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New Zealand 21 Ireland 11
Well i haven't seen such an average performance from New Zealand ever before. Their play was so erratic, from wonderfully simple back play that carved Ireland open, to some dreadful defence right across the pitch and some distinctly below average performances from supposed World Class Players. Dan Carter was appalling for me and looked half fit and tired. I'm not sure i've seen many International sides let the ball bounce from a kick off, never mind let it happen twice, which NZ did. The pressure and crap the management have been getting back in NZ obviously effected the players and the played with huge pressure on their backs and it showed, big time.
Thought Conrad Smith showed his class in Midfields, Hore did ok at 2, McCaw and Rodders were top class and showed the ELV's didn't effect the breakdown at all, Tialata had Horan in all sorts of trouble an the massively under rated Ali Williams i thought was superb. Kaino didn't perform to the level he should have.
Credit to Ireland, their 2nd and back row played pretty well and put NZ under pressure. Never have Ireland had a better chance to beat NZ for the first time in 103 years.
All in all a pretty average game of rugby played in terribly difficult conditions, probably a fair scoreline and both teams got a lot to work on.
I expect two different props for NZ vs Eng, Somerville and Woodcock will be back and provide a much stronger front platform, Mealamu could also play at 2 despite Hore doing pretty well. I think its nailed on Leon MacDonald will start at 15 and Muliaina could play on the wing instead of Tuitavake. Todays Kiwi performance should give Eng much more confidence, but NZ remain strong favs. Like to see the weather dry up a bit.
So onto South Africa vs Wales - fear for Wales a little bit here. Welsh backrow is going to have to play the game of their lives (as will the rest of the pack) or hope SA have a massive off day. Can't see it myself, but hope Wales can spring a suprise !
Well i haven't seen such an average performance from New Zealand ever before. Their play was so erratic, from wonderfully simple back play that carved Ireland open, to some dreadful defence right across the pitch and some distinctly below average performances from supposed World Class Players. Dan Carter was appalling for me and looked half fit and tired. I'm not sure i've seen many International sides let the ball bounce from a kick off, never mind let it happen twice, which NZ did. The pressure and crap the management have been getting back in NZ obviously effected the players and the played with huge pressure on their backs and it showed, big time.
Thought Conrad Smith showed his class in Midfields, Hore did ok at 2, McCaw and Rodders were top class and showed the ELV's didn't effect the breakdown at all, Tialata had Horan in all sorts of trouble an the massively under rated Ali Williams i thought was superb. Kaino didn't perform to the level he should have.
Credit to Ireland, their 2nd and back row played pretty well and put NZ under pressure. Never have Ireland had a better chance to beat NZ for the first time in 103 years.
All in all a pretty average game of rugby played in terribly difficult conditions, probably a fair scoreline and both teams got a lot to work on.
I expect two different props for NZ vs Eng, Somerville and Woodcock will be back and provide a much stronger front platform, Mealamu could also play at 2 despite Hore doing pretty well. I think its nailed on Leon MacDonald will start at 15 and Muliaina could play on the wing instead of Tuitavake. Todays Kiwi performance should give Eng much more confidence, but NZ remain strong favs. Like to see the weather dry up a bit.
So onto South Africa vs Wales - fear for Wales a little bit here. Welsh backrow is going to have to play the game of their lives (as will the rest of the pack) or hope SA have a massive off day. Can't see it myself, but hope Wales can spring a suprise !
South Africa 43 Wales 17
Juan Smith is bar far the best player in the world at the moment. Jesus what a player. Luke Watson was very clever too and combined with Smith well. Add Spies into that at 8 and the fact Burger wasn't in the squad. SA back row is immense and has strength in depth. Its a frightning prospect for any team. Matfield in the 2nd row is the worlds best 2nd row player and a front row that not too many will get the better of.
De Villers in the centre was great but i didn't think the rest of the SA backs were up to the level that their forwards gave. Habana and Chavhanga were not put into too much space despite loads of ball and seemed to be a little susceptible out wide. Du Preez at 9 would have given the backs more go forward ball i think.
But overall, they proved why they are world champs and the best team in the world at the moment by some distance.
Wales - well im not too sure what to say as they were well beaten in every department. It certainly highlights how important Martin Williams is to them and how much work he does. Jonathan Thomas and Dafydd Jones were seriously found out today and exposed. Not good enough at this level.
Far too many errors from Wales.
Shane is still world class , Fury looked half decent and worth a proper look and Matthew Rees and Richard Hibbard looked like they could meet the bokkes intensity.
Just shows that the gap between the best in the world and the best in Europe is massive and why i always set these guys in the SH as the bench mark for any NH International Side and their claim to be world class.
Juan Smith is bar far the best player in the world at the moment. Jesus what a player. Luke Watson was very clever too and combined with Smith well. Add Spies into that at 8 and the fact Burger wasn't in the squad. SA back row is immense and has strength in depth. Its a frightning prospect for any team. Matfield in the 2nd row is the worlds best 2nd row player and a front row that not too many will get the better of.
De Villers in the centre was great but i didn't think the rest of the SA backs were up to the level that their forwards gave. Habana and Chavhanga were not put into too much space despite loads of ball and seemed to be a little susceptible out wide. Du Preez at 9 would have given the backs more go forward ball i think.
But overall, they proved why they are world champs and the best team in the world at the moment by some distance.
Wales - well im not too sure what to say as they were well beaten in every department. It certainly highlights how important Martin Williams is to them and how much work he does. Jonathan Thomas and Dafydd Jones were seriously found out today and exposed. Not good enough at this level.
Far too many errors from Wales.
Shane is still world class , Fury looked half decent and worth a proper look and Matthew Rees and Richard Hibbard looked like they could meet the bokkes intensity.
Just shows that the gap between the best in the world and the best in Europe is massive and why i always set these guys in the SH as the bench mark for any NH International Side and their claim to be world class.
stimmers said:
Far too many errors from Wales.
Yep, some errors in key positions for sure, but I don't see it so one sided. Overall I thought it wasn't a 25 point game, no chance, more like 12 - ie the four pens.Some key decisions I felt went against us and two marginals could have easily gone the opposite way. I'm talking a forward pass to Shane which denied a try (correct but easy decision to give the other way), quickly followed by a cast-iron forward pass by SA in an offload not given, leading to their 3rd try I think. A 5 minute passage of play of two marginal decisions leading to a 14 point swing in the game.
Cooper is not good enough, too static and predictable for me, and Jamie Roberts made a couple of glaring errors conceding posession which we haven't see from Lee Byrne. We can definitely take some heart from the performance, given we were missing some big players.
Ireland this morning I felt were unlucky. They had a chance to catch NZ cold and nearly did so. Two very poor lineouts from Ireland conceding posession early in the 2nd half, a s
te pen from Mears I think plus an excellent line break from Carter were the difference between the two sides.Today was a chance to catch the SH sides a little cold in terms of prep but we missed out on that. Still, looking forward to next weekend.
hornetrider said:
stimmers said:
Far too many errors from Wales.
Overall I thought it wasn't a 25 point game, no chance, more like 12 - ie the four pens.I expect a better showing from both sides next week but not a dissimilar scoreline. As i have said before the game and showed in the game, Wales cannot cope with SA's backrow. If Matfield starts next week too, it just gets even harder for Wales.
Plus its more altitude to deal with for Wales
Really tough game for them now after today
Jordan Crane showed some great off loads, but the pack as whole seemed to want to keep the ball live.
Considering the heat they were playing in great effort. Didn't see too much of Ben Foden was hoping for a bit more from him. Would like Tom Biggs to ease off a bit or Leeds may just lose him.
Considering the heat they were playing in great effort. Didn't see too much of Ben Foden was hoping for a bit more from him. Would like Tom Biggs to ease off a bit or Leeds may just lose him.
stimmers said:
England Saxons 64 USA 10
Didn't see much of the game as i was in the pub, but apparently an impressive display, especially from Jordan Crane
Paul Hodgson was another stand out player, really helped set the tempo of the game. It was great to see a game full of offloads by everyone, great style of play to watch.Didn't see much of the game as i was in the pub, but apparently an impressive display, especially from Jordan Crane
Better keep an eye out for the Sydney Convicts they are coming over to defend their world RU title in Dublin.
http://www.sydneyconvicts.org/
It's fair to say they are a little different
http://www.sydneyconvicts.org/
It's fair to say they are a little different
BigMansZetec said:
stimmers said:
England Saxons 64 USA 10
Didn't see much of the game as i was in the pub, but apparently an impressive display, especially from Jordan Crane
Paul Hodgson was another stand out player, really helped set the tempo of the game. It was great to see a game full of offloads by everyone, great style of play to watch.Didn't see much of the game as i was in the pub, but apparently an impressive display, especially from Jordan Crane
Si 330 said:
Jordan Crane showed some great off loads, but the pack as whole seemed to want to keep the ball live.
Considering the heat they were playing in great effort. Didn't see too much of Ben Foden was hoping for a bit more from him. Would like Tom Biggs to ease off a bit or Leeds may just lose him.
Unusual for Crane, not his style. Lets hope its not a one off because they guy could be a serious player.Considering the heat they were playing in great effort. Didn't see too much of Ben Foden was hoping for a bit more from him. Would like Tom Biggs to ease off a bit or Leeds may just lose him.
Foden - im lost with him. I don't see how he's going to have an Eng future. Northampton have signed him as a 9 and he and they say thats where he will play. No way will he play 9 for Eng and we can't have a 15 who's playing at 9 week in week out for the National side. I can't see a future for him in that set up.
Biggs is a very good player IMO and he won't be at Leeds for long. Scored a good amount of Try's in a poor team that got no ball last season.
Wales made far too many mistakes and we suffered for it, but I do believe we beat them in some areas. We demolished the SA scrum for example. We sorely missed Martyn and Gavin and roved perhaps that beyond the first team and bench, we will suffer without quality backup and options. We had a 3rd and 4th choice scrum half out yesterday. I don't know why we pulled Stephen Jones off so early, he was having a good game. Shane was fantastic as per usual and showed up habana I felt.
I doubt we will see a huge improvement next week and with the winter tests ahead of us, we could have a bit of a losing streak coming up.
I doubt we will see a huge improvement next week and with the winter tests ahead of us, we could have a bit of a losing streak coming up.
Biggs is a very good player IMO and he won't be at Leeds for long. Scored a good amount of Try's in a poor team that got no ball last season.
[/quote]
The clubs leading try scorer, 1 year left on his contract just hope by getting some England game time now. He may think / hope he can stay at Leeds with out righting off his hopes of international rugby. Although I think saxons is his limit.
stimmers said:
BigMansZetec said:
stimmers said:
England Saxons 64 USA 10
Didn't see much of the game as i was in the pub, but apparently an impressive display, especially from Jordan Crane
Paul Hodgson was another stand out player, really helped set the tempo of the game. It was great to see a game full of offloads by everyone, great style of play to watch.Didn't see much of the game as i was in the pub, but apparently an impressive display, especially from Jordan Crane
Nick Easter is flying back from NZ after his Barbarians injury. No replacement is going out.
BigMansZetec said:
stimmers said:
BigMansZetec said:
stimmers said:
England Saxons 64 USA 10
Didn't see much of the game as i was in the pub, but apparently an impressive display, especially from Jordan Crane
Paul Hodgson was another stand out player, really helped set the tempo of the game. It was great to see a game full of offloads by everyone, great style of play to watch.Didn't see much of the game as i was in the pub, but apparently an impressive display, especially from Jordan Crane
Nick Easter is flying back from NZ after his Barbarians injury. No replacement is going out.
Its a great result, the performance was obviously good, but i wait to see how good it really was when they come up against better opposition. I've seen the Monye try and there is no way on earth a half decent professional rugby team would conceed a try like that so easily.
They can only beat whats in front of them i guess. I'm desperate for Ollie Smith to recapture his form of 2005, where he was one of the top two 13's in Europe for me. He's bar by the best all round 13 Eng have had in a while and its a shame his personal life has effected his form so much.
Easter out is a blow. Could be Andrew's hand is forced to play Haskell at 8, which i would love to see. I think we need some experience at 6 so they will go for Worsely. Doubt they will go for Narraway or Worsely at 8. You can toss a coin between Lipman or Rees at 7.
My prediciton for the 1st test team
1) Sheridan
2) Mears
3) Stevens
4) Borthwick (Capt)
5) Palmer
6) Worsely
7) Ress / Lipman
8) Haskell
9) Wigglesworth
10) Hodgson
11) Strettle
12) Barkley
13) Tindall
14) Ojo
15) Brown
16) Payne
17) Paice
18) Kennedy
19) Croft
20) Richards
21) Flood
22) Tait
Edited by stimmers on Monday 9th June 14:24
stimmers said:
Easter out is a blow. Could be Andrew's hand is forced to play Haskell at 8, which i would love to see. I think we need some experience at 6 so they will go for Worsely. Doubt they will go for Narraway or Worsely at 8. You can toss a coin between Lipman or Rees at 7.
My prediciton for the 1st test team
1) Sheridan
2) Mears
3) Stevens
4) Borthwick (Capt)
5) Palmer
6) Worsely
7) Ress / Lipman
8) Haskell
9) Wigglesworth
10) Hodgson
11) Strettle
12) Barkley
13) Tindall
14) Ojo
15) Brown
16) Payne
17) Paice
18) Kennedy
19) Croft
20) Richards
21) Flood
22) Tait
Yeah I think that team looks about right, I think Lipman will get the nod as I imagine Andrew will want a bit of experience, especially with the loss of Easter.My prediciton for the 1st test team
1) Sheridan
2) Mears
3) Stevens
4) Borthwick (Capt)
5) Palmer
6) Worsely
7) Ress / Lipman
8) Haskell
9) Wigglesworth
10) Hodgson
11) Strettle
12) Barkley
13) Tindall
14) Ojo
15) Brown
16) Payne
17) Paice
18) Kennedy
19) Croft
20) Richards
21) Flood
22) Tait
Not sure how England are planning to use Richards, was named as a back against the Barbarians and not a specialist scrum-half, as Care was on the bench. Care could feature in place of maybe Tait?
Unfortunately I will miss the game as I'm at Le Mans, unless someone gets a TV going with it on.
BigMansZetec said:
stimmers said:
Easter out is a blow. Could be Andrew's hand is forced to play Haskell at 8, which i would love to see. I think we need some experience at 6 so they will go for Worsely. Doubt they will go for Narraway or Worsely at 8. You can toss a coin between Lipman or Rees at 7.
My prediciton for the 1st test team
1) Sheridan
2) Mears
3) Stevens
4) Borthwick (Capt)
5) Palmer
6) Worsely
7) Ress / Lipman
8) Haskell
9) Wigglesworth
10) Hodgson
11) Strettle
12) Barkley
13) Tindall
14) Ojo
15) Brown
16) Payne
17) Paice
18) Kennedy
19) Croft
20) Richards
21) Flood
22) Tait
Care could feature in place of maybe Tait?My prediciton for the 1st test team
1) Sheridan
2) Mears
3) Stevens
4) Borthwick (Capt)
5) Palmer
6) Worsely
7) Ress / Lipman
8) Haskell
9) Wigglesworth
10) Hodgson
11) Strettle
12) Barkley
13) Tindall
14) Ojo
15) Brown
16) Payne
17) Paice
18) Kennedy
19) Croft
20) Richards
21) Flood
22) Tait
.
I personally wouldn't have Richards in the squad. Wigglesworth would start 1st test and Care 2nd, with the other on the bench.
I really want to see Hartley and Kennedy start a test and Tom Croft to get some good game time.
Say what you want about this tour, but like Wales are finding SA, you will see who has the ability to play at the highest level and those that don't. They don't need to play a blinder, just need to compete and show signs that they can develop into a player that can take on the best. Average players always get found out on tours to the SH.
England team to play New Zealand in Auckland on Saturday, 14 June, 0835 BST:
M Brown (Harlequins); T Ojo (London Irish), M Tindall (Gloucester), O Barkley (Bath), D Strettle (Harlequins); C Hodgson (Sale), R Wigglesworth (Sale); A Sheridan (Sale Sharks), L Mears (Bath), M Stevens (Bath), T Palmer (Wasps), S Borthwick (Bath, captain), J Haskell (Wasps), T Rees (Wasps), L Narraway (Gloucester).
Replacements: D Paice (London Irish), T Payne (Wasps), B Kay (Leicester), J Worsley (Wasps), D Care (Harlequins), J Noon (Newcastle), M Tait (Newcastle).
New Zealand team: M Muliaina (Chiefs); A Tuitavake (Blues), C Smith (Hurricanes), M Nonu (Hurricanes), S Sivivatu (Chiefs); D Carter (Crusaders), A Ellis (Crusaders); N Tialata (Hurricanes), A Hore (Hurricanes), G Somerville (Crusaders), B Thorn (Crusaders), A Williams (Crusaders), R So'oialo (Hurricanes), R McCaw (Crusaders, captain), J Kaino (Blues).
Replacements: K Mealamu (Blues), J Schwalger (Hurricanes), A Boric (Blues), S Lauaki (Chiefs), J Cowan (Highlanders), S Donald (Chiefs), L MacDonald (Crusaders)
Back row in slightly surprising, not a lot of experience there, but this tour should be about developing new guys, so will see how that goes. Disappointing that Nick Kennedy can't even make the bench, Croft the same.
Overall it seems a good balance of new guys and experienced players.
I imagine if England win there the team won't change much for the second test but if they lose we are more likely to see a mix up with others getting a chance.
M Brown (Harlequins); T Ojo (London Irish), M Tindall (Gloucester), O Barkley (Bath), D Strettle (Harlequins); C Hodgson (Sale), R Wigglesworth (Sale); A Sheridan (Sale Sharks), L Mears (Bath), M Stevens (Bath), T Palmer (Wasps), S Borthwick (Bath, captain), J Haskell (Wasps), T Rees (Wasps), L Narraway (Gloucester).
Replacements: D Paice (London Irish), T Payne (Wasps), B Kay (Leicester), J Worsley (Wasps), D Care (Harlequins), J Noon (Newcastle), M Tait (Newcastle).
New Zealand team: M Muliaina (Chiefs); A Tuitavake (Blues), C Smith (Hurricanes), M Nonu (Hurricanes), S Sivivatu (Chiefs); D Carter (Crusaders), A Ellis (Crusaders); N Tialata (Hurricanes), A Hore (Hurricanes), G Somerville (Crusaders), B Thorn (Crusaders), A Williams (Crusaders), R So'oialo (Hurricanes), R McCaw (Crusaders, captain), J Kaino (Blues).
Replacements: K Mealamu (Blues), J Schwalger (Hurricanes), A Boric (Blues), S Lauaki (Chiefs), J Cowan (Highlanders), S Donald (Chiefs), L MacDonald (Crusaders)
Back row in slightly surprising, not a lot of experience there, but this tour should be about developing new guys, so will see how that goes. Disappointing that Nick Kennedy can't even make the bench, Croft the same.
Overall it seems a good balance of new guys and experienced players.
I imagine if England win there the team won't change much for the second test but if they lose we are more likely to see a mix up with others getting a chance.
You know something, i'll probably get crucified for this in 4 days time. But if Eng's back row can have a stormer ansd secure us some decent ball, looking at that NZ team, we can win this game.
The Eng team looks decent, but im pretty shocked at the Kiwi team. Nonu at 12? No Woodcock? No Mcdonald?
I think Eng can really get at their front row.
Going to be an interesting game, if Eng let McCaw and So'oialo dominate the breakdown then things could go as every predicts. Just pray for Rees and Haskell to show their true class
The Eng team looks decent, but im pretty shocked at the Kiwi team. Nonu at 12? No Woodcock? No Mcdonald?
I think Eng can really get at their front row.
Going to be an interesting game, if Eng let McCaw and So'oialo dominate the breakdown then things could go as every predicts. Just pray for Rees and Haskell to show their true class
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