Discussion
noony said:
You sad, sad, bitter losers. 
do you always form your opinions based on what is written in the sun?
So you're saying we should just sit down and let him cheat his way to the World Cup? do you always form your opinions based on what is written in the sun?
We're not solely blaming Ronaldo for England's poor showing and exit in the WC - this is down to a number of things (in order of importance):
1. SGE's lack of tactical nouse
2. Poor refereeing (the ref sent him off for the shove, whatever he said 24hrs later after watching the video)
3. Ronaldo emploring the ref to send off Rooney and...
4. Rooney being a petulant child and catering to Ronaldo's whim
noony said:
You sad, sad, bitter losers.
do you always form your opinions based on what is written in the sun?
do you always form your opinions based on what is written in the sun?
Is that the same Noony who posts on fcars?
The big ManUtd/Ronaldo fan
You'll just have to accept that many people aren't so much bitter, just don't want to see the beautiful game brought into disrepute by prima donnas who's rather do ballet routines than play football.
Even FIFA didn't think he was worth the plaudits.
PS You're not bitter that your main man's missed the prize are you?
Murph7355 said:
noony said:
You sad, sad, bitter losers.
do you always form your opinions based on what is written in the sun?
do you always form your opinions based on what is written in the sun?
Is that the same Noony who posts on fcars?
The big ManUtd/Ronaldo fan
You'll just have to accept that many people aren't so much bitter, just don't want to see the beautiful game brought into disrepute by prima donnas who's rather do ballet routines than play football.
Even FIFA didn't think he was worth the plaudits.
PS You're not bitter that your main man's missed the prize are you?
Yep,England going out was a blow for someone as passionate as myself but with hindsight knowing Sven was in charge we didnt stand a realistic chance of winning it anyway.
To me Ronaldo is a different matter all together, and other than the diving there are certain actions that stick in my mind after events that make some players seem like dirty caniving cheats,one was the sight of Batistuta hands on hips nodding intensley when the ref sent Beckham off and the other is Ronaldo winking after Rooney walked.
ZR1cliff said:
Yep,England going out was a blow for someone as passionate as myself but with hindsight knowing Sven was in charge we didnt stand a realistic chance of winning it anyway.
.
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To be fair, its not Svens fault that Owen messed up his knee. If Owen was fit, he would have been able to play Rooney in his preferred position.
JagLover said:
ZR1cliff said:
Yep,England going out was a blow for someone as passionate as myself but with hindsight knowing Sven was in charge we didnt stand a realistic chance of winning it anyway.
.
.
To be fair, its not Svens fault that Owen messed up his knee. If Owen was fit, he would have been able to play Rooney in his preferred position.
Gotta tell you this guys; opened the thread, saw the first post and was as good as closing/deleting the thread before reading any further.
What came was not the tyrade of abuse that the original poster wanted (or indeed deserve) but instead a very good and worthwhile discussion. Bravo.
What came was not the tyrade of abuse that the original poster wanted (or indeed deserve) but instead a very good and worthwhile discussion. Bravo.
puggit said:
JagLover said:
ZR1cliff said:
Yep,England going out was a blow for someone as passionate as myself but with hindsight knowing Sven was in charge we didnt stand a realistic chance of winning it anyway.
.
.
To be fair, its not Svens fault that Owen messed up his knee. If Owen was fit, he would have been able to play Rooney in his preferred position.
True; though a fit Owen is probably the only first class finisher we have. All I am saying is that going into the Portugal game Svens options were limited.
It has to be said of many (and mostly foreign) footballers how they cheat by screaming with pain after innocuous challenges... all to try and gain an advantage which, it seems, is mostly to get an opposing team-player sent off.
They should be reminded that this is a professianal game and they too are (supposed to be) ambassadors for their chosen sport.
I'm not all that impressed with Ronaldo's hit and miss step-over skills and to see him act in such a way (Rooneygate) goes to show how he's abusing his (privileged) position and how such behaviour should be driven out.
They should be reminded that this is a professianal game and they too are (supposed to be) ambassadors for their chosen sport.
I'm not all that impressed with Ronaldo's hit and miss step-over skills and to see him act in such a way (Rooneygate) goes to show how he's abusing his (privileged) position and how such behaviour should be driven out.
noony said:
You sad, sad, bitter losers.
do you always form your opinions based on what is written in the sun?
do you always form your opinions based on what is written in the sun?
You come out of exile to post that?
You sad f..k.
I don't blame Ronaldo. I blame the ref. Being polite I'd say he may be incompetent, Being blunt I'd say he was corrupt. Either way the barsteward should not be reffing the final.
DAZ
Still undecided then, Daz? 
What has puzzled me is the ref has said in his statement that he gave the card because of the stamp - but looking at the footage there is absolutely no doubt at all that he was never even going near his pocket.
Anyway - I thought the ref in the France Portugal game was bloody good (though perhaps a couple of cards for the divers would have put pay to it early on) but he did do well - he should have got the final I think, not old soppy bollox from our game.
What has puzzled me is the ref has said in his statement that he gave the card because of the stamp - but looking at the footage there is absolutely no doubt at all that he was never even going near his pocket.
Anyway - I thought the ref in the France Portugal game was bloody good (though perhaps a couple of cards for the divers would have put pay to it early on) but he did do well - he should have got the final I think, not old soppy bollox from our game.
JagLover said:
ZR1cliff said:
Yep,England going out was a blow for someone as passionate as myself but with hindsight knowing Sven was in charge we didnt stand a realistic chance of winning it anyway.
.
.
To be fair, its not Svens fault that Owen messed up his knee. If Owen was fit, he would have been able to play Rooney in his preferred position.
Then why didnt Sven stand by his choices and go for it,he had Theo on the bench aswell as crouch,i know people will say Theo is an inexperienced kid but in Svens eyes he was Englands 4th choice striker and rated him better than Defoe etc, and surely a fully fit defoe would of been better than a partialy fit Owen,after all is Owen that good that he warrants a place before fit players?.
I feel that Svens choices and inability to use them to the full extent was typical of his managing skills,i know its all dreams but ide love to see what Venables or Big Sam would of done with the same squad or what players they would of picked.
Edited by ZR1cliff on Friday 7th July 16:11
ZR1cliff said:
JagLover said:
ZR1cliff said:
Yep,England going out was a blow for someone as passionate as myself but with hindsight knowing Sven was in charge we didnt stand a realistic chance of winning it anyway.
.
.
To be fair, its not Svens fault that Owen messed up his knee. If Owen was fit, he would have been able to play Rooney in his preferred position.
Then why didnt Sven stand by his choices and go for it,he had Theo on the bench aswell as crouch,i know people will say Theo is an inexperienced kid but in Svens eyes he was Englands 4th choice striker and rated him better than Defoe etc, and surely a fully fit defoe would of been better than a partialy fit Owen,after all is Owen that good that he warents a place before fit players?.
I feel that Svens choices and inability to use them to the full extent was typical of his managing skills,i know its all dreams but ide love to see what Venables or Big Sam would of done with the same squad or what players they would of picked.
Perhaps England would have done better with a better manager. But I don't think we should run Sven down too much. He achieved some decent results during his time in charge, qualifying for all three tournaments and reaching the quarters of each. I have the feeling that were it not for the freak injury to Owen England would have reached the Semis at least this time.
It is because England failed to go further than the quarter finals this time with our so called 'golden generation' that Sven is being savaged by the media. But not all of the factors behind that failure were within his control. England's only two strikers who have proved themselves at the international level were both injured going into the tournament and England faced unusually hot temparatures in Germany, for the location.
The commentators were saying that the heat should not be an excuse, but the only time England have won a world cup was on home soil, with our own climate. How can England play the type of game they play all year round in the premiership in 30c plus?.
Edited by JagLover on Friday 7th July 16:22
JagLover said:
ZR1cliff said:
JagLover said:
ZR1cliff said:
Yep,England going out was a blow for someone as passionate as myself but with hindsight knowing Sven was in charge we didnt stand a realistic chance of winning it anyway.
.
.
To be fair, its not Svens fault that Owen messed up his knee. If Owen was fit, he would have been able to play Rooney in his preferred position.
Then why didnt Sven stand by his choices and go for it,he had Theo on the bench aswell as crouch,i know people will say Theo is an inexperienced kid but in Svens eyes he was Englands 4th choice striker and rated him better than Defoe etc, and surely a fully fit defoe would of been better than a partialy fit Owen,after all is Owen that good that he warents a place before fit players?.
I feel that Svens choices and inability to use them to the full extent was typical of his managing skills,i know its all dreams but ide love to see what Venables or Big Sam would of done with the same squad or what players they would of picked.
Perhaps England would have done better with a better manager. But I don't think we should run Sven down too much. He achieved some decent results during his time in charge, qualifying for all three tournaments and reaching the quarters of each. I have the feeling that were it not for the freak injury to Owen England would have reached the Semis at least this time.
It is because England failed to go further than the quarter finals this time with our so called 'golden generation' that Sven is being savaged by the media. But not all of the factors behind that failure were within his control. England's only two strikers who have proved themselves at the international level were both injured going into the tournament and England faced unusual heat in Germany.
I must admit to not being a Sven fan and have come to that view without taking the medias viewpoints,all i can ask is,do you think this squad is as good as the "Euro 96 Squad" or better?.
ZR1cliff said:
I must admit to not being a Sven fan and have come to that view without taking the medias viewpoints,all i can ask is,do you think this squad is as good as the "Euro 96 Squad" or better?.
I think this squad is better than the Euro 96 squad. However Euro 96 was on home soil.
JagLover said:
ZR1cliff said:
I must admit to not being a Sven fan and have come to that view without taking the medias viewpoints,all i can ask is,do you think this squad is as good as the "Euro 96 Squad" or better?.
I think this squad is better than the Euro 96 squad. However Euro 96 was on home soil.
love the way you nailed that on the end 
but look at the difference in the way we played,with so much attacking Flair and confidence,every game was entertaining ,we literally blasted Holland off the park,and IMO outplayed Germany in the Semi under Venables. Svens style was in complete contrast with what i feel is a better squad of players.
Our own players didn't play as a team throughout. In the Portugal game they were barely playing at all until they got a player sent off, then they pulled together. And whenever they went a goal up, they sat back on the lead which lead to trouble.
This is partly down to Sven. He bottled it. He should have had the courage of his convictions and given Theo a run out. He should have been brave and taken Beckham off a few more times (or not even started with him!), and tried some of the players he thought (perhaps correctly) were world class. And he should have done all of this after the Paraguay game as it was almost certain that we'd go through after that game (can I have 5m a year now please FA).
So Sven's partly to blame here. Can't imagine him being that inspirational in the changing room talks either, or the players seeing beyond their multi-million pound hair gel contracts to listen to him.
And that's the second bit - the players didn't want it badly enough to play out of their skins and go and win the game (any of the games really).
Blaming formations does not excuse players loafing around, passing the ball badly (or passing it brilliantly to the opposition) and missing sitters. End of. Only a very small number of the players who saw action can hold their heads up as actually putting heart and soul into it. Amongst them I'd include Rooney, Hargreaves (in the last game), Lennon (in his brief spells), Terry and perhaps a couple of others intermittently (Gerrard and Ashley Cole maybe). The rest just didn't put the effort in.
God could be the manager of the team but if the players can't be arsed to play to their best, you'll win nowt.
Blaming the weather's also nuts. They're meant to be top flight athletes and only run around for 90mins. Most of them barely ran around at any speed for 10mins a game! Sloppy passing and piss poor shooting were not caused by hotter weather, and if they were, I'd be worried if I were paying their salaries!
Summary - neither the manager nor the TEAM were up to it, and binning one only is unlikely to change matters. Unfortunate, because the ultimate quality of all teams in this competition was such that anyone could have won it in the end!
And Ronaldo's still a cheating little arsehole who will hopefully be hounded out of the top flight game as a lesson (or FIFA will deal with it - some hope).
This is partly down to Sven. He bottled it. He should have had the courage of his convictions and given Theo a run out. He should have been brave and taken Beckham off a few more times (or not even started with him!), and tried some of the players he thought (perhaps correctly) were world class. And he should have done all of this after the Paraguay game as it was almost certain that we'd go through after that game (can I have 5m a year now please FA).
So Sven's partly to blame here. Can't imagine him being that inspirational in the changing room talks either, or the players seeing beyond their multi-million pound hair gel contracts to listen to him.
And that's the second bit - the players didn't want it badly enough to play out of their skins and go and win the game (any of the games really).
Blaming formations does not excuse players loafing around, passing the ball badly (or passing it brilliantly to the opposition) and missing sitters. End of. Only a very small number of the players who saw action can hold their heads up as actually putting heart and soul into it. Amongst them I'd include Rooney, Hargreaves (in the last game), Lennon (in his brief spells), Terry and perhaps a couple of others intermittently (Gerrard and Ashley Cole maybe). The rest just didn't put the effort in.
God could be the manager of the team but if the players can't be arsed to play to their best, you'll win nowt.
Blaming the weather's also nuts. They're meant to be top flight athletes and only run around for 90mins. Most of them barely ran around at any speed for 10mins a game! Sloppy passing and piss poor shooting were not caused by hotter weather, and if they were, I'd be worried if I were paying their salaries!
Summary - neither the manager nor the TEAM were up to it, and binning one only is unlikely to change matters. Unfortunate, because the ultimate quality of all teams in this competition was such that anyone could have won it in the end!
And Ronaldo's still a cheating little arsehole who will hopefully be hounded out of the top flight game as a lesson (or FIFA will deal with it - some hope).
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