Thinking of buying skis this year...help!

[Hard-Drive]

Right then, just about to book our third skiing holiday, and after having got royally shafted on ski hire last year in Zermatt I was thinking about buying some. Problem is, I'm not too sure what I'm after, and whilst I could go to a shop and get some advice, I guess I'll always be buying what they happen to have in stock/want to shift, and I won't have anything to compare them to. I was thinking about buying online, and just wanted to see if there were any obvious dos or don'ts. Or if I go and buy the complete kit from a shop, will I be able to beat them down to online prices anyway?

Firstly…boots…don't worry, I will buy from a shop regardless as I know how critical it is to get the right fit.

I guess for the skis, bindings and poles I will try and draw a few cycling analogies! Retailers-in cycling people like Chain Reaction or Wiggle have the market pretty much sewn up and their prices are good…what's the ski equivalent?

What skis should I be going for? It will only be my third week this time but I've taken to skiing pretty well, and was skiing the blacks at Zermatt last year without too many issues (the only stuff I do struggle on is narrow runs, probably more a mental thing!) I don't want beginner skis, I want something that I can "grow" into, but I also want to spend a modest amount on the skis, as no doubt in a few years technology will have moved on again! Last year I had Volkl Race Tiger 173cms and I liked them. I mainly ski reds with some blacks, have gone off piste a teeny little bit, I prefer to go at a high number of leptons instead of getting all the style marks, and I'm not up to carving standard yet (it's happened a few times but more by luck than judgement!)

Also keen to avoid spending hard earned cash on the skiing equivalent of a Halfords Shockwave mountain bike…looks OK to the casual observer but woefully unfit for purpose!

There's also a slightly leftfield plan B. Another skier in my party and I were thinking of boarding this year, and by the looks of things getting sorted out with a plank is cheaper than skis. The savings could go towards some lessons at the Snowdome and perhaps some in the resort. I've had a little go and I enjoyed it…managed falling leaf on my heel edge pretty well but have not started linking turns or anything. Have any other reasonably competent skiers bit the bullet and spent a holiday learning to board and had a good experience, or has it just been frustrating as hell sat on your ass all the time whilst the skiers whizz around you? Also, we're going to Verbier this time, and it's got more draglifts than anything else, aren't these a PITA on a board?

Thanks in advance for your advice!

[Iain328]

Hard-Drive said:

Snip Skiery stuff

Bearing in mind most of the airlines are charging 30-50 quid to carry skis now & also that you probably need to get them serviced after every week of skiing (around 30-35 quid assuming you havn't damaged them) & I'm still unconvinced about the case for buying yr own skis. Especially if you only ski one to two weeks a year.

Aside from having to carry them through the airports, by the time you feel you have had your money back on them they will be "old hat" anyway.

Boots yes, always, but not necessarily skis.

That said, there are always people selling last year's skiis on E-bay.

If you do buy skiis, the temptation is often to buy the fastest, top of the range ski if you can afford it - but in reality you will need to be very good to get the most out of them & such skiis are often "too much" for intermediate skiers.

So buy something a little slower & a little softer & concentrate on building your technique until you feel the skiis are holding you back - then buy something better.

Edited by Iain328 on Sunday 15th November 23:43

[Greenie]

Wot he said. There is no financial reason to buy skis if you are only going 1-2 weeks a year.

That said I'm going to buy my own board this year just because I want to! But it won't work out cheaper.

[W00DY]

Agrred with the other 2. Look at reviews for the resorts your going to, find the best shop and look for the best deal (forums like snowheads and j2ski useful for this but not much else). Airline costs aren't far off hiring a very decent pair of skis before even factoring in the cost. A good shop will also allow for greater flexibility, supposedly on my uni trip i should be able to choose my skis (alweys have done before) and have been able to swap them e.g something a bit fatter for powder days or getting a board for a day has never cost me anything. The biggest plus for me is also the fact i'm not so precious as i would be with my own.

[theboymoon]

boarding! Skiing is more fun

Seriously, agree with the others, if its a couple of trips a year then you'd probably have less faff and more fun hiring 'new' skis each season than karting your own kit around.

As you mention, boots are crucial. I'd happily go somewhere and ski without my planks but not without boots.

If you do want to go down the purchasing route, drop me a pm if you would like some help.

I like skis. A lot. Currently have in the quivver, Volkl mantra's, Volkl Karma's, Rossi Scratch BC's and a pair of Dynaster Mythic Riders. (quite an offpiste focus you'll notice!)

This is a pic of moon's spare room circa 2006... (the board AINT mine!)

[Marcellus]

My advice Hard-drive is DON'T...

My thoughts are;
> 3 weeks in,
> don't like narrow,
> don't carve,
> won't save you money,
> prefers speed,
> not interested in style,

From that I've built a mental picture but can I ask; Ok you can get down blacks but don't really go off piste... how are you on moguls?

If my mental image is correct I honestly wouldn't know what to recommend you (and neither would anyone really) to buy and grow into....

My advice would be to rent your skis on line before you go, there are deals to be done. DOn't go for the cheapest nor the most expensive but a nice mid range 100% piste ski or a heavily piste biased ski.

(This is said by a bloke who has a ski locker much like TBMs but not so off piste biased!!)

[taaffy]

Hmmmmmm......

1) By far the most important thing you need to do is get well fitted boots,otherwise it won't matter what ski's you have,sore feet are no fun.

2) If u are intent on buying ski's then do it in resort. Any reputable shop will allow u to try many different pairs before parting with any cash and that way u find ski's to fit your ability. If u buy in the UK based on reviews or colour or graphics cos they look nice then u will most probably buy the wrong ski's for your ability level.If they are too stiff then u will struggle.

3) If from what u have said that u don't carve or like narrow tracks and like to go at warp speed everywhere then u really need to refine your technique to have far more control in the mountains.By doing this u will get maximum enjoyment from any ski's u do buy. The mountains are a dangerous place and u need to be in complete control. This is paramount the steeper the slope u attempt to negotiate......getting wiped out by an out of control adult skier on a red or black usually ends up in a hospital visit for someone.

Personally after spending £££££££ on numerous pairs of new skis over the past 20 years I now hire as u can get the most up do date equipment every year.....u don't have to lug it around or wait for it at baggage reclaim and if u don't like them u just take them back and try another pair. Works for me and if they get damaged or skied over then I'm not that bothered.

Oh and welcome to skiers world a fab place to be especially at this time of year...snows already falling.

Edited by taaffy on Sunday 15th November 12:34

[Hard-Drive]

Thanks for the advice all!

Just to set the record straight, I don't go hammering around everywhere out of control and nothing annoys me more than others doing it! All I'm saying is at the moment, I'll have a bigger grin on my face at the end of the day if I've had a good blast down a nice wide red and kept up (in control) with my more experienced mates rather than planting a pole every 15 feet. I guess I've got to the point that I can relax and enjoy it and not have to think about it too hard and actually enjoy the holiday, although obviously I want to progress and sort the style and the carves out with some more lessons before I get into too many bad habits!

But back on topic, you're absolutely right, buying kit would cost a lot more than I first thought and I agree it makes no sense for me at the moment. But I may well buy my own boots as I can see the point in that, let's face it they don't take long sorting boots out for you at the hire shop!

[Iain328]

Hard-Drive said:

Thanks for the advice all!

Just to set the record straight, I don't go hammering around everywhere out of control and nothing annoys me more than others doing it! All I'm saying is at the moment, I'll have a bigger grin on my face at the end of the day if I've had a good blast down a nice wide red and kept up (in control) with my more experienced mates rather than planting a pole every 15 feet. I guess I've got to the point that I can relax and enjoy it and not have to think about it too hard and actually enjoy the holiday, although obviously I want to progress and sort the style and the carves out with some more lessons before I get into too many bad habits!

But back on topic, you're absolutely right, buying kit would cost a lot more than I first thought and I agree it makes no sense for me at the moment. But I may well buy my own boots as I can see the point in that, let's face it they don't take long sorting boots out for you at the hire shop!

A good fitting, comfortable pair of boots will make a great deal of difference to your skiing. It also means you arn't, in effect, putting on someone elses old sweaty socks !

Again, do not be tempted to buy the highest spec or "race" boots. As a good intermediate you still need boots with a little bit of "give" in them. As with shoes, some brands of boots are wider or narrower than others in the same size, so do your reasearch. If you buy them in resort then, if needs be, they can stretch the shells etc for you and add extra padding where needed till they fit just right and it will usually be free. Best to buy from a shop reasonably close to the lift if you can - but have a wander round & check prices in resort first.

If you buy boots in the UK & try & get them adjusted in resort then it will cost you - quite a lot!

Edited by Iain328 on Sunday 15th November 23:44

[Marcellus]

For boots make sure you go to a "respected" boot fitter not just somewhere that sells boots.

Depending where you are the the midlands there's a place in Bicester and one In Coventry that people really rate...

[Iain328]

Marcellus said:

For boots make sure you go to a "respected" boot fitter not just somewhere that sells boots.

Depending where you are the the midlands there's a place in Bicester and one In Coventry that people really rate...

Better to buy in resort......

[Marcellus]

Iain328 said:

Marcellus said:

For boots make sure you go to a "respected" boot fitter not just somewhere that sells boots.

Depending where you are the the midlands there's a place in Bicester and one In Coventry that people really rate...

Better to buy in resort......

There are probably a few resorts where this is so, of the 1000s of resorts out there!!

You may disagree but how many "resident locals" buy their boots in resort? and bear in mind a lot will be able to get them in resort at close to cost price which will be a damn sight cheaper than going to a decent boot fitter.

Most ski shops in resort will happily "sell you some boots" they might even "sell you some conformables" to help get a better fit if they really get it wrong they might "heat 'n' blow them for you". Few have the time or knowledge to invest in your feet.

[taaffy]

Marcellus said:

Iain328 said:

Marcellus said:

For boots make sure you go to a "respected" boot fitter not just somewhere that sells boots.

Depending where you are the the midlands there's a place in Bicester and one In Coventry that people really rate...

Better to buy in resort......

There are probably a few resorts where this is so, of the 1000s of resorts out there!!

You may disagree but how many "resident locals" buy their boots in resort? and bear in mind a lot will be able to get them in resort at close to cost price which will be a damn sight cheaper than going to a decent boot fitter.

Most ski shops in resort will happily "sell you some boots" they might even "sell you some conformables" to help get a better fit if they really get it wrong they might "heat 'n' blow them for you". Few have the time or knowledge to invest in your feet.

If u can make the journey to London this company provide 1st class service....

http://www.profeet.co.uk/ski_index.asp

Had my current boots fitted there and they have been perfect. I found out about them in Courchevel a few years ago. Bought my previous pair from snow and rock and had nothing but trouble with them.

[a_bread]

Hard-Drive said:

Volkl Race Tiger 173cms and I liked them.

These are exceptionally fine skis...

Hard-Drive said:

and I'm not up to carving standard yet (it's happened a few times but more by luck than judgement!)

...but it sounds to me as if such skis will not be getting used to their full potential in your case. Not yet anyway. Well done for making good progress in a couple of weeks of skiing. To see someone mention pole-plants at an early stage is a good sign for you as it's surprising how many people are totally ignorant of them early on. The fact you are thinking about buying skis shows you are well on the way to becoming an enthusiast who wants to become really good.

However, these Racetigers are relatively unforgiving skis that need to be nicely loaded up in a turn and "driven". The fact that you are unable to carve intentionally and consistently implies that there is far more to be learned before you will appreciate the advantages of such skis. Shooting too high in terms of the standard of the skis relative to your technique will prove less rewarding, potentially frustrating/dangerous and can be counter-productive. Full marks for not letting it reduce your apparent enthusiasm for skiing but I suspect you'd find a more mainstream recreational ski more appropriate at this stage ... and there are a lot of those to choose from.

Fitting your skiing style around the fact you want to keep up with your more advanced mates (if that's what you're doing) is not necessarily the way to make the best progress. Slowing things down, working meticulously on technique and then regaining the pace with that improved technique, can really help. All-male skiing can become a bit of a testosterone-fuelled experience and this isn't necessarily productive territory for becoming a technically good skier.

If you are going to buy, I would strongly suggest you try out quite a few pairs of skis. What sort of skis will work for you depends on numerous things about you and your skiing - your height, weight, ability and style of skiing, what sort of terrain you prefer to ski on, etc, and even then there are numerous other variables and personal subjectivity which mean that there is no substitute for skiing these skis, and skiing several pairs back to back. And do this on familiar terrain, with boots you've already been skiing in for some time and which are thoroughly well suited to you. Then you will come away with answers as to what is the right ski for you.

However at the moment I think it's unlikely that you have got to the right place on boots. Even if you have bought your own, you are at an early stage in skiing and are either skiing in a boot that is too comfortable (i.e. not a very direct link in the communication chain between skier and ski) and which you are outgrowing rapidly in terms of technique, or you are still in the process of skiing up into a boot that was initially too advanced. At the moment therefore I'd focus on getting the boots right and skiing on a variety of different hired skis.

Ski up into the standard of a reasonably advanced/high boot that's just slightly ahead of your abilities at the outset but not too much. A lot of thought should go into this - but it's probably too lengthy to go into it here. Get to the stage where your skiing is good enough to justify stiffening up the flex and increasing the lean angle of the cuff, both of which adjustments force you into an aggressive over the front of the skis stance (if you buy a high stiff boot with an already sharp forward lean angle then it will actually screw up your progress big time if you are not ready for it). When you are at that stage, having continued to try out various different rental skis, you will probably be starting to appreciate what really good skis are all about and be in a better position to buy some.

With boots there is a reverse trade-off between comfort and control. More of one means less of the other. The more difficult the runs you are skiing, the more you need the skis to go EXACTLY where you want them to. Near is not good enough. If you were to wear "comfortable" boots this would not be possible. Boots that fit your feet yes, but soft and accommodating, no. Some salespeople trying to sell you boots will tell you "these days all boots are comfortable, even advanced racing boots". Do not listen. If you see people who never loosen any of the buckles on their boots all day long, on lifts / at lunch etc, they are skiing in comfortable boots (i.e. squidgy boots that offer low levels of communicative directness). Fine, unless you actually aspire to be a really good skier.

Sorry for the long winded reply (work is slow). Looking back over all those words I'd have to say my main point is: get the boots right first! And while you are doing that, focus on technique, not speed. The speed will come...

Edited by a_bread on Tuesday 17th November 12:16

[Hard-Drive]

Guys, thanks again for all the advice, and especially a_bread for such a long and enlightening reply. Boots it is then, and skis can wait. Perhaps I'll really try and work at my technique this year once the basics have come back, and even see if there's an option to try different skis from the hire shop in Verbier at the end of the week to see if I can spot any differences.

I've heard good things about Lockwoods in Leamington which is my nearest place...any feedback? Otherwise it would be Ellis Brigham at the XScape in MK.

Here's me trying my first bit of off-piste, halfway through my second week of skiing. As I said, no points for style!!!!

(ETA...lid is also on the shopping list for this year!)

Edited by Hard-Drive on Tuesday 17th November 23:17

[Marcellus]

Hard-Drive said:

I've heard good things about Lockwoods in Leamington

Yes, yes yes and a thousand yes's (with a few more for luck).

I know ex-pats who live out here to build their whole trip home around going and seeing the guys at Lockwoods for their new boots.

IIRC it's not a "turn up and buy" you need to book a fitting.

Let us know how you get on..

[taaffy]

Hard-Drive said:

Here's me trying my first bit of off-piste, halfway through my second week of skiing. As I said, no points for style!!!!

(ETA...lid is also on the shopping list for this year!)

Edited by Hard-Drive on Tuesday 17th November 23:17

Pow = skiing nirvana ......a good lid is a pre-requisite for off piste.

[Marcellus]

Agree helmet is essential for both on and off piste imo... (especially given your stated preferences and abilities).


(BTW if you can lose the rucksack.. it will help with your balance and posture)

[chrisga]

Yep, Lockwoods. Definitely. We were in ellis brigham in the snowdome in mk yesterday and they just didnt seem to be spending as much time and effort fitting people out as they do in Lockwoods. And dont just buy because you like the colour. Be totally honest with the fitter in Lockwoods about your ability and you'll get the best fitting boot for your feet and the right boot for your ability. As someone else said let us know how you get on.

[Dakkon]

In my personal experience Volkl's tend to keep their edges better than a lot of other ski's.

But as other have said, if you want your own kit, spend some time getting a a pair of really decent fitting boots.