Flintoff Injured?

[pkitchen]

Ok so he plays a couple of games and his knee lets him down again. He is a key part of the squad, going to get more difficult if he can't play. Harmy as a replacemnet doesnt help our batting lineup

[Aussies5-Poms 0]

|I hope he's fit to play - it will be a better match with him trying to take wickets with nostalgia.

What was his return in Cardiff? 1-100+ wasn't it?

[pkitchen]

Aussies5-Poms 0 said:

I hope he's fit to play - it will be a better match with him trying to take wickets with nostalgia.

What was his return in Cardiff? 1-100+ wasn't it?

Nothing nostalgic about Flintoff he is a class act and that track in Cardiff was crap. We gave up our wickets to you,that was really frustrating. Don't rate your attack particularly, but let's see how we get on at Lords on a proper cricket wicket lol.

[pkitchen]

satch said:

i would thought hoggard stood just as good a chance, he's taking wickets.

fred was a calculated risk, not had enough cricket for me.

hoggy has played well in last few county games - i'd prefer him to moody steve any day tbh.

spirit of 2005

Satch, I can't get excited about Hoggy his time is past. If we want his type of bowler then Onions is the new kid on the block. Reality is we don't have a strike bowler if you lose Fred, and we need one which is why Harmison has come back into the frame. Hobsons choice eh boys.....

[Wildsea]

Just heard a rumour that Freddy may be retireing from test cricket at the end of the Ashes. He will concentrate on 20/20 (in other words turn up for the IPL and get paid a million pounds.) Just a rumour as yet, but would make sense...

[pkitchen]

Wildsea said:

Just heard a rumour that Freddy may be retireing from test cricket at the end of the Ashes. He will concentrate on 20/20 (in other words turn up for the IPL and get paid a million pounds.) Just a rumour as yet, but would make sense...

Body is knackered by the looks of it, 20*20 is all he can cope with. If that's true it's a great shame..... Let's wait and see but I hope it's not true. We certainly need him firing for the Ashes, on the right track he can have them hopping around, ask Mr Hughes

[Aussies5-Poms 0]

pkitchen said:

Aussies5-Poms 0 said:

I hope he's fit to play - it will be a better match with him trying to take wickets with nostalgia.

What was his return in Cardiff? 1-100+ wasn't it?

Nothing nostalgic about Flintoff he is a class act and that track in Cardiff was crap. We gave up our wickets to you,that was really frustrating. Don't rate your attack particularly, but let's see how we get on at Lords on a proper cricket wicket lol.

He definitely has something about him - but my point was that too many supporters are looking back to 2005 - that was a freak performance by all your bowlers. They bowled reversse swing very early in each innings, and all bowled at a level far far beyond anyone's expectations. They haven't bowled that well since and never will.

Similalry, it isn;t liekly that 4 aussies will make hundreds in the first innigs at Lords.

I don't agree re: the aussie bowlers. On a flat wicket they got 19 wickets in 7 sessions. Hilfenhaus and Siddle swung the ball, Hauritz bowled well too. If Johnson could sort his ball release out, we'd be pretty decent - he bowled really poorly.

[pkitchen]

Aussies5-Poms 0 said:

pkitchen said:

Aussies5-Poms 0 said:

I hope he's fit to play - it will be a better match with him trying to take wickets with nostalgia.

What was his return in Cardiff? 1-100+ wasn't it?

Nothing nostalgic about Flintoff he is a class act and that track in Cardiff was crap. We gave up our wickets to you,that was really frustrating. Don't rate your attack particularly, but let's see how we get on at Lords on a proper cricket wicket lol.

He definitely has something about him - but my point was that too many supporters are looking back to 2005 - that was a freak performance by all your bowlers. They bowled reversse swing very early in each innings, and all bowled at a level far far beyond anyone's expectations. They haven't bowled that well since and never will.

Similalry, it isn;t liekly that 4 aussies will make hundreds in the first innigs at Lords.

I don't agree re: the aussie bowlers. On a flat wicket they got 19 wickets in 7 sessions. Hilfenhaus and Siddle swung the ball, Hauritz bowled well too. If Johnson could sort his ball release out, we'd be pretty decent - he bowled really poorly.

I remain to be convinced re your attack, our top order batting was crap. Your boys batted well. As I say I think Lords will be a more balanced test of the two attacks on a better cricket wicket. However if Fred is injured then it swings it more in your favour. Lets hope not

[Aussies5-Poms 0]

pkitchen said:

Aussies5-Poms 0 said:

pkitchen said:

Aussies5-Poms 0 said:

I hope he's fit to play - it will be a better match with him trying to take wickets with nostalgia.

What was his return in Cardiff? 1-100+ wasn't it?

Nothing nostalgic about Flintoff he is a class act and that track in Cardiff was crap. We gave up our wickets to you,that was really frustrating. Don't rate your attack particularly, but let's see how we get on at Lords on a proper cricket wicket lol.

He definitely has something about him - but my point was that too many supporters are looking back to 2005 - that was a freak performance by all your bowlers. They bowled reversse swing very early in each innings, and all bowled at a level far far beyond anyone's expectations. They haven't bowled that well since and never will.

Similalry, it isn;t liekly that 4 aussies will make hundreds in the first innigs at Lords.

I don't agree re: the aussie bowlers. On a flat wicket they got 19 wickets in 7 sessions. Hilfenhaus and Siddle swung the ball, Hauritz bowled well too. If Johnson could sort his ball release out, we'd be pretty decent - he bowled really poorly.

I remain to be convinced re your attack, our top order batting was crap. Your boys batted well. As I say I think Lords will be a more balanced test of the two attacks on a better cricket wicket. However if Fred is injured then it swings it more in your favour. Lets hope not

I think Lords will help your top order immeasurably. They all like to play shots - often with a non-straight bat. The slow pace at Cardiff really made this difficult.

If Lords comes onto the bat, Strauss, Cook, Bopara, & KP will all be free to play 'one day cricket' and will put on some runs.

I don't think it will help our guys much, even though they will prefer the ball coming on it will bridge the mental gap that exists between our test batsmen and your one day batsmen.

[pkitchen]

I think Lords will help your top order immeasurably. They all like to play shots - often with a non-straight bat. The slow pace at Cardiff really made this difficult.

If Lords comes onto the bat, Strauss, Cook, Bopara, & KP will all be free to play 'one day cricket' and will put on some runs.

I don't think it will help our guys much, even though they will prefer the ball coming on it will bridge the mental gap that exists between our test batsmen and your one day batsmen.
[/quote]

You hit the nail on the head. We do have too many one day batsmen and apart from Colly nobody who wants to bat long and go to a big score. This is Test cricket and we seem to be suffering more than your guys with this one day syndrome. Not sure why that is?? Having said that judgement, playing the ball on its merit also must come into play and not giving your bloody wicket away easily. Not getting to 30/40/50 and thinking its enough. I get more pissed off when they do that than when they get out early tbh. We did that consistently in the first innings in Cardiff. Currently Bopara/Pietersen/Prior/Flintoff are all in that one day mould. Big weakness in my opinion. Not much glue in that lot

Edited by pkitchen on Tuesday 14th July 10:18

[Aussies5-Poms 0]

pkitchen said:

I think Lords will help your top order immeasurably. They all like to play shots - often with a non-straight bat. The slow pace at Cardiff really made this difficult.

If Lords comes onto the bat, Strauss, Cook, Bopara, & KP will all be free to play 'one day cricket' and will put on some runs.

I don't think it will help our guys much, even though they will prefer the ball coming on it will bridge the mental gap that exists between our test batsmen and your one day batsmen.

You hit the nail on the head. We do have too many one day batsmen and apart from Colly nobody who wants to bat long and go to a big score. This is Test cricket and we seem to be suffering more than your guys with this one day syndrome. Not sure why that is?? Having said that judgement, playing the ball on its merit also must come into play and not giving your bloody wicket away easily. Not getting to 30/40/50 and thinking its enough. I get more pissed off when they do that than when they get out early tbh. We did that consistently in the first innings in Cardiff. Currently Bopara/Pietersen/Prior/Flintoff are all in that one day mould. Big weakness in my opinion. Not much glue in that lot

Edited by pkitchen on Tuesday 14th July 10:18

On the one hand, our boys are under less outside pressure form the press - but the pressure on them to perform is immense - losing to England is just beyond the contemplation of Australian cricketers for the last 20 odd years - you can see this in the reaction to the events of 2005.

Aussie batsmen realise also that there are a few Husseys, Hughes and Pontings scorign a million runs is 'Sheffield Shield' and county cricket and nobody is undroppable.

The English team, by contrast, don't quite seem to have the mind set to grind out long innings. I'm sure it will change though, as was said on another thread- it is not a technique problem. My only concern if I was a Pommie supporter is that technique can sometimes be fixed more easily than psyche.

[Wildsea]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/8151402.st...

A huge blow to English Cricket. He was one of the most exciting English players to watch IMO

Edited by Wildsea on Wednesday 15th July 11:20

[pkitchen]

Wildsea said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/8151402.st...

A huge blow to English Cricket. He was one of the most exciting English players to watch IMO

Edited by Wildsea on Wednesday 15th July 11:20

Agree. Lets hope he can play some further part in this series, but I am not hopeful, he obviously has difficulty getting through 5 days. He deserves to finish on a high. Major boost to the Aussies though if he can't. Looks like Harmy will be in. Hope he can pull his finger out and perform, our attack needs a strike bowler

[Wildsea]

pkitchen said:

Wildsea said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/8151402.st...

A huge blow to English Cricket. He was one of the most exciting English players to watch IMO

Edited by Wildsea on Wednesday 15th July 11:20

Agree. Lets hope he can play some further part in this series, but I am not hopeful, he obviously has difficulty getting through 5 days. He deserves to finish on a high. Major boost to the Aussies though if he can't. Looks like Harmy will be in. Hope he can pull his finger out and perform, our attack needs a strike bowler

Yep. I so hope he plays tomorrow. I'm going Thursday and Saturday and would love to see him play once again. He was the main reason I got into cricket. I saw an amazing test innings by him a couple of years ago, on channel 4 and that kicked off my love of cricket.

[Aussies4-Poms 0]

Bowling 90+ mph is very stressful on the body. Even those with more athletic physiques (ie Brett Lee) struggle with the stress on elbows (Tait), hips, knees and ankles - not to mention the lower back.

It did for me - my elbow, hip & lower back could not take it and that was just playing 96 over cricket in Perth.

Bowling 20+ overs a day two days in a row would be very demanding.

Granted, Freddie, Lee and co have all the physio support etc they need, but it is still a hard ask.

Hope we give him a good send off by smashing him about - but not many batsmen have done that lately.

[pkitchen]

Aussies4-Poms 0 said:

Bowling 90+ mph is very stressful on the body. Even those with more athletic physiques (ie Brett Lee) struggle with the stress on elbows (Tait), hips, knees and ankles - not to mention the lower back.

It did for me - my elbow, hip & lower back could not take it and that was just playing 96 over cricket in Perth.

Bowling 20+ overs a day two days in a row would be very demanding.

Granted, Freddie, Lee and co have all the physio support etc they need, but it is still a hard ask.

Hope we give him a good send off by smashing him about - but not many batsmen have done that lately.

Not having your boys take the piss out of him bowling at half cock and getting smashed around. No thanks Just let him go quietly in that case, Harmy on fire is what I want your lot to face although I'm not holding my breath

[pkitchen]

Wildsea said:

pkitchen said:

Wildsea said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/8151402.st...

A huge blow to English Cricket. He was one of the most exciting English players to watch IMO

Edited by Wildsea on Wednesday 15th July 11:20

Agree. Lets hope he can play some further part in this series, but I am not hopeful, he obviously has difficulty getting through 5 days. He deserves to finish on a high. Major boost to the Aussies though if he can't. Looks like Harmy will be in. Hope he can pull his finger out and perform, our attack needs a strike bowler

Yep. I so hope he plays tomorrow. I'm going Thursday and Saturday and would love to see him play once again. He was the main reason I got into cricket. I saw an amazing test innings by him a couple of years ago, on channel 4 and that kicked off my love of cricket.

Best thing for you to see is us spanking the aussies with or without Fred. Only play him if he is fit, if not we have to leave him out its too much of a risk. Would be a shame though...

[Wildsea]

pkitchen said:

Wildsea said:

pkitchen said:

Wildsea said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/8151402.st...

A huge blow to English Cricket. He was one of the most exciting English players to watch IMO

Edited by Wildsea on Wednesday 15th July 11:20

Agree. Lets hope he can play some further part in this series, but I am not hopeful, he obviously has difficulty getting through 5 days. He deserves to finish on a high. Major boost to the Aussies though if he can't. Looks like Harmy will be in. Hope he can pull his finger out and perform, our attack needs a strike bowler

Yep. I so hope he plays tomorrow. I'm going Thursday and Saturday and would love to see him play once again. He was the main reason I got into cricket. I saw an amazing test innings by him a couple of years ago, on channel 4 and that kicked off my love of cricket.

Best thing for you to see is us spanking the aussies with or without Fred. Only play him if he is fit, if not we have to leave him out its too much of a risk. Would be a shame though...

Yep, just would be great to see Freddie smash it about a bit with the bat. But as you say the most important thing is that we only play him if he is fit, and can last the 5 days, I really would hate to see the Aussies smack him around the park, just because we played him, because he is due to retire ectc. A bit odd timing regarding the announcment, surley this will affect team morale knowing it is his last series. We can't let the Aussies have any ammo to use against us and we seem to be provideing it for them.

[Aussies4-Poms 0]

Wildsea said:

pkitchen said:

Wildsea said:

pkitchen said:

Wildsea said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/8151402.st...

A huge blow to English Cricket. He was one of the most exciting English players to watch IMO

Edited by Wildsea on Wednesday 15th July 11:20

Agree. Lets hope he can play some further part in this series, but I am not hopeful, he obviously has difficulty getting through 5 days. He deserves to finish on a high. Major boost to the Aussies though if he can't. Looks like Harmy will be in. Hope he can pull his finger out and perform, our attack needs a strike bowler

Yep. I so hope he plays tomorrow. I'm going Thursday and Saturday and would love to see him play once again. He was the main reason I got into cricket. I saw an amazing test innings by him a couple of years ago, on channel 4 and that kicked off my love of cricket.

Best thing for you to see is us spanking the aussies with or without Fred. Only play him if he is fit, if not we have to leave him out its too much of a risk. Would be a shame though...

Yep, just would be great to see Freddie smash it about a bit with the bat. But as you say the most important thing is that we only play him if he is fit, and can last the 5 days, I really would hate to see the Aussies smack him around the park, just because we played him, because he is due to retire ectc. A bit odd timing regarding the announcment, surley this will affect team morale knowing it is his last series. We can't let the Aussies have any ammo to use against us and we seem to be provideing it for them.

That is a good point. I expect there will be some sledging pertaining to Freddie playing for the money etc

[pkitchen]

Yep, just would be great to see Freddie smash it about a bit with the bat. But as you say the most important thing is that we only play him if he is fit, and can last the 5 days, I really would hate to see the Aussies smack him around the park, just because we played him, because he is due to retire ectc. A bit odd timing regarding the announcment, surley this will affect team morale knowing it is his last series. We can't let the Aussies have any ammo to use against us and we seem to be provideing it for them.
[/quote]

If Fred is fit and can last he must play. He is by far our best bowler particularly against lefties and he will be really wanting to go out on a high. If not then its Harmy. The effect on morale remains to be seen, it would have been of no surprise given that most people in the game knew it was going to happen soon, just not at the start of an ashes series. We can only beat the aussies by our performance on the pitch and we need to see a step up in performance from everyone in the team whether Fred plays or not tbh. As professional sportsmen they have to deal with this and move on. I believe they will.