6 Nations predictions
Discussion
So how long til Italy get a really big scalp in the six nations do we think?
Personally i still reckon they are getting short thrift- everyone still considers them to be the Italy of old, but they haven't been lke that for a year or two.
Still reckon it would be fun to have a 7 nations with the Argies, although it would make more sense to have a quad nations.
Personally i still reckon they are getting short thrift- everyone still considers them to be the Italy of old, but they haven't been lke that for a year or two.
Still reckon it would be fun to have a 7 nations with the Argies, although it would make more sense to have a quad nations.
pugwash4x4 said:
So how long til Italy get a really big scalp in the six nations do we think?
Personally i still reckon they are getting short thrift- everyone still considers them to be the Italy of old, but they haven't been lke that for a year or two.
Still reckon it would be fun to have a 7 nations with the Argies, although it would make more sense to have a quad nations.
Italy could easily beat some teams at home. They already have done in past 6 Nations. They have a very serious pack and a couple of good centres. The rest of their backline is their weakness. Any team that gets caught up in a forwards battle with Italy could come off 2nd best. They have the best coach in world rugby.Personally i still reckon they are getting short thrift- everyone still considers them to be the Italy of old, but they haven't been lke that for a year or two.
Still reckon it would be fun to have a 7 nations with the Argies, although it would make more sense to have a quad nations.
The Argentina debate is tough. There is no point them playing in a quad nations as all their top players play in Europe and their clubs wouldn't release them for the games. We don't want a 7 nations, but Arg have to have a place in a decent tournament.
A 2 tier European tournament has been thought about to replace the 6 Nations with more teams coming in with relegation and promotion. Not so sure about that although there should be a 2nd tier tournament under the 6 Nations to help develop the likes of Romania, Potugal etc
The best bet for Argentina would be to give them a Super 14 slot. This would create interest in their own country, help more kids want to be rugby players and possibly keep some of their best players in their own country enabling them a few years down the line to enter the Tri Nations and compete
I ws recently in Argentina and was staggered by how low rugby still is on the radar over there despite their world cup. It wasn't love of rugby that got the whole country behind the puma's, its was patriotic nature to support and get behind anything Argentinian regardless of what it is. Once thats over, they lose interest
Edited by stimmers on Thursday 14th February 17:30
Edited by stimmers on Thursday 14th February 17:31
stimmers said:
pugwash4x4 said:
So how long til Italy get a really big scalp in the six nations do we think?
Personally i still reckon they are getting short thrift- everyone still considers them to be the Italy of old, but they haven't been lke that for a year or two.
Still reckon it would be fun to have a 7 nations with the Argies, although it would make more sense to have a quad nations.
Italy could easily beat some teams at home. They already have done in past 6 Nations. They have a very serious pack and a couple of good centres. The rest of their backline is their weakness. Any team that gets caught up in a forwards battle with Italy could come off 2nd best. They have the best coach in world rugby.Personally i still reckon they are getting short thrift- everyone still considers them to be the Italy of old, but they haven't been lke that for a year or two.
Still reckon it would be fun to have a 7 nations with the Argies, although it would make more sense to have a quad nations.
The Argentina debate is tough. There is no point them playing in a quad nations as all their top players play in Europe and their clubs wouldn't release them for the games. We don't want a 7 nations, but Arg have to have a place in a decent tournament.
A 2 tier European tournament has been thought about to replace the 6 Nations with more teams coming in with relegation and promotion. Not so sure about that although there should be a 2nd tier tournament under the 6 Nations to help develop the likes of Romania, Potugal etc
The best bet for Argentina would be to give them a Super 14 slot. This would create interest in their own country, help more kids want to be rugby players and possibly keep some of their best players in their own country enabling them a few years down the line to enter the Tri Nations and compete
I ws recently in Argentina and was staggered by how low rugby still is on the radar over there despite their world cup. It wasn't love of rugby that got the whole country behind the puma's, its was patriotic nature to support and get behind anything Argentinian regardless of what it is. Once thats over, they lose interest
Edited by stimmers on Thursday 14th February 17:30
Edited by stimmers on Thursday 14th February 17:31
, if any team gets drawn into a forwards push n' shove with the italian pack they run the risk of coming off second best. The italian problem is converting pressure into points (bar a few noticable wins). Messi looks okay but he isnt a fly half and hasn't got really got any quality around him who can hit the right angles, they drift terribly!I don't think Argentina should be in the 6N, makeing a base for them in Spain or Portugal isn't the answer either, they are a SH team and their fans deserve home games, . It would be great if they could feed into the S14 but I can't see the French clubs giving up their players.
disco1 said:
Right then chaps, lets have your predictions, heres mine:
Wales 29 Italy 12
Ireland 23 Scotland 15
France 25 England 19
Shame that Italy have lost Bortolussi, I do think Wales will have too much all round for them at the Millennium. 25-15 feels about right. I think Scotland can surprise Ireland - neither team have shown much so far, but I see the Scots as having potential whereas the Irish are old, creaking and leaderless without O' Connell. 18-21.Wales 29 Italy 12
Ireland 23 Scotland 15
France 25 England 19
Anything could happen in Paris. England could draw France in and stuff them up front. France could cut loose in the back three. Based on what we have seen so far it must be said that France have to be favourites, but I fancy England to defy the critics and put in their best performance of the tournament. 21-24.
pugwash4x4 said:
So how long til Italy get a really big scalp in the six nations do we think?
Well, they've already beaten Wales, Scotland and Ireland and come within a whisker of beating England, so the obvious answer is not long. Their forwards are a match for almost anyone, and as stimmers says, they now have an outstanding coach. But their backs need some work, their half backs, in particular, are especially poor at the moment. If today's Italy had Troncon and Dominguez at half back they'd be a formidable team and would certainly have put England to the sword last week.dickymint said:
Italy v Wales last year still makes me shudder 23-20 then the cock up of how much time left to play 
Indeed, what a bloody shambles! 
disco1 said:
Right then chaps, lets have your predictions, heres mine:
Wales 29 Italy 12
Ireland 23 Scotland 15
France 25 England 19
I see you've had the good sense to make Scotland's score divisible by 3. Wales 29 Italy 12
Ireland 23 Scotland 15
France 25 England 19
My guess would be:
Wales 19 Italy 9
Ireland 24 Scotland 12
France 21 England 18
What do you think this will fetch (2 hours to go).........
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wales-v-France-Six-Nations-R...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wales-v-France-Six-Nations-R...
My predictions are Wales by 10, Ireland by a couple of pens in a close game and France by 10.
About Argentina. I think they need and deserve to be integrated into a competition much like the Italians were. Look how its brought on the Italian game since.
I disagree completely with the notion that they should be invited into the 6N on the basis that most of their players already play here. To me its a no-brainer that they should take part in a SH tournament - the issue is though the availability of European based players for that tournament.
Is there not already a rule whereby clubs are obliged to release players on approved international fixture dates? Could this be enforced so Argentinian players could be released to play?
Another point is the above situation relates to how things stand at the moment. I'm not sure how receptive SH club teams (NPC level or S14 for example) are to players from outside the country? Perhaps some kind of effort could be made for Argentinians to play in SA, Oz or NZ given that club rugby in Argentina is so far below par and their cream has to play overseas.
On a wider point I also believe that Fiji, Samoa, Tonga should perhaps unite to form a permanent Pacific Islands team which could perhaps in time also compete in a potential SH 5 Nations.
In my opinion, as seperate entities they don't have the resources to form strong enough individual teams - and hence the talent from these countries inevitably drifts to New Zealand and the AB's end up receiving the benefit of having the cream of the PI players.
About Argentina. I think they need and deserve to be integrated into a competition much like the Italians were. Look how its brought on the Italian game since.
I disagree completely with the notion that they should be invited into the 6N on the basis that most of their players already play here. To me its a no-brainer that they should take part in a SH tournament - the issue is though the availability of European based players for that tournament.
Is there not already a rule whereby clubs are obliged to release players on approved international fixture dates? Could this be enforced so Argentinian players could be released to play?
Another point is the above situation relates to how things stand at the moment. I'm not sure how receptive SH club teams (NPC level or S14 for example) are to players from outside the country? Perhaps some kind of effort could be made for Argentinians to play in SA, Oz or NZ given that club rugby in Argentina is so far below par and their cream has to play overseas.
On a wider point I also believe that Fiji, Samoa, Tonga should perhaps unite to form a permanent Pacific Islands team which could perhaps in time also compete in a potential SH 5 Nations.
In my opinion, as seperate entities they don't have the resources to form strong enough individual teams - and hence the talent from these countries inevitably drifts to New Zealand and the AB's end up receiving the benefit of having the cream of the PI players.
dickymint said:
What do you think this will fetch (2 hours to go).........
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wales-v-France-Six-Nations-R...
Wise decision to sell the ticket now before the Ireland game. I think Wales will either win the grand slam or lose to both Ireland and France. The key is the Ireland game. Wales win that and i'll back them to do the Frogs, lose it (which i think you will, the 2nd half in Paris was massive for the Irish), then i think you'll go on to lose to France too.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wales-v-France-Six-Nations-R...
France 24 England 20
Wales 29 Italy 14
Ireland 34 Scotland 12
(Crusaders vs Brumbies and Waratahs vs Wellington tonight - two cracking first up games in the Super 14 - Good to see the have refused to trial the 'maul's can be pulled down rule'.
Super 14 i think we see the Kiwi sides storm back this season and the Bulls from SA have a say. Can't wait to see what young, super talented youngsters the crusaders can produced this season)
[quote=Mon Ami Mate I think Scotland can surprise Ireland - neither team have shown much so far, but I see the Scots as having potential whereas the Irish are old, creaking and leaderless without O' Connell
[/quote]
Ireland looked poor 1st half vs France but 2nd half they came out and in the forwards blew the French away and stormed back into the game. They showed the skill, passion and desire everyone though we would see from them in the World Cup. I think that 2nd half is massive for Ireland and cannot see them losing at home to anyone from now on.
Really like Trimble as a player either on the wing or as a centre, creates space and hits gaps, something most National teams are lacking.
[/quote]
Ireland looked poor 1st half vs France but 2nd half they came out and in the forwards blew the French away and stormed back into the game. They showed the skill, passion and desire everyone though we would see from them in the World Cup. I think that 2nd half is massive for Ireland and cannot see them losing at home to anyone from now on.
Really like Trimble as a player either on the wing or as a centre, creates space and hits gaps, something most National teams are lacking.
hornetrider said:
My predictions are Wales by 10, Ireland by a couple of pens in a close game and France by 10.
About Argentina. I think they need and deserve to be integrated into a competition much like the Italians were. Look how its brought on the Italian game since.
I disagree completely with the notion that they should be invited into the 6N on the basis that most of their players already play here. To me its a no-brainer that they should take part in a SH tournament - the issue is though the availability of European based players for that tournament.
Is there not already a rule whereby clubs are obliged to release players on approved international fixture dates? Could this be enforced so Argentinian players could be released to play?
Another point is the above situation relates to how things stand at the moment. I'm not sure how receptive SH club teams (NPC level or S14 for example) are to players from outside the country? Perhaps some kind of effort could be made for Argentinians to play in SA, Oz or NZ given that club rugby in Argentina is so far below par and their cream has to play overseas.
On a wider point I also believe that Fiji, Samoa, Tonga should perhaps unite to form a permanent Pacific Islands team which could perhaps in time also compete in a potential SH 5 Nations.
In my opinion, as seperate entities they don't have the resources to form strong enough individual teams - and hence the talent from these countries inevitably drifts to New Zealand and the AB's end up receiving the benefit of having the cream of the PI players.
European Clubs have SH players bent over as far as contracts go. The clubs want to sign quality SH players but there would be little point if they we having to travel back to te SH to play International games. Especially during the Tri Nations as the players could either be gone for a couple of months during a critical part of the European domestic season, or be travelling back and forth playing games which would obviously damage the performance of the player for both club and country. Its the reason why New Zealand, South Africa and Australia will not pick anyone who doesn't play their rugby in the SH.About Argentina. I think they need and deserve to be integrated into a competition much like the Italians were. Look how its brought on the Italian game since.
I disagree completely with the notion that they should be invited into the 6N on the basis that most of their players already play here. To me its a no-brainer that they should take part in a SH tournament - the issue is though the availability of European based players for that tournament.
Is there not already a rule whereby clubs are obliged to release players on approved international fixture dates? Could this be enforced so Argentinian players could be released to play?
Another point is the above situation relates to how things stand at the moment. I'm not sure how receptive SH club teams (NPC level or S14 for example) are to players from outside the country? Perhaps some kind of effort could be made for Argentinians to play in SA, Oz or NZ given that club rugby in Argentina is so far below par and their cream has to play overseas.
On a wider point I also believe that Fiji, Samoa, Tonga should perhaps unite to form a permanent Pacific Islands team which could perhaps in time also compete in a potential SH 5 Nations.
In my opinion, as seperate entities they don't have the resources to form strong enough individual teams - and hence the talent from these countries inevitably drifts to New Zealand and the AB's end up receiving the benefit of having the cream of the PI players.
As for foreign players in the Super 14, pretty much non exsistant. This is th main reason why these guys down there are better than us and produce more top players than us. Because their club and provincial sides are 99% made up of players who can represent their country. No Jonny Wilkinson's, Martin William's or Jauzions taking the place of young Kiwi's, Aussies or SA's. It gives them a bigger pool of players to choose from, it gives their talented young players more exposure to top level rugby which means they develop better and faster than in the NH.
No way on earth will you see many more foreign players in SH club/provincial rugby. (its the same argumentas why Brazil and Argentina produce more players in football than we do, their domestic league is full of home grown players).
As for Fiji, Tonga, Samoa having their own tournament, damm right, spot on. But i cannot disgaree more with your comments about talented PI players drifint towards NZ. That simply isn't true. Out of all the PI players that end up player for NZ, i think its all but 4 have emigrated to New Zealand before they were 8 years old for family economic reasons, well well before any rugby talent has emerged. The Kiwi's do not steal PI talented players, thats a myth. The do the same as England have done with Mike Catt, Matt Stevens, Lesley Vainikolo and hopefully will do with Ricki Flutey
stimmers said:
Ireland looked poor 1st half vs France but 2nd half they came out and in the forwards blew the French away and stormed back into the game. They showed the skill, passion and desire everyone though we would see from them in the World Cup. I think that 2nd half is massive for Ireland and cannot see them losing at home to anyone from now on.
Really like Trimble as a player either on the wing or as a centre, creates space and hits gaps, something most National teams are lacking.
I thought France really stopped playing in the second half and made Ireland look much better than they are.Really like Trimble as a player either on the wing or as a centre, creates space and hits gaps, something most National teams are lacking.
Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Friday 15th February 13:54
TheGreatSoprendo said:
Slightly O/T, but does anyone have a fixture list for the Autumn Internationals? I'm struggling to find it anywhere...
1.11.08New Zealand v Australia (Hong Kong)
8.11.08
England v Pacific Islanders
Ireland v Canada
Scotland v New Zealand
Wales v South Africa
15.11.08
England v Australia
Ireland v New Zealand
Wales v Canada
19.11.08
Munster v New Zealand
22.11.08
England v South Africa
Ireland v Argentina
Wales v New Zealand
Scotland v Canada
29.11.08
England v New Zealand
Wales v Australia
Unsureof date
Barbarians v Australia
France v Pacific Islanders
France v Argentina
France v Australia
Scotland v South Africa
Italy v Australia
Italy v Argentina
Italy v Pacific Islanders
Rumoured
NZ v Stade Francais
NZ v English Club
NZ v Welsh Club
stimmers said:
What a game Bath vs Wasps was today. Why the hell can't those England muppets do it in a white shirt??? Possibly one of the best games i have ever seen. Lewsey must be brought back into the Eng 15 shirt
Bath 34 Wasps 42
I was at the Rec and it was a great attacking game, but slightly spoilt by some poor defending and poor refereeing of the scrums, lineouts and offside line. Bath didn't show up for the first 20 minutes of the second ahlf but Wasps, and Cipriani in particular, were outstanding.Bath 34 Wasps 42
Mon Ami Mate said:
Bath didn't show up for the first 20 minutes of the second ahlf but Wasps, and Cipriani in particular, were outstanding.
I'm surprised you say that, agree with what you say about Bath but not Cipriani. Only watched the repeat this morning as I was playing yesterday. I thought Cipriani was pretty average, good try but then pretty quiet and how many touches did he miss and goal kicks - 50%ish...? The reason that Wasps got on top, to my mind, was that Waldouck (who was outstanding) linked really well with Haskell in the midfield. Thought those two and Lewsey has really good games, Lewsey has to be back in the England squad on that performance. Cipriani has to be in the squad but he is nowhere near a starter yet.Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff