replacement rear shock is not the same as my other rear. For one it has 28 clicks. I can feel that setting 28 on the new shock is not the same as 14 on the old shock on the other side of the car.
The SPAX shocks are not for track driving, only street driving, maybe a little track.
If you want track shocks, buy the Carerras or something else made for that.
The Spax are pretty good as a replacement for the stock Lotus sourced Monroe shocks.
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
For the money they are ok, they do make a noticable difference in handling. I did have one rear shock leak a little after the car was off the ground for a while. I replaced it.
I have around 24,000 miles on my SPAX.
I set the fronts to 12 out of 14 clicks and the rears to 14 (the stiffest on my models).
I also have the left rear shock (USA driverside) set to 3mm taller than the other side to account for the lean of the car. This evens out the car and makes the handling more symmetric in left and right turns. I also have the adjustable rear upper suspension links, and the car was aligned like this.
The car rides better, pretty tight, no body roll on the track.
I noticed that my new replacement rear shock is not the same as my other rear. For one it has 28 clicks. I can feel that setting 28 on the new shock is not the same as 14 on the old shock on the other side of the car.
The SPAX shocks are not for track driving, only street driving, maybe a little track.
If you want track shocks, buy the Carerras or something else made for that.
The Spax are pretty good as a replacement for the stock Lotus sourced Monroe shocks.
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
lotusse89 said:
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
That's the best looking SE I've seen, and I hate Gray/Silver!
Luke.
Travis... How did you come up with the settings for your Spax shocks. I also have Spax shocks and know nothing about them. They were installed by the previous owner with the settings set to soft. Will the large adjusting rings lower the car. Mine seems to "wallow" a bit in the front. Not a clue where the adjusting screws are set. Thanks for the help.
Dave
90SE
Dave
90SE
dbebb55 said:
Travis... How did you come up with the settings for your Spax shocks. I also have Spax shocks and know nothing about them. They were installed by the previous owner with the settings set to soft. Will the large adjusting rings lower the car. Mine seems to "wallow" a bit in the front. Not a clue where the adjusting screws are set. Thanks for the help.
Dave
90SE
Dave,
The large locking rings do control ride height, however the SPAX shocks will not go any lower than 3mm above the stock Lotus ride height in the front. Kindof a problem... Some people remove one of the front locking rings to get to a correct 170mm ride height.
For the rear you could adjust the height, but why since the fronts won't go any lower. I did raise the driver side rear shock 3mm, since the car was leaning to that side (engine weight + driver weight).
I wanted a stiff ride, so I set the car to the stiffest settings that the SPAX would go to. I then did a local club's driving school, where I got to do a wet skid pad, an autocross, and a trackday. I felt the car was understeering a bit so I softened the front SPAX's 2 clicks to the 12th setting. This helped the understeer situation a bit.
Next I made my own rear upper links adjustable so that I could correct the camber, see my website. Then I had the car aligned for a little toe-out in the front (.1deg per side).
My car no longer understeers, it really grips in the front and just changes direction!!!
It doesn't wallow at all, infact there is no body roll.
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
karmavore said:
<a href="http://www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/">www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/</a>
That's the best looking SE I've seen, and I hate Gray/Silver!
Luke.
Luke,
Thanks! I really like the Vulcan Grey. It is very rare, I know of 5 in the world.
Travis
I would check out the QA1 motorsports product (bought out Carerra apparently) pricing is quite good and quality is excellent.
Fully adjustable spring perch coilovers.
UR-series with 12 pnt externally adjustable rebound damping.. Compression is tuned internally with valving changes.
DR-series with 12 pnt externally adjustable rebound and compression damping.
Both series are completely rebuildable.
Rear of Esprit with OE ride height takes DR or UR5855P1. 12-17" range of travel. If your car has different ride height, you can order longer or shorter versions
You will need to fabricate a simple adapter to mount them into the Esprit top mount.
OE springs (on the early 80s g-cars) have a rate of about 160lb. QA can supply a range of springs to suit your needs. If they dont have what you want, then other brands of spring will fit.
I can supply these. If you need more info, contact me by email.
Jan
>> Edited by f1karting on Friday 24th September 04:17
Fully adjustable spring perch coilovers.
UR-series with 12 pnt externally adjustable rebound damping.. Compression is tuned internally with valving changes.
DR-series with 12 pnt externally adjustable rebound and compression damping.
Both series are completely rebuildable.
Rear of Esprit with OE ride height takes DR or UR5855P1. 12-17" range of travel. If your car has different ride height, you can order longer or shorter versions
You will need to fabricate a simple adapter to mount them into the Esprit top mount.
OE springs (on the early 80s g-cars) have a rate of about 160lb. QA can supply a range of springs to suit your needs. If they dont have what you want, then other brands of spring will fit.
I can supply these. If you need more info, contact me by email.
Jan
>> Edited by f1karting on Friday 24th September 04:17
Phil Harbison's rear SPAX shock collapsed on his SE at LOG last week. Not good as Steve Smith (Newburrymess) noted you may want to talk to Phil.
If you are repalcing the shocks, you may want to look into new springs as well. The Esprit Sport 350 springs and shocks are an aggressive option that lower and stiffen the suspension.
Spring Rates for Various Esprit
Rating is in lb/inch and(N/mm)
F=Front
R=Rear
98 Esprit V8 GT,
F211(37) R245(43)
Esprit V8
F260(45) R250(44)
Esprit SE
F171(30) R154(27)
Sport 300
F313(55) R342(60)
Sport 350
F350(61) R314(55)
FINAL EDITION V8 (use adjustable Bilstein shocks)
F327(57) R316(55)
Just some FYI. I've heard it's been said by the guys at Lotus who did the set up for the Esprit suspension and I quote "Don't F... with our suspension" from guys who have built race cars and are known for some of the best handling cars on the planet. Maybe just sticking with the stock set up......
Mark Pfeffer
If you are repalcing the shocks, you may want to look into new springs as well. The Esprit Sport 350 springs and shocks are an aggressive option that lower and stiffen the suspension.
Spring Rates for Various Esprit
Rating is in lb/inch and(N/mm)
F=Front
R=Rear
98 Esprit V8 GT,
F211(37) R245(43)
Esprit V8
F260(45) R250(44)
Esprit SE
F171(30) R154(27)
Sport 300
F313(55) R342(60)
Sport 350
F350(61) R314(55)
FINAL EDITION V8 (use adjustable Bilstein shocks)
F327(57) R316(55)
Just some FYI. I've heard it's been said by the guys at Lotus who did the set up for the Esprit suspension and I quote "Don't F... with our suspension" from guys who have built race cars and are known for some of the best handling cars on the planet. Maybe just sticking with the stock set up......
Mark Pfeffer
Thanks for all the replies.
In the end I had a track day on the 20th and the SPAX shocks were the only ones I could get in time. I had a tough time at the track day but the instructors (all former race car drivers) did really well with my car.
One of them complained about the brakes but another one liked the brakes (*shrug*). Also my friend has chipped Ferrari 348 TS and the instructors still thought my essentially stock SE was faster in a straight line. I just have to learn how to turn better
In the end I had a track day on the 20th and the SPAX shocks were the only ones I could get in time. I had a tough time at the track day but the instructors (all former race car drivers) did really well with my car.
One of them complained about the brakes but another one liked the brakes (*shrug*). Also my friend has chipped Ferrari 348 TS and the instructors still thought my essentially stock SE was faster in a straight line. I just have to learn how to turn better
feffman said:
Just some FYI. I've heard it's been said by the guys at Lotus who did the set up for the Esprit suspension and I quote "Don't F... with our suspension" from guys who have built race cars and are known for some of the best handling cars on the planet. Maybe just sticking with the stock set up......
Hi Mark.. any idea why the spread in spring rates in the different models?
I am sure some of it has to do with the weight differences from one model to the next.. likely why the early g-cars only used 155R-125F.
The cars do all share the same basic chassis architecture, so I am curious to know the results of the various spring selections. Maybe it is that the guys at lotus f...ed with the suspension themselves in attempts to try and find the best combination that will work with the lotus' flexy chassis.. a suspension tuners nightmare.
I imagine that Lotus' primary goal has been to optimize their production setups for the average owner, with average driving skills, likely for everyday use on the average road, striking a balance between handling and comfort.
Perhaps what the lotus guy meant was that the "wrong" tweek would "unbalance" the cars handling. Track time and a stopwatch tells no lies.
just my 2-bits worth
Jan
Jan:
Not sure about why the spring rates changed between the cars other then weight changes from model to model. I know the Sport 350 is more aggressively sprung and has different shock rates as it's "track tuned". The Sport 350 alos has a heftier front sway bar.
I imagine the difference on the last (fianl edition) V8 had somethign to do with the Bilstein shocks and Eibach coil springs instead of the coil springs they had used.
I'm lookign into the Leda and Moton adjustable (seperate compression and rebound) systems but they are NOT inexpensive. Going to piddle with some other stuff first. Hyper-Sport has some trick suspension stuff I'd like to ad, particuarly a heim-joint to replace the rear lower trailing arm bushing and maybe their three-position adjustable front sway bar. Still waiting on pricing form them for all their stuff.
Mark Pfeffer
Not sure about why the spring rates changed between the cars other then weight changes from model to model. I know the Sport 350 is more aggressively sprung and has different shock rates as it's "track tuned". The Sport 350 alos has a heftier front sway bar.
I imagine the difference on the last (fianl edition) V8 had somethign to do with the Bilstein shocks and Eibach coil springs instead of the coil springs they had used.
I'm lookign into the Leda and Moton adjustable (seperate compression and rebound) systems but they are NOT inexpensive. Going to piddle with some other stuff first. Hyper-Sport has some trick suspension stuff I'd like to ad, particuarly a heim-joint to replace the rear lower trailing arm bushing and maybe their three-position adjustable front sway bar. Still waiting on pricing form them for all their stuff.
Mark Pfeffer
I bought the Spax shockas and springs from JAE.
Also, the Sport 350 sway bar.
Wrote a check for the parts in February.
I drove to LOG two weeks ago on my stock suspension. The shocks took a while to get here, the springs took forever...got here right before I went to the UK. Went to mount them in time for LOG...guess what, they had sent Elise springs to me. No good.
Currently waiting to see what JAE offers up in the line of refund or shop credit. I won't accept the springs, as my mechanic simply cut the stock ones and the car rides and handles fantastic now.
We're putting the SPAX and sway bar in soon (need bushings for the sway bar, it's not a direct replacement item).
I certainly hope my breaking silence doesn't jeapordize my getting a refund on my springs with JAE. Bottom line though, I paid for something in February, it's now about to tick into October, and I still don't have springs. I want my money back for those items. They should have seen the springs were wrong before they sent them to us. Their handling of the entire project has conastantly left me very wanting.
Just beware, if JAE tells you they have the springs ready to go as a kit with the shocks, they don't. Their entire shipment of springs were Elise springs. They now have to return them and get Esprit springs. Judging how long I've been sitting waiting for them, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Explore your options, that's all I'm saying.
Mike
Also, the Sport 350 sway bar.
Wrote a check for the parts in February.
I drove to LOG two weeks ago on my stock suspension. The shocks took a while to get here, the springs took forever...got here right before I went to the UK. Went to mount them in time for LOG...guess what, they had sent Elise springs to me. No good.
Currently waiting to see what JAE offers up in the line of refund or shop credit. I won't accept the springs, as my mechanic simply cut the stock ones and the car rides and handles fantastic now.
We're putting the SPAX and sway bar in soon (need bushings for the sway bar, it's not a direct replacement item).
I certainly hope my breaking silence doesn't jeapordize my getting a refund on my springs with JAE. Bottom line though, I paid for something in February, it's now about to tick into October, and I still don't have springs. I want my money back for those items. They should have seen the springs were wrong before they sent them to us. Their handling of the entire project has conastantly left me very wanting.
Just beware, if JAE tells you they have the springs ready to go as a kit with the shocks, they don't. Their entire shipment of springs were Elise springs. They now have to return them and get Esprit springs. Judging how long I've been sitting waiting for them, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Explore your options, that's all I'm saying.
Mike
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