How come almost all S3 Turbos...

[smash]

...have done around 50K miles! I swear to god it must be the most common mileage on an S3

Only making the observation because I still have an unscratched itch in relation to the G Esprit, ever since I backed out of buying one in 1987 (regretted to this day). I did have a look at one prior to my 916GT replica 2 years ago at an Essex specialist but it put me off because it was so dog eared. It reminded me just exactly how old they re now.

Anyway, despite that I'm back hankering again and it looks to me like £10k is needed to get a usable, clean example (with around 50,000 miles obviously) - does that sound reasonable as a budget?

[V8 FOU]

Buy on condition not mileage. £10K should buy a reasonable one - but always have it checked out by a proper specialist.
Also on the miles subject, and older car will generally be better for being used rather than being garaged / polished for its life....

[smash]

Are there any recommendations/anyone well regarded for inspection providers?

[V8 FOU]

Depends where you or the car are situated......

[smash]

Fair dos - I'm south east (essex) but no cars on horizon at present . . . I'll ask at the time

[Pat H]

I reckon that prices are all over the place at the moment.

Paul Matty has just sold my S3 HC Turbo for over £20k.

But it is near concours, has 32k on the clock and is white, which seems to make a big difference with G Esprits.

It also took me to Le Mans and back in 2010, so certainly wasn't a garage queen.

I hope that the new owner gets in touch, as it has been a labour of love for the past ten years.

Condition is certainly more important than miles. My Esprit was in far better condition at 32k than it was when I bought it with 21k on the clock.

But then again, there are plenty of absolutely shagged Esprits that have been worn out in less than 50k.

Ten grand should buy a reasonable S3 Turbo, but certainly not a minter.

They are also pretty hard to live with, demanding to drive and like lots of fettling. It really helps if you know how to use a spanner, otherwise you will soon fall out with one.

Radiators are a bh, gear linkages and crossgate cables are a bh, steering racks are a bh and petrol tanks are a bh.

I know this from personal experience, and they all needed doing before 30k.

Exhaust manifolds are reputedly a common problem and are a bh, though mine was fine.

Cambelt and tensioner is a bh, but I always let someone else do mine for me.

My clutch needed doing at 30k, which is about average for a Turbo Esprit.

By far and away the most hassle I had with mine was the pop up headlights. They were always playing up, but never cost more than £15 to fettle. Fuses, broken rotary links and constant adjusting.

I loved my Esprit so much that I have owned it twice. And I have no doubt that I will bitterly regret selling it again.

It has been an absolutely fantastic car, never let me down and always generated huge enthusiasm wherever it went.
I will miss it terribly.

[smash]

My god that is stunning! No wonder you were torn at selling it.

So, if I've read right, basically they're a bit of a bh! Not averse to spannerng (although it seems to be inversely proportional to age) but I don't want to be nervous in the car waiting for an "event" to happen - no joy in that.

Thing is I have never stopped kicking my ar$e for not buying that S1 in '87 - I must tick the box before I go. perhaps I should be looking to an N/A which seem to be less, er, "bhy" by all accounts Not sure I could live with 160hp though - sounds terrible I know because they are about SO much more than that but a car that looks so fine has to be able to dance a bit...

There's a turbo up local to me @ £10.5k (in PH classifieds) - not been to see it because I need to cash in some certificates - just seeing what's going on really. I'd agree though valuations don't seem to make any sense - wwell not to me at any rate - a few S3 NA way north of £10k that don't stack up in smash maths land.

I see there's an S3 with S4 running gear - IMHO those large rims make it sit way too high and tbh the arches just look too small for them. It doesn't look quite right and yet it can only be down to ride height and wheel size. Would it be significantly more reliable/less demanding do you think?

Edited by smash on Friday 24th August 19:33

Edited by smash on Friday 24th August 19:38

[Pat H]

smash said:

So, if I've read right, basically they're a bit of a bh! Not averse to spannerng (although it seems to be inversely proportional to age) but I don't want to be nervous in the car waiting for an "event" to happen - no joy in that.

I must admit that I was pretty twitchy on the Le Mans trip, but it never missed a beat. 1200 miles in four days, most of it over 80mph.

And over the better part of ten years, it never once left me at the side of the road. But they do feel fragile.

smash said:

Perhaps I should be looking to an N/A which seem to be less, er, "bhy" by all accounts Not sure I could live with 160hp though

They are pretty slow. But even the Turbo is hardly fast by modern standards. The very last NA S3s had the HC engine, which is about 10% more powerful. Rare, but worth seeking out.

I much prefer the style of the NA cars. All those skirts, spoilers and louvres detract from the beauty of the original G shape.

If I had my time over, I reckon that a 1986/87 S3 HC NA Esprit is the best compromise of reliability, performance and style. Compared to the prices that restored S1s are fetching, the NA S3 is something of a bargain at the moment.

[anonymous-user]

Pat H said:

smash said:

So, if I've read right, basically they're a bit of a bh! Not averse to spannerng (although it seems to be inversely proportional to age) but I don't want to be nervous in the car waiting for an "event" to happen - no joy in that.

I must admit that I was pretty twitchy on the Le Mans trip, but it never missed a beat. 1200 miles in four days, most of it over 80mph.

And over the better part of ten years, it never once left me at the side of the road. But they do feel fragile.

smash said:

Perhaps I should be looking to an N/A which seem to be less, er, "bhy" by all accounts Not sure I could live with 160hp though

They are pretty slow. But even the Turbo is hardly fast by modern standards. The very last NA S3s had the HC engine, which is about 10% more powerful. Rare, but worth seeking out.

I much prefer the style of the NA cars. All those skirts, spoilers and louvres detract from the beauty of the original G shape.

If I had my time over, I reckon that a 1986/87 S3 HC NA Esprit is the best compromise of reliability, performance and style. Compared to the prices that restored S1s are fetching, the NA S3 is something of a bargain at the moment.

I had access to a non h/c S3 for a few months and thought it was a lovely thing. If I had some spare cash sloshing around then an S3 with one of Mike Taylor's rebuilt, fuel injected engines shoved in the back would be pretty nice I reckon... http://www.lotusbits.com/upgrades_engine.html

[smash]

Are the Stephens Turbo SEs any less fragile or is it still the same issues under a different skin?

[Pat H]

They are fuel injected, so there are no carbs to go out of tune.

That said, I never had any carb issues.

Otherwise they're pretty similar. Apart from the Renault box, of course.

Personally much prefer the G cars, but that's just me.

[smash]

I agree - I prefer the G cars, it's just I'm tempted by say an Stevens SE because it offers such a performance hike and I suspect, pound for pound, I can get a better SE for the same money.

I wondered whether there was any way to retro the look of the Stevens to hint at the G style and mocked this up. The wheels are Lenso BSX which are off the shelf units (since found that you can get Dare DR RS very similar even cheaper - about £350 for 4 rims). Think it looks not too bad!