Wilkinson Droppped, Balshaw left in the team

[pugwash4x4]

WTF has Ashton completely lost his marbles.

I'm incandescant that he's totally lost the plot.

2 things strike me.

The team has NO confidence in themselves- i beleive that's why JW is playing so inconsistently (he has no confidence to try different options).

Asnton won't pick any leaders in case they tell him he's a tt and run the team themselves like they did at the RWC. I think Ashton feels threatened by strong players. Frankly i'd pay Jonno to get some fitness and trundle up and down the pitch sorting the players out- we'd effectively had 14 players- but we'd at least have 14 players playing as a confident team.

we have no one who goes forward, no one who take control (even though i think JW has tried in the past) and no one who LEADS.

Talking of leaders, Baron it's time to face the music- you haven't got a pigs arsing idea what you are doing anymore. How you are still in charge i do not know. (actually i do- chroniism is a wonderful thing)

[Gun]

Hopefully he'll be relieved of his post after the six nations, he's made some odd choices in this tournament.

[stimmers]

So who would win, the England 1st team or the England Saxons Team that took to the field vs Ireland A

England
England:
I Balshaw (Gloucester); P Sackey (Wasps), J Noon (Newcastle), T Flood (Newcastle), L Vainikolo (Gloucester); D Cipriani (Wasps), R Wigglesworth (Sale Sharks); A Sheridan (Sale Sharks), L Mears (Bath), P Vickery (Wasps. capt), S Shaw (Wasps), S Borthwick (Bath), T Croft (Leicester), M Lipman (Bath), N Easter (Harlequins).

Replacements: G Chuter (Leicester), M Stevens (Bath), B Kay (Leicester), J Haskell (Wasps), P Hodgson (London Irish), J Wilkinson (Newcastle), M Tait (Newcastle).


England Saxons team:
N Abendanon (Bath); T Varndell (Leicester), O Smith (Leicester), S Geraghty (London Irish), D Armitage (London Irish); R Lamb (Gloucester), L Dickson (Newcastle); N Wood (Gloucester), D Paice (London Irish), J Hobson (Bristol), T Palmer (Wasps), N Kennedy (London Irish), P Dowson (Newcastle), B Woods (Newcastle), J Crane (Leicester, capt).

Replacements:
D Hartley (Northampton), D Wilson (Newcastle), G Skivington (Wasps), W Skinner (Harlequins), J Grindal (Newcastle), A Allen (Gloucester), M Brown (Harlequins

[nel]

pugwash4x4 said:

we have no one ..... who LEADS.

Much though I admire Wilko (despite last Sunday's match ) it has always been my opinion that the biggest loss to the team after England became world champions and a crop of players retired....was Martin Johnson. A real captain, emblematic, they'll follow him anywhere kind of guy.

They haven't had a real captain ever since. That's one of the reasons why bringing Catt back was a success last year, despite him being past it. Suddenly there was an old head ready to lead the way. They need to find a leader and it's NOT Wilko - he works damned hard, does his job, but gives the impression of not liking the "lead us forth St. Jonny" bit and the pressure that goes with it.

Is Easter the new captain in the making? Dunno, but until they have someone to follow they'll be lost in space. The wet dream would be for Johnson to come back in as part of the England rugby management team - even his presence as the dressing room motivator wpould make the difference to their conviction levels IMO.

[unrepentant]

Wilko was poor last week. Unusually for him his positional kicking from hand was exceptionally weak. But he's been consistently one of the best players for most of the recent games he's played and to single him out seems ridiculous. How is Vainikolo still in the team? He dropped his first 3 passes last saturday FFS. I think like the Cipriani episode this is Ashton doing a Steve McLaren (dropping Beckham) and trying to show that he's a strong leader when in fact he's nothing of the sort.

[Slaav]

nel said:

pugwash4x4 said:

we have no one ..... who LEADS.

Much though I admire Wilko (despite last Sunday's match ) it has always been my opinion that the biggest loss to the team after England became world champions and a crop of players retired....was Martin Johnson. A real captain, emblematic, they'll follow him anywhere kind of guy.

They haven't had a real captain ever since. That's one of the reasons why bringing Catt back was a success last year, despite him being past it. Suddenly there was an old head ready to lead the way. They need to find a leader and it's NOT Wilko - he works damned hard, does his job, but gives the impression of not liking the "lead us forth St. Jonny" bit and the pressure that goes with it.

Is Easter the new captain in the making? Dunno, but until they have someone to follow they'll be lost in space. The wet dream would be for Johnson to come back in as part of the England rugby management team - even his presence as the dressing room motivator wpould make the difference to their conviction levels IMO.

I was saying something similar today. England need leaders on and off the pitch! Easter is not it... at best, he is 3rd or maybe 4th choice No 8? A very good player that performed well in the RWC but absolutely no chance on this planet of ever making it into a World 15.

Stop, step back and think; who would or may in the future make a World 15? Very very few of the current team unfortunately. Include some who may have made a World 15 if their timing was better? Easter would still be out. Captain, NOT!

Not sure who would be to be honest. At Wasps, Hart was always a future captain in the making and a very good player but has several players in front of him. It is a rare gift to be a very good (I avoided the word 'great') captain and also a GREAT player. Jonno was undoubtedly one of those two descriptions, he was also a GREAT captain! Once in a lifetime one of these chaps comes along for your own team. We have fogotten this.

[stimmers]

Slaav said:

nel said:

pugwash4x4 said:

we have no one ..... who LEADS.

Much though I admire Wilko (despite last Sunday's match ) it has always been my opinion that the biggest loss to the team after England became world champions and a crop of players retired....was Martin Johnson. A real captain, emblematic, they'll follow him anywhere kind of guy.

They haven't had a real captain ever since. That's one of the reasons why bringing Catt back was a success last year, despite him being past it. Suddenly there was an old head ready to lead the way. They need to find a leader and it's NOT Wilko - he works damned hard, does his job, but gives the impression of not liking the "lead us forth St. Jonny" bit and the pressure that goes with it.

Is Easter the new captain in the making? Dunno, but until they have someone to follow they'll be lost in space. The wet dream would be for Johnson to come back in as part of the England rugby management team - even his presence as the dressing room motivator wpould make the difference to their conviction levels IMO.

Easter is not it... at best, he is 3rd or maybe 4th choice No 8?

Who's are 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice for Eng No.8 shirt?

[Slaav]

stimmers said:

Slaav said:

nel said:

pugwash4x4 said:

we have no one ..... who LEADS.

Much though I admire Wilko (despite last Sunday's match ) it has always been my opinion that the biggest loss to the team after England became world champions and a crop of players retired....was Martin Johnson. A real captain, emblematic, they'll follow him anywhere kind of guy.

They haven't had a real captain ever since. That's one of the reasons why bringing Catt back was a success last year, despite him being past it. Suddenly there was an old head ready to lead the way. They need to find a leader and it's NOT Wilko - he works damned hard, does his job, but gives the impression of not liking the "lead us forth St. Jonny" bit and the pressure that goes with it.

Is Easter the new captain in the making? Dunno, but until they have someone to follow they'll be lost in space. The wet dream would be for Johnson to come back in as part of the England rugby management team - even his presence as the dressing room motivator wpould make the difference to their conviction levels IMO.

Easter is not it... at best, he is 3rd or maybe 4th choice No 8?

Who's are 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice for Eng No.8 shirt?

Personally, I rate Haskell as an 8. Very dynamic although there is an argument for him at 6. I am also under the impression that Dan Ward Smith would have been wearing Easter's shirt if he had been fit enough? Wasnt he being tipped for the RWC only to go and bust his ankle or somesuch?

Lastly if we want to demote the poor chap further, I think Narraway is a step in the right direction come 2011 and I really dont see Easter as a long term option. Just my opinion but youth really should be given some chance?

I also wouldnt be surprised to see a back row of Haskell, Crane and Rees at some time in the near furture. Although with Cipriani at 10, that would be too Wasps biased for many. There would be incredible merit in playing DC with his club No 7 though.

[stimmers]

Slaav said:

stimmers said:

Slaav said:

nel said:

pugwash4x4 said:

we have no one ..... who LEADS.

Much though I admire Wilko (despite last Sunday's match ) it has always been my opinion that the biggest loss to the team after England became world champions and a crop of players retired....was Martin Johnson. A real captain, emblematic, they'll follow him anywhere kind of guy.

They haven't had a real captain ever since. That's one of the reasons why bringing Catt back was a success last year, despite him being past it. Suddenly there was an old head ready to lead the way. They need to find a leader and it's NOT Wilko - he works damned hard, does his job, but gives the impression of not liking the "lead us forth St. Jonny" bit and the pressure that goes with it.

Is Easter the new captain in the making? Dunno, but until they have someone to follow they'll be lost in space. The wet dream would be for Johnson to come back in as part of the England rugby management team - even his presence as the dressing room motivator wpould make the difference to their conviction levels IMO.

Easter is not it... at best, he is 3rd or maybe 4th choice No 8?

Who's are 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice for Eng No.8 shirt?

Personally, I rate Haskell as an 8. Very dynamic although there is an argument for him at 6. I am also under the impression that Dan Ward Smith would have been wearing Easter's shirt if he had been fit enough? Wasnt he being tipped for the RWC only to go and bust his ankle or somesuch?

Lastly if we want to demote the poor chap further, I think Narraway is a step in the right direction come 2011 and I really dont see Easter as a long term option. Just my opinion but youth really should be given some chance?

I also wouldnt be surprised to see a back row of Haskell, Crane and Rees at some time in the near furture. Although with Cipriani at 10, that would be too Wasps biased for many. There would be incredible merit in playing DC with his club No 7 though.

Haskell has no played at 8 before, so he can't be ahead of Easter in the pecking order.
Dan Ward-Smith has had no form at all since his come back from the nasty leg injury he suffered, plus age is not on his side.
Narraway was only selected because Easter wasn't fit in the first game.
Forrester has done little for a long time and has had a string of injuries.
Crane has being play well for both Leicester and England Saxons and should be called into the squad soon. He has also Captained both sides.

Easter is Deff the No.1 No.8 we have and rightly so. I think his performances have all been pretty decent in a pack that has struggled and is one of very few players that seems to talk, organise and encourage those around him on the park.

[DJC]

Im not quite sure how Balshaw is still in the side no matter how well/badly Wilkinson is playing!

I think though that if Ashton wanted to play a little he could have dome something more interesting. So Sinbad has injured himself again, give Varndell a go out wide, Sackey and Varndell the 2 flyers of the Prem would be a good start. For goodness sake Josh back at fb and Tait and Hipkiss together in the midfield and fed by Cipriani at fly half. Now *that* would have been an interesting England back line. Given licence to go out and play, no pressure on them, it would have been a worthwhile exercise.

[stimmers]

DJC said:

Im not quite sure how Balshaw is still in the side no matter how well/badly Wilkinson is playing!

I think though that if Ashton wanted to play a little he could have dome something more interesting. So Sinbad has injured himself again, give Varndell a go out wide, Sackey and Varndell the 2 flyers of the Prem would be a good start. For goodness sake Josh back at fb and Tait and Hipkiss together in the midfield and fed by Cipriani at fly half. Now *that* would have been an interesting England back line. Given licence to go out and play, no pressure on them, it would have been a worthwhile exercise.

Actually Balshaw didnt do to bad vs Scotland, but your right, he has to go simply because he isn't good enough and we have better players in his position.
Hipkiss can't even get a start at Tigers at the moment, im not sure whats going on with him, but agree with regards to Tait and add in Ollie Smith. Clarket Saints looks the complete 13 at the moment, but i guess he needs to look the part in the prem too before Eng comes calling.
Vainikolo shouldn't be there, again we have better players and he needs more time playing for Glouc.

Im very interested to see how Cipriani will change the way Flood and Noon play. Especially the 10-12 combo

Edited by stimmers on Wednesday 12th March 17:03

[DJC]

stimmers said:

DJC said:

Im not quite sure how Balshaw is still in the side no matter how well/badly Wilkinson is playing!

I think though that if Ashton wanted to play a little he could have dome something more interesting. So Sinbad has injured himself again, give Varndell a go out wide, Sackey and Varndell the 2 flyers of the Prem would be a good start. For goodness sake Josh back at fb and Tait and Hipkiss together in the midfield and fed by Cipriani at fly half. Now *that* would have been an interesting England back line. Given licence to go out and play, no pressure on them, it would have been a worthwhile exercise.

Actually Balshaw didnt do to bad vs Scotland, but your right, he has to go simply because he isn't good enough and we have better players in his position.
Hipkiss can't even get a start at Tigers at the moment, im not sure whats going on with him, but agree with regards to Tait and add in Ollie Smith. Clarket Saints looks the complete 13 at the moment, but i guess he needs to look the part in the prem too before Eng comes calling.
Vainikolo shouldn't be there, again we have better players and he needs more time playing for Glouc.

Im very interested to see how Cipriani will change the way Flood and Noon play. Especially the 10-12 combo

Edited by stimmers on Wednesday 12th March 17:03

Im glad Im not the only person in England who has heard of Clarke! It was a shame for him that Saints when down as they did, but fair play to the lad and Hartley, they have stuck with them even though they are in Div I. Both players are class and just one look at Hartley in his 20mins against Ireland A would have told massive amounts to even those who hadnt seen him play before that this lad was International class. Hipkiss to me is the complete 13 at the moment, certainly the most well rounded in England, but of course he isnt going to develop if he isnt given the game time at the top level! How can a go who was playing for England in the WC final suddenly find himself surplus to requirements? I suppose the quip answer is ask Cueto and Josh!