New England Rugby Squad...

[johnnywb]

England squad:
Backs: Balshaw (Gloucester), Cipriani (Wasps), Cueto (Sale Sharks), Flood (Newcastle), Gomarsall (Harlequins), Hodgson (Sale Sharks), Noon (Newcastle), Richards (London Irish), Sackey (Wasps), Strettle (Harlequins), Tait (Newcastle), Tindall (Gloucester), Wigglesworth (Sale), Wilkinson (Newcastle), Vainikolo (Gloucester).
Forwards: Borthwick (Bath), Croft (Leicester), Chuter (Leicester), L Deacon (Leicester), Easter (Harlequins), Haskell (Wasps), Kay (Leicester), Mears (Bath), Moody (Leicester), Payne (Wasps), Rees (Wasps), Regan (Bristol), Shaw (Wasps), Sheridan (Sale), Stevens (Bath), Vickery (Wasps, capt), Worsley (Wasps).

Farrell dropped - good, hasn't performed, but dropping Lewsey and Hipkiss, really?!

[stimmers]

johnnywb said:

England squad:
Backs: Balshaw (Gloucester), Cipriani (Wasps), Cueto (Sale Sharks), Flood (Newcastle), Gomarsall (Harlequins), Hodgson (Sale Sharks), Noon (Newcastle), Richards (London Irish), Sackey (Wasps), Strettle (Harlequins), Tait (Newcastle), Tindall (Gloucester), Wigglesworth (Sale), Wilkinson (Newcastle), Vainikolo (Gloucester).
Forwards: Borthwick (Bath), Croft (Leicester), Chuter (Leicester), L Deacon (Leicester), Easter (Harlequins), Haskell (Wasps), Kay (Leicester), Mears (Bath), Moody (Leicester), Payne (Wasps), Rees (Wasps), Regan (Bristol), Shaw (Wasps), Sheridan (Sale), Stevens (Bath), Vickery (Wasps, capt), Worsley (Wasps).

Farrell dropped - good, hasn't performed, but dropping Lewsey and Hipkiss, really?!

No Varndell, James Simpson-Daniel, Hikpiss, Smith, Kennedy, Lipman, Lund, Abendenon,

Why is Vickery captain when Stevens is the better player? Not happy at all with Deacon, Balshaw, Cueto, Payne, Richards, Mears and Worsley.
Vainikolo played Rugby League for NZ, Im my eyes he wants to play International Rugby it should be for NZ or Tonga. Not England.

Great to see Coft (who will be an Eng great), Cipriani, Haskell in !!!

So no Glouc forwards and no Tigers backs in the squad !!!!! hmmm

Not that happy overall

[johnnywb]

Yep i agree.

Seem to be some very strange choices in there.

Vainikolo should be playing for Tonga or NZ. Also, how many league players have made the change work at international level? Farrell hasn't, Paul didn't, Robinson did, but he seems to be the exception. Not a fan of eligibility on residency grounds.

Ah well, guess we'll have to wait and see, but if i were any of the players on your list, i'd be pretty annoyed. Some of them must be wondering what they need to do to earn a place.

[BigMansZetec]

I think the squad is OK. They haven't tried to rush all the young guns in straight away, so I think it has a good balance.

Someone mentioned no Gloucester backs and no Leicester backs, but is that really a big suprise. Glos play a very backs orintated game, whereas the Tigers have the opposite. Having said that, Hipkiss is a bit unlucky.

Not sure why Hodgson is there really, not really moving forward is it, bringing a player back or has never really stepped up in international rugby.
Farrel doesn't deserve a place, so pleased he's not in and as for Vainikolo, I think thats a good decision with his current form, but I doubt he will be one of the first choice wingers.

Overall, not bad.

[stimmers]

BigMansZetec said:

I think the squad is OK. They haven't tried to rush all the young guns in straight away, so I think it has a good balance.

Someone mentioned no Gloucester backs and no Leicester backs, but is that really a big suprise. Glos play a very backs orintated game, whereas the Tigers have the opposite. Having said that, Hipkiss is a bit unlucky.

Not sure why Hodgson is there really, not really moving forward is it, bringing a player back or has never really stepped up in international rugby.
Farrel doesn't deserve a place, so pleased he's not in and as for Vainikolo, I think thats a good decision with his current form, but I doubt he will be one of the first choice wingers.

Overall, not bad.

Tigers don't don't play a full of forward game, not at all. Just because you have a dominant pack doesn't mean your playing a forward dominated game.
Have you seen the Tigers backline recently, or even catch the game vs Quins

9 - Christophe Laussucq (ok not the best but Ellis is out till March)
10 - Goode
11 Varndell
12 Mauger
13 Smith
14 J.Murphy
15 G. Murhpy

Not to mention the likes of Hipkiss, Erinle, Vesty, Rabeni, Cornwell, Dodge, Tuilagi, Humphreys, Ben and Tom Youngs

Anyone who looks at the backs Leicester have and who has seen them play this season and says that the Tigers play a forward only game needs his head read.

[stimmers]

BigMansZetec said:

I think the squad is OK. They haven't tried to rush all the young guns in straight away, so I think it has a good balance.

Someone mentioned no Gloucester backs and no Leicester backs, but is that really a big suprise. Glos play a very backs orintated game, whereas the Tigers have the opposite. Having said that, Hipkiss is a bit unlucky.

Not sure why Hodgson is there really, not really moving forward is it, bringing a player back or has never really stepped up in international rugby.
Farrel doesn't deserve a place, so pleased he's not in and as for Vainikolo, I think thats a good decision with his current form, but I doubt he will be one of the first choice wingers.

Overall, not bad.

Tigers don't play a full of forward game, not at all. Just because you have a dominant pack doesn't mean your playing a forward dominated game.
Have you seen the Tigers backline recently, or even catch the game vs Quins

9 - Christophe Laussucq (ok not the best but Ellis is out till March)
10 - Goode
11 Varndell
12 Mauger
13 Smith
14 J.Murphy
15 G. Murhpy

Not to mention the likes of Hipkiss, Erinle, Vesty, Rabeni, Cornwell, Dodge, Tuilagi, Humphreys, Ben and Tom Youngs

Anyone who looks at the backs Leicester have and who has seen them play this season and says that the Tigers play a forward only game needs his head read.

Which young gun have they not selected. I'll give you Kennedy and Allen, but who else? The rest seem to be there.
Hodgson is on fire for Sale at the moment, Ashton maybe thinks he can get him doing the same for Eng as they haven't worked together before.

Players have clearly not been selected on form, which annoys me.

Edited by stimmers on Wednesday 9th January 20:04

[BigMansZetec]

A lot of the Tigers good backline ball comes courtesy of the forwards, whereas Glos are more 'flashy' with the backs. Oh and forward orientated doesn't mean "forwards only". Unfotunately the backs always get the credit becasue they score the tries, like you say in the Quins game with Varndell.

As for what young guns have they missed, you listed them in you first post. Anyway that was no way a critisim, I said the balance seems good.

Picking either Lamb or Geraghty would have been better than Hodgson whos England future is limited.

Edited by BigMansZetec on Wednesday 9th January 22:18

[stimmers]

BigMansZetec said:

A lot of the Tigers good backline ball comes courtesy of the forwards, whereas Glos are more 'flashy' with the backs. Oh and forward orientated doesn't mean "forwards only". Unfotunately the backs always get the credit becasue they score the tries, like you say in the Quins game with Varndell.

As for what young guns have they missed, you listed them in you first post. Anyway that was no way a critisim, I said the balance seems good.

Picking either Lamb or Geraghty would have been better than Hodgson whos England future is limited.

Edited by BigMansZetec on Wednesday 9th January 22:18

Erm, Varndell got a hat trick vs Quins. One is from a set up by great play by Mauger, one is direct from a kick off and the other was from a very inventive kick from Goode. So his hat trick had a lot to do with creative play from his backs, not the forwards. Forwards keeping their own ball is what they are supposed to do and there to do. I personally think the Tigers pack haven't been that great this season. Especially with the absence of Shane Jennings.

Gerahty is a one trick pony who will never make it an International Level. The guy should have gone to Ireland as he'll never start for England. Lamb is a very decent player, but he is very slight and im pretty sure the opposition back row would highlight his channel in attack.
As i say Hodgson has played great this season and deserves his place in the squad. He's a very talented player.

Young Guns, Varndell, James Simpson-Daniel, Hikpiss, Smith, Lipman, Lund and Abendenon have all been capped previously and all have a lot of experience at 1st team level in the GP and the HC

[BigMansZetec]

Well that Quins game doesn't really illustrate my point, backs are always going to have a good game, when the opposition is having trouble, two Leicester props did score against London Irish though. Anyway this thread isn't really about the domestic game.

My concern with Hodgson is that he will never be first choice for England, and I feel it would make sense to give someone younger with an England future a chance.

[stimmers]

BigMansZetec said:

My concern with Hodgson is that he will never be first choice for England, and I feel it would make sense to give someone younger with an England future a chance.

Hodgson has a game that could suit 12 pretty well and with Wilkinson inside him could take the pressure of him. I also know that Ashton, as Woodward did, is also looking at Wilko as a 12 too if Flood doesn't stand up to International rugby

[J_D_Stagpump]

Vainokolo qualifies under the residensy rule and I think that he should be allowed to play.
After all martin johnson played for the kiwi under 21s.
As an extremly frustrated Sarries, Spurs and England fan I am all for the anyone can play as long as they play well theory to team selection.
Oh of course unless they are french, then rugby or footie They should just bugger off to the gooners.

[stimmers]

J_D_Stagpump said:

Vainokolo qualifies under the residensy rule and I think that he should be allowed to play.
After all martin johnson played for the kiwi under 21s.

Martin Johnson was born in Solihull in England. He stayed in England until he was 19 and then the great Colin Meads offered him the chance to play for King County in NZ to develop him as a rugby player. Sure he played for NZ U21 while over there, but being born in Eng and spending his first 19 years of his life in England and less than 1 in NZ, is hardly the same as a Tongan (born to Kiwi parents) who played for New Zealand rugby league now suddenly being English cos he lived here for 3 years. Its utter crap. Same with Henry Paul.

If you played top level sport for a country, then you have chosen you allegiance and you should have to stick with it. Sorry, regardless of his ability he shouldnt be playing for England


ps Sarries have just been given £10 million by a South African Investor. Cue Sarries becoming the dumping ground of Saffa rugby. I also hear Eddie Jones is the new coach as of next year ????

Edited by stimmers on Friday 11th January 18:39

Edited by stimmers on Friday 11th January 19:22

[Kermit power]

stimmers said:

J_D_Stagpump said:

Vainokolo qualifies under the residensy rule and I think that he should be allowed to play.
After all martin johnson played for the kiwi under 21s.

Martin Johnson was born in Solihull in England. He stayed in England until he was 19 and then the great Colin Meads offered him the chance to play for King County in NZ to develop him as a rugby player. Sure he played for NZ U21 while over there, but being born in Eng and spending his first 19 years of his life in England and less than 1 in NZ, is hardly the same as a Tongan (born to Kiwi parents) who played for New Zealand rugby league now suddenly being English cos he lived here for 3 years. Its utter crap. Same with Henry Paul.

If you played top level sport for a country, then you have chosen you allegiance and you should have to stick with it. Sorry, regardless of his ability he shouldnt be playing for England

Totally agree. He might be good, and it might win us a few games in the short term, but how exactly does it encourage the growth of more home grown talent?

In my view, you play for the country of your birth. Anything else just sullies that nationality and the one you play for. I suppose it rather depends on whether or not you consider nationality to be an important thing or not.