Best sport as grounding for MMA?

[Lost_BMW]

As per the title - what are folks' opinions on the best sport/ background for MMA, even 'self-defence'?

Not just an musing "interest" thread, though it does intrigue me, but I'm wondering what to encourage my two kids to take up - boxing, karate or freestyle wrestling (live near one of Britain's best schools) or . . ?

[Airbag]

Self defense- Krav Maga
MMA- jujitsu or muay thai
impressing the ladies- thai bo

[Fittster]

Airbag said:

Self defense- Krav Maga
MMA- jujitsu or muay thai
impressing the ladies- thai bo

So thai bo it is.

[ofcorsa]

IMO wrestling, But its far easier to find a good boxing gym than it is to find a good wrestling, Hell in my youth i went to pro wrassling camps to get wrestling experience

[Animal]

Krav Maga would be a terrible grounding for MMA! I was talking about this at the weekend: my Krav training has been entirely centred around using KM as a last resort, and as such anything goes.

What's the point in learning about eye-gouging, headbutting, elbow and small joint manupulation when none of it is useful to an MMA fight?

How about Brazilian Ju Jitsu?

[Airbag]

Animal said:

Krav Maga would be a terrible grounding for MMA! I was talking about this at the weekend: my Krav training has been entirely centred around using KM as a last resort, and as such anything goes.

What's the point in learning about eye-gouging, headbutting, elbow and small joint manupulation when none of it is useful to an MMA fight?

How about Brazilian Ju Jitsu?

Specsavers?

[Lost_BMW]

Airbag said:

Self defense- Krav Maga
MMA- jujitsu or muay thai
impressing the ladies- thai bo

Looked up the local thai boo school. . . for me, kids aren't bothered about that yet, at 4 1/2!

Couldn't find one though, shame.

[Lost_BMW]

ofcorsa said:

IMO wrestling, But its far easier to find a good boxing gym than it is to find a good wrestling, Hell in my youth i went to pro wrassling camps to get wrestling experience

My first thoughts were boxing as that was the main thing I did - some judo as a very young kid because my dad was into it (his hero was a dutch champion called Geesink - then boxing as he'd done that in the army. Also did a few years of Wado Ryu at the same time but boxing was what stuck.

But watching MMA for the past few years it seems like the best grounding is wrestling, just looking at how many top fighters have been wrestlers at school/college or at least done it at a decent level alongside something else - even strikers like Chuck Lidell, as part of their armoury. Heard Joe Rogan say again during UFC 104 that it was the best base.

Best of all, having spent ages looking unsuccessfully for schools on the web and finding very little, I was browsing an MMA site and subliminally caught in the corner of my eye a small reference in a ticker tape type box, went back thinking I'd imagined it and lo and behold it was about a school competing abroad but based 2 miles away!

Plus my wife is dead against them boxing - though I've managed to get one of the two into it already! He looks like a natural with his style which would be good as he's pretty thin in build. His brother doesn't have the same flair but is much heavier built and strong so wrestling might be more his thing?

[Ed]

Given MMA boils down largely to a stand and strike phase, take down and then submission, ground phase I'd say Thai Kickboxing, rugby and jiujitsu

[ofcorsa]

Lost_BMW said:

ofcorsa said:

IMO wrestling, But its far easier to find a good boxing gym than it is to find a good wrestling, Hell in my youth i went to pro wrassling camps to get wrestling experience

My first thoughts were boxing as that was the main thing I did - some judo as a very young kid because my dad was into it (his hero was a dutch champion called Geesink - then boxing as he'd done that in the army. Also did a few years of Wado Ryu at the same time but boxing was what stuck.

But watching MMA for the past few years it seems like the best grounding is wrestling, just looking at how many top fighters have been wrestlers at school/college or at least done it at a decent level alongside something else - even strikers like Chuck Lidell, as part of their armoury. Heard Joe Rogan say again during UFC 104 that it was the best base.

Best of all, having spent ages looking unsuccessfully for schools on the web and finding very little, I was browsing an MMA site and subliminally caught in the corner of my eye a small reference in a ticker tape type box, went back thinking I'd imagined it and lo and behold it was about a school competing abroad but based 2 miles away!

Plus my wife is dead against them boxing - though I've managed to get one of the two into it already! He looks like a natural with his style which would be good as he's pretty thin in build. His brother doesn't have the same flair but is much heavier built and strong so wrestling might be more his thing?

Very good point, Its also easier to train wrestling arts if you have to work and dont relish the idea of going into work looking banged up, Thing is Britain has a a great wealth of boxing experience, But if your lucky enough to have a dedicated MMA gym that is the best option, I trained 4 years trying to put all the arts togethe before i found an MMA gym, Unlearning the bad habits was difficult in itself.

Another thing to bear in mind is that MMA is a relatively new style of fighting compared to other sports and still goes through transitions, Early UFC favored grapplers, then wrestlers learnt to nuetralise this, Now it seems striking is becoming more dominant, If you want to learn an art as a solid base i would say chose one that compliments your body type/mind set. Then that way even if you dont become the next sakuraba, least you will have fun

[Halb]

Lost_BMW said:

As per the title - what are folks' opinions on the best sport/ background for MMA, even 'self-defence'?

Not just an musing "interest" thread, though it does intrigue me, but I'm wondering what to encourage my two kids to take up - boxing, karate or freestyle wrestling (live near one of Britain's best schools) or . . ?

I would say Lancashire wrestling as the base. Then add a striking one.

[Don1]

Being in MMA myself, my grounding is Judo, Rugby and Thai/American Kickboxing.

HTH

[Carlito caca]

Wrestling looks like the way to go, muay Thai as a striking style perhaps? Be easier to find a good boxing gym though

[Lost_BMW]

ofcorsa said:

Very good point, Its also easier to train wrestling arts if you have to work and dont relish the idea of going into work looking banged up, Thing is Britain has a a great wealth of boxing experience, But if your lucky enough to have a dedicated MMA gym that is the best option, I trained 4 years trying to put all the arts togethe before i found an MMA gym, Unlearning the bad habits was difficult in itself.

Another thing to bear in mind is that MMA is a relatively new style of fighting compared to other sports and still goes through transitions, Early UFC favored grapplers, then wrestlers learnt to nuetralise this, Now it seems striking is becoming more dominant, If you want to learn an art as a solid base i would say chose one that compliments your body type/mind set. Then that way even if you dont become the next sakuraba, least you will have fun

From an interest point of view I'm still fascinated, given I used to know nothing about it and never did any, to see how many top level fighters are either directly from a wrestling background or have done it seriously as part of their development. Even many of the good strikers seem to be wrestlers/have trained in it - Henderson, Jackson, Johnson, Lidell, Carwin and on and on . .

Then there's Hughes, Sherk, Sevenson, Coleman, Kerr et al who aren't great at 'stand-up' but do well anyway because of their strength and ability to take people down or make the strikers so wary of being taken down they are on the back foot and don't live up to their ability.

How do others rate it purely as a starting point for MMA/ think it has been the best grounding for today's best or up and coming fighters?

Even though a lot of fights now do seem to be turned more by strikes than the other aspects it still seems a really good base plus I reckon it could be useful for self defense if they could go under a (usually wild) punch from, say, some drunk and take the assailant down, control them, bang them out once down etc. There are quite a few boxing gyms around here plus a good MMA gym that has a lot of facilities but luckily also one of the rare (and it seems a really successful) Greco-Roman Wrestling School only 2 miles from us.

I'm thinking that I could get them to try out the MMA school - they do a Little Ninjas type thing - when they hit 5 next year and then add the wrestling the year after, for which they need to be 6. Not that I have any ambitions for them to be 'cage fighters' but do want them to be fit, confident and motivated in the way physical stuff promotes - I do not want two Nintendo toting couch potatoes!

Edited by Lost_BMW on Sunday 1st November 22:56

[XitUp]

Wrestling is probably the best base. You get to control where the fight takes place if you're a good wrestler. If the guy is a better striker than you, take him down. If the guy has great subs, keep it standing.

Having said that, no serious MMA athletes these days don't train all aspects of the game.You need to be well rounded now.

Lost_BMW said:

From an interest point of view I'm still fascinated, given I used to know nothing about it and never did any, to see how many top level fighters are either directly from a wrestling background or have done it seriously as part of their development. Even many of the good strikers seem to be wrestlers/have trained in it - Henderson, Jackson, Johnson, Lidell, Carwin and on and on . .

Hendo and Carwin are not really good strikers. Carwin has big power and Hendo has a big right hand and not much else.

Lost_BMW said:

Even though a lot of fights now do seem to be turned more by strikes than the other aspects it still seems a really good base plus I reckon it could be useful for self defense if they could go under a (usually wild) punch from, say, some drunk and take the assailant down, control them, bang them out once down etc. There are quite a few boxing gyms around here plus a good MMA gym that has a lot of facilities but luckily also one of the rare (and it seems a really successful) Greco-Roman Wrestling School only 2 miles from us.

Taking someone down in a street fight is a terrible idea. In the ring you don't have three of their mates stamping on your head.

[deevlash]

XitUp said:

Taking someone down in a street fight is a terrible idea. In the ring you don't have three of their mates stamping on your head.

figting more than one person is always a terrible idea! One on one though, taking them down works damn well, not with a crappy double leg though

Judo (what I do) is a pretty good base for mma, it teaches you good stand up grappling and body positioning aswell as transitions to the ground. Once its on the ground the most of the techniques you do there are the same as BJJ, a gogoplata is just called kagatojime and a triangle is sangakujime for example. Judo isnt focused on getting the submission however as its essentially a sport but it is a good base.

Wrestling is overrated as a base for mma, the reason theres so many successful wrestlers in mma is the fact theres so many of them and the fact the UFC is based in the states. Wrestling on its own is really good but it wont teach you any subs or strikes and in the UK theres no real wrestling scene, certainly not anywhere near the scale of Judo or possibly even BJJ.

Edited by deevlash on Sunday 1st November 14:20

[XitUp]

I think you're wrong about wrestling being over rated for MMA. I'm not really a big fan of it, much rather see some swanky judo throws, but it is effective.

As for judokas, lots of people seem to have trouble with the transition to a sport with no gi. But no gi jitz/sub grappling has developed over the years and I can see the same happening with judo, using collar ties/overhooks instead of grabbing the gi etc. Have you got Kayro Parisian's judo for mma DVD? I downloaded it and it's got some pretty interesting stuff.

[deevlash]

I dont, I keep meaning to have a look at it at some point. Judo is underdeveloped for mma so far, the folk using it have usually been older judokas at the end of their careers, yoshida etc. It'll be interseting to see how Ishii does, being only 22 and at the top of his game. Akiyama has done very well too actually.

[deevlash]

XitUp said:

I think you're wrong about wrestling being over rated for MMA. I'm not really a big fan of it, much rather see some swanky judo throws, but it is effective.

I dont mean that its not a great base for mma, I just think that the usual acceptance that its the best base isnt really true and its just been successful due to there being so many people coming from wrestling in the UFC. Pride wasnt nearly so wrestler dominated, the greatest fighter of all time is a sambo fighter which is another base thats overlooked due to the lack of clubs outwith Russia, combat sambo is more or less mma anyway.

[XitUp]

deevlash said:

XitUp said:

I think you're wrong about wrestling being over rated for MMA. I'm not really a big fan of it, much rather see some swanky judo throws, but it is effective.

I dont mean that its not a great base for mma, I just think that the usual acceptance that its the best base isnt really true and its just been successful due to there being so many people coming from wrestling in the UFC. Pride wasnt nearly so wrestler dominated, the greatest fighter of all time is a sambo fighter which is another base thats overlooked due to the lack of clubs outwith Russia, combat sambo is more or less mma anyway.

That's true. I think wrestling becomes a lot less powerful in a ring rather than a cage. That's why I prefer the ring, no clinching against the fence for ages.

I think Fedor is an anomaly and you can't really use him as an example of sambo fighters as he is so much better than anyone else.

I'm really interested in seeing how well Ishii can do in MMA.