mma vs. boxing
Discussion
it`s not lost on me that there is regular discussion on these boards about mma but very little about boxing.for instance, wlad klitschko`s recent masterclass was not even mentioned.i am aware of old school boxing mentality and the general disregard for mma and while i agree that the crude slugging on the old ufc shows was nothing short of embarrasing the sport as it has evolved has turned into a very watchable disciplined sport.letters written in to boxing news on the subject are generally scathing but i have noticed a very significant shift in the last year or so and indeed the boxing news producers themselves have now brought out a sister magazine called fighting fit covering both bases.i would be interested to hear from some of the obviously knowledgable mma fans here about their boxing opinions.i suppose the extremely long winded question is this.; as a life long boxing fan and part time practitioner my attitude to mma has changed to the point i`d like to try the training.it`s not that i like boxing any less than i used to it`s just i have found another combat sport that has captured my interest as well.how many of you guys are boxing fans as well? or is the general attitude to boxing somewhat disdainful?
I love watching boxing, infact the UFC president was a boxing promoter at one point. I dont think anyone involved with MMA dislikes boxing at all really.
However Boxing has gotten itself into a horrible mess on the last few years and left itself wide open to being over taken by the UFC. The alphabet titles of boxing dont help in any way and the big boxing fights sometimes dont even have titles hanging on their outcome. Calzaghe vs Hopkins was for a blooming magazine title! The fighters in boxing also seem able to dodge fighting each other for years, calzaghe hopkins should have happened years before it did.
Boxing can still put on massive cards, pacquiao vs hatton for one but below the superfights boxing is very weak. UFC 100 has 5 fights on the main card which are all generating a lot of interest in the mma community and casual fans whereas I couldnt name 1 fight from the hatton pacquiao undercard.
Boxing fans talk down mma a lot claiming its not a real sport and has no history. Thats ridiculous as mma is based upon martial arts which have been around just as long as boxing if not longer in many cases.
Im not sure why theres so much angst between the two, both can exist side by side quite easily. MMA is still in its infancy and will only get bigger, MMA draws in people from Judo, Thai boxing, jui jistsu, boxing, wrestling and many more different sports. Boxing will have to come to terms with the fact its not the undisputed top dog of fight sports anymore. I hope boxing survives but after this current generation of boxers retire Im not sure where their next superstars will come from.
However Boxing has gotten itself into a horrible mess on the last few years and left itself wide open to being over taken by the UFC. The alphabet titles of boxing dont help in any way and the big boxing fights sometimes dont even have titles hanging on their outcome. Calzaghe vs Hopkins was for a blooming magazine title! The fighters in boxing also seem able to dodge fighting each other for years, calzaghe hopkins should have happened years before it did.
Boxing can still put on massive cards, pacquiao vs hatton for one but below the superfights boxing is very weak. UFC 100 has 5 fights on the main card which are all generating a lot of interest in the mma community and casual fans whereas I couldnt name 1 fight from the hatton pacquiao undercard.
Boxing fans talk down mma a lot claiming its not a real sport and has no history. Thats ridiculous as mma is based upon martial arts which have been around just as long as boxing if not longer in many cases.
Im not sure why theres so much angst between the two, both can exist side by side quite easily. MMA is still in its infancy and will only get bigger, MMA draws in people from Judo, Thai boxing, jui jistsu, boxing, wrestling and many more different sports. Boxing will have to come to terms with the fact its not the undisputed top dog of fight sports anymore. I hope boxing survives but after this current generation of boxers retire Im not sure where their next superstars will come from.
i think thats half the problem in terms of viewers.the next generation of fighters are all russian/ukrainian etc. look at the worlds amateurs now.the yanks can`t take it.american heavyweight is the weakest it`s ever been and they need an american star to boost the viewing interest.what do you think klitschko will do to this arreola kid!!!my wote would be to go back to the good old days of 8 weight divisions and one world governing body.even then though,unless there is a greater american presence in world boxing the world`s biggest market isn`t going to be exploited to it`s full potential
the weight division thing is apertinant point. I have no idea what weight division anyone is in, hatton got whooped by Floyd and yet was still world champion at his actual weight, thats just daft. If theres only 8 titles then the best will have to fight the best to get a title. The UFC has thus far limited its weight divisions although its lack of cross promotion is a bit annoying. Rival promotions are springing up, theres 5 major ones just now, UFC (USA based, branching out worldwide), Strikeforce (USA), Dream (Japan), Sengoku (Japan) and Affliction (USA).
Affliction is the interesting one in terms of titles though, unlike the others it has no titles of its own, preferring instead to use the WAMMA (world association of mixed martial arts) belts. These belts are supposedly awarded to the best fighters regardless of their affiliation. The trouble is the UFC dont recognise them at all and wont cross promote. Thats understandable as the UFC has nothing to gain from cross promoting its fighters and potentially having them lose to fighters from a smaller promotion.
Affliction is the interesting one in terms of titles though, unlike the others it has no titles of its own, preferring instead to use the WAMMA (world association of mixed martial arts) belts. These belts are supposedly awarded to the best fighters regardless of their affiliation. The trouble is the UFC dont recognise them at all and wont cross promote. Thats understandable as the UFC has nothing to gain from cross promoting its fighters and potentially having them lose to fighters from a smaller promotion.
deevlash said:
The UFC has thus far limited its weight divisions although its lack of cross promotion is a bit annoying. Rival promotions are springing up, theres 5 major ones just now, UFC (USA based, branching out worldwide), Strikeforce (USA), Dream (Japan), Sengoku (Japan) and Affliction (USA).
I would like to see a super-hvy division in the UFC, do you know why they don't have one?deevlash said:
Affliction is the interesting one in terms of titles though, unlike the others it has no titles of its own, preferring instead to use the WAMMA (world association of mixed martial arts) belts. These belts are supposedly awarded to the best fighters regardless of their affiliation. The trouble is the UFC dont recognise them at all and wont cross promote. Thats understandable as the UFC has nothing to gain from cross promoting its fighters and potentially having them lose to fighters from a smaller promotion.
Is this associated with BAMMA?The UFC is definately the MMA version of the WWE. Outside of the WWE wrestling promotions cross promote, but Vince hates all opposition and trys every PPV trick in the book to quash them. I think Dana borrowed one of his PPV tricks for one of the last Affiliation cards, to deny them as much coverage as possible.
there isnt enough top line talent to sustain a Super heavy weight division just now. The heavyweight division was crap enough as it was not too long ago. if superheavyweight started at >250lbs there would only be lesnar really from the UFC and the other super heavies from around the world are pretty crap. Hong man choi is crap, bobb sapp is crap, then we're onto utterly useless guys like butterbean. Super heavyweight fights are just freak shows at this stage in MMA's development, maybe in a few years it'll be a viable option but just now it would only damage MMA's reputation as a proper sport.
I dont think Wamma has anything to do with Bamma. I watched the first Bamma card, it wasnt bad but the guy doing the interviews was awful (I think hes some kind of london radio gimp), he hadnt got a clue about actual fighting.
I dont think Wamma has anything to do with Bamma. I watched the first Bamma card, it wasnt bad but the guy doing the interviews was awful (I think hes some kind of london radio gimp), he hadnt got a clue about actual fighting.
i suppose it gets more complicated with the octogon and ring.i watched one of the affliction cards(arlovski was on the bill) and the ropes seemed to offer far less opportunity for the competitors to rush for takedowns.it seemed quite cumbersome and the referee had to take them back to the centre of the ring to be repositioned after rope entanglements.whichever way you dress it your style must be accomodated to the field of battle.i recently saw a hendo interview where he was talking about the switch from ropes in pride to the octogon and said the adjustment was very difficult in terms of tripping over his own feet up against the cage wheras in a boxing ring your feet could go out onto the apron unhindered. i wonder if these different organisations will eventually all amalgamate into a sort of world championship?? going back to our original points i know boxing would be all the better for it and how long can fedor stay out of the ufc?? it seems crazy that the sort of fights that would generate the most interest can`t happen because of rival promotions. then again , politics has been ruining boxing since the fifties
I hope fedor comes to the UFC soon before hes too old. The major stumbling block there however is the amount of cash he makes with Affliction and his sambo. He wants to be allowed to continue competing in combat sambo for russia but the UFC want exclusive contracts. Fedor also keeps all the video rights to his fights which is obviously worth a truck load of cash. I think that he'll continue to fight with Affliction until they go under, although folk have been saying thats been going to happen sonce theor first card and theyre still here.
It has to happen eventually though, no serious MMA fan will accept Lesnar/Mir as the best HW in the world until they fight Fedor and likewise no casual fan will respect Fedor as the best until he beats Lesnar/Mir.
It has to happen eventually though, no serious MMA fan will accept Lesnar/Mir as the best HW in the world until they fight Fedor and likewise no casual fan will respect Fedor as the best until he beats Lesnar/Mir.
deevlash said:
It has to happen eventually though, no serious MMA fan will accept Lesnar/Mir as the best HW in the world until they fight Fedor and likewise no casual fan will respect Fedor as the best until he beats Lesnar/Mir.
In the eyes of us, the fans it has to happen...but Dana v Fedor? Do you really think either one of these will blink? The combat sambo seems to be the biggest sticking point. Has Dana allowed any other exception since the UFC modernized itself?Fittster said:
One of the problems with boxing is that to watch a big fight I have to mess about with a pay per view subscription and then stay up all night.
at least its on! There was due to be an announcement about who was going to be showing UFC 100 today (its on saturday night at about 3am) but no announcement has been made, Im getting worried!I hope it doesnt go to PPV as I think that'll kill off the UFC in the UK.
man, if i had the money i would start a boxing series based on the ufc model.a full fat card about every 8-10 weeks but a completely non obligatory tie in.all the biggest fights recently have been for the unofficial ring belt which basically is snubbing the alphabet boys.if fighter a b or c wants to fight for the wbc belt so be it but if a series like this could attract permanent ppv and good gate reciepts(which i am sure a full card and not one decent fight an d 8 fillers could)and heavy duty sponsorship the prizemoney would be enough to lure in the biggest fighters.it would take a few shows to become established but i`m sure someone with a bit of savvy and deep enough pockets could make it work.it`s sad that the days of dempsey/tunney and 120,000 people at baseball stadiums will never be seen again
deevlash said:
Fittster said:
One of the problems with boxing is that to watch a big fight I have to mess about with a pay per view subscription and then stay up all night.
at least its on! There was due to be an announcement about who was going to be showing UFC 100 today (its on saturday night at about 3am) but no announcement has been made, Im getting worried!I hope it doesnt go to PPV as I think that'll kill off the UFC in the UK.
If a promoter/TV broadcaster can't sort a reasonable program people will just go to the internet.
Fittster said:
deevlash said:
Fittster said:
One of the problems with boxing is that to watch a big fight I have to mess about with a pay per view subscription and then stay up all night.
at least its on! There was due to be an announcement about who was going to be showing UFC 100 today (its on saturday night at about 3am) but no announcement has been made, Im getting worried!I hope it doesnt go to PPV as I think that'll kill off the UFC in the UK.
If a promoter/TV broadcaster can't sort a reasonable program people will just go to the internet.
Re Dana Vs Fedor
From what i have read on the net the stumbling block is Fedors management team (who set up M1 global) They are heavily involved with affliction and Will be the ones who benifit from UFC Cross promotion. Cross Promotion will not benefit the UFC at all, the only cross promotion they will do is with WEC who have the weight divisions below the 5 in UFC.
Fedor & Dana have not spoken.
Fedor wants to continue fighting in Sambo his national sport, Dana wants him exclusive to the UFC. I think if Dana does allow him to fight in Sambo he will want to join the UFC as after his Josh Barnet fight. After this he has cleared out the majority of the HW not in the UFC.
Incidently the Level of major HW outside the UFC are
-Fedor, no introduction needed
- Tim syliva - dropped from affliction after losing to a washed up boxer in 9 seconds
- Arloski - dropped from affliction after losing to UFL champ in ~26 seconds and being paid $2M for 2 fights losing both
- Barnet, if he wins then Dana is deperate to sign him.
Who else?
From what i have read on the net the stumbling block is Fedors management team (who set up M1 global) They are heavily involved with affliction and Will be the ones who benifit from UFC Cross promotion. Cross Promotion will not benefit the UFC at all, the only cross promotion they will do is with WEC who have the weight divisions below the 5 in UFC.
Fedor & Dana have not spoken.
Fedor wants to continue fighting in Sambo his national sport, Dana wants him exclusive to the UFC. I think if Dana does allow him to fight in Sambo he will want to join the UFC as after his Josh Barnet fight. After this he has cleared out the majority of the HW not in the UFC.
Incidently the Level of major HW outside the UFC are
-Fedor, no introduction needed
- Tim syliva - dropped from affliction after losing to a washed up boxer in 9 seconds
- Arloski - dropped from affliction after losing to UFL champ in ~26 seconds and being paid $2M for 2 fights losing both
- Barnet, if he wins then Dana is deperate to sign him.
Who else?
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