It was not a stamp.....
Discussion
To all those saying that Rooney stamped on the guys nuts...
In order to stamp on someone...
1. You need to lift up your foot and bring it down sharply
2. You need to be looking at the target.
Rooney was doing neither of these things!!!!
Also, the referee looked relaxed with the whole situation until Ronaldho stuck his oar in and then... and only then went for his cards when Rooney took umbrance and tried to shove Ronaldho out the way, no doubt telling him to go shaft himself.
The stupid Argie ref completely over-reacted.
In order to stamp on someone...
1. You need to lift up your foot and bring it down sharply
2. You need to be looking at the target.
Rooney was doing neither of these things!!!!
Also, the referee looked relaxed with the whole situation until Ronaldho stuck his oar in and then... and only then went for his cards when Rooney took umbrance and tried to shove Ronaldho out the way, no doubt telling him to go shaft himself.
The stupid Argie ref completely over-reacted.
Edited by fozzi on Sunday 2nd July 01:27
I agree it was not a stamp and a very innocuous push. However when Rooney plays for England he is played out of position and gets frustrated, losing the rag. Not condoning that, but how many times has he been sent off for Utd, not many to games played ratio. I'm not a Man U fan by any means, but no comparison betweeen Fergie and the Swede.So again I blame the effin gobshite we had as a manager, the FA for persevering with him and then having effin MaClaren as next England boss.
I agree, that stamp was not intentional.
We all know that Rooney has a temper and we've all seen it in the last few years, but yesterday, I didn't see his temper. He was mildly frustrated while he was battling for the ball and to me, it looked like he stumbled on the players legs, and while trying to regain his balance he stood on him.
Even the push on Ronaldho was nothing to write home about. I do think that if he hadn't pushed him, the ref would have only given a Yellow, but I think for what the incident was, a Red was far too harsh.
Edited to add. The other thing that got to me yesterday. After Rooneys incident, 3 players surrounded the Ref protesting. Rooney got sent off. Lennon get brought down in the box, replays showed he didn't, but at first look he was brought down. Hargreaves protests to the Ref, and gets booked! WTF is with that!!
We all know that Rooney has a temper and we've all seen it in the last few years, but yesterday, I didn't see his temper. He was mildly frustrated while he was battling for the ball and to me, it looked like he stumbled on the players legs, and while trying to regain his balance he stood on him.
Even the push on Ronaldho was nothing to write home about. I do think that if he hadn't pushed him, the ref would have only given a Yellow, but I think for what the incident was, a Red was far too harsh.
Edited to add. The other thing that got to me yesterday. After Rooneys incident, 3 players surrounded the Ref protesting. Rooney got sent off. Lennon get brought down in the box, replays showed he didn't, but at first look he was brought down. Hargreaves protests to the Ref, and gets booked! WTF is with that!!
Edited by tvradict on Sunday 2nd July 09:19
tvradict said:
I agree, that stamp was not intentional.
We all know that Rooney has a temper and we've all seen it in the last few years, but yesterday, I didn't see his temper. He was mildly frustrated while he was battling for the ball and to me, it looked like he stumbled on the players legs, and while trying to regain his balance he stood on him.
Even the push on Ronaldho was nothing to write home about. I do think that if he hadn't pushed him, the ref would have only given a Yellow, but I think for what the incident was, a Red was far too harsh.
Edited to add. The other thing that got to me yesterday. After Rooneys incident, 3 players surrounded the Ref protesting. Rooney got sent off. Lennon get brought down in the box, replays showed he didn't, but at first look he was brought down. Hargreaves protests to the Ref, and gets booked! WTF is with that!!
We all know that Rooney has a temper and we've all seen it in the last few years, but yesterday, I didn't see his temper. He was mildly frustrated while he was battling for the ball and to me, it looked like he stumbled on the players legs, and while trying to regain his balance he stood on him.
Even the push on Ronaldho was nothing to write home about. I do think that if he hadn't pushed him, the ref would have only given a Yellow, but I think for what the incident was, a Red was far too harsh.
Edited to add. The other thing that got to me yesterday. After Rooneys incident, 3 players surrounded the Ref protesting. Rooney got sent off. Lennon get brought down in the box, replays showed he didn't, but at first look he was brought down. Hargreaves protests to the Ref, and gets booked! WTF is with that!!
Edited by tvradict on Sunday 2nd July 09:19
Hate to say it as it sounds like sour grapes... but the Argie ref was biased!
There were numerous occasions where double standards were applied during the game, e.g. English player jumps above Portugese player winning the ball fairly (Crouch over Miguel) equals free kick to Portugal, vice versa (Carvalho over Neville) equals no free kick, throw to England.... and those two incidents happened within 2 minutes of each other!!
Most were subtle, but they were there all the same!!!!!
Sorry to disagree, but I have studied the video replay, and (imo) it was a definite stamp,
although he was severely provoked immediately before the incident. Easy to critisise after the event, these "blips" happen in a fraction of a second, but most unwise with the referee three feet away, and TV cameras from all over the world focused on him....
although he was severely provoked immediately before the incident. Easy to critisise after the event, these "blips" happen in a fraction of a second, but most unwise with the referee three feet away, and TV cameras from all over the world focused on him....After seeing the replay, I thought he was sent off for either a) the shove or b) 2 yellows.
After the alleged stamp was not immediately fumbling for his cards as most do, so maybe he was either going to give Rooney a talking too, or that and a yellow. After the shove on Ronaldo the red card was out quicker than you could blink. Could of been a straight red, or the sceond theoretical yellow. Has there been any official report as to what the red was for yet?
I know this now sounds like sour grapes,but,Equally I thought earlier in the week when it was reported that an Argentine would ref our game that it was wrong. I thought the match official had to be nuetral?
there would be no way that an Englishman would ref the Final if was Germany v Portugal/France.
After the alleged stamp was not immediately fumbling for his cards as most do, so maybe he was either going to give Rooney a talking too, or that and a yellow. After the shove on Ronaldo the red card was out quicker than you could blink. Could of been a straight red, or the sceond theoretical yellow. Has there been any official report as to what the red was for yet?
I know this now sounds like sour grapes,but,Equally I thought earlier in the week when it was reported that an Argentine would ref our game that it was wrong. I thought the match official had to be nuetral?
there would be no way that an Englishman would ref the Final if was Germany v Portugal/France.
I'll be VERY surprised if the ref notes the red card was for anything other than a stamp. He has the benefit of all the noise around the situation, and can take what he wants from the TV footage. There's no way at all he will ever admit to being swayed by the opposition.
The player who got his nuts stood on was wrapped around Rooney as he went down. The three of them (2 Portuguese and Rooney) were all over each other and it all happened in seconds. As mentioned in the first post I just don't see that this was deliberate (and let's face it, Rooney's a big bloke with legs like tree trunks - if he'd meant to do it there's no way on earth the Portuguese guy would have stood up for several hours after!).
I also thought it could have been two yellows, but would also have thought the ref would have had to show the yellow twice and then the red?
End of the day it was a heat of the moment decision. You have a a bunch of screaming Portuguese players round you, you're mind's in overdrive at the tussle you just saw and you have a player with a fiery reputation. Red card. And we know that Scholari encourages this sort of play as much as he does quality football (the Portuguese barely ever had an attack on goal).
FIFA officials must take a look at all the infamous episodes of play acting after this tournament and the players concerned should ALL be up on charges and severely punished.
As for Rooney, part of me hopes he doesn't lose that fiery side. He plays the game with heart and for that he should be given credit. Sadly, at present, the only thing he should have done differently last night is gone down after the first Portuguese challenge on him in that incident. He'd have won a free kick and the Portuguese player may even have been booked if Rooney had been convincing enough.
The next games are going to be amusing to watch - though Zidane yesterday was superb.
The player who got his nuts stood on was wrapped around Rooney as he went down. The three of them (2 Portuguese and Rooney) were all over each other and it all happened in seconds. As mentioned in the first post I just don't see that this was deliberate (and let's face it, Rooney's a big bloke with legs like tree trunks - if he'd meant to do it there's no way on earth the Portuguese guy would have stood up for several hours after!).
I also thought it could have been two yellows, but would also have thought the ref would have had to show the yellow twice and then the red?
End of the day it was a heat of the moment decision. You have a a bunch of screaming Portuguese players round you, you're mind's in overdrive at the tussle you just saw and you have a player with a fiery reputation. Red card. And we know that Scholari encourages this sort of play as much as he does quality football (the Portuguese barely ever had an attack on goal).
FIFA officials must take a look at all the infamous episodes of play acting after this tournament and the players concerned should ALL be up on charges and severely punished.
As for Rooney, part of me hopes he doesn't lose that fiery side. He plays the game with heart and for that he should be given credit. Sadly, at present, the only thing he should have done differently last night is gone down after the first Portuguese challenge on him in that incident. He'd have won a free kick and the Portuguese player may even have been booked if Rooney had been convincing enough.
The next games are going to be amusing to watch - though Zidane yesterday was superb.
shadowfax said:
Sorry lads, but you cant blame the ref
Totally correct.
There's 3 issues to the sending of;
1 - Rooney's chanllenges leading up to the 'stamping incident' were rash and over physical which the ref pulled him up on, although they were typical centre forward challenges and Rooney was getting wound up being the lone man up front
2 - I didn't see a stamp but he deffinately left his foot in
3 - pushing Ronaldo
1&2 would have probably earnt him a yellow, throw 3 into the mix and, well, the rest is history.
But he hadnt been booked before so had not doen anythign bad enough for a booking.
When the team play supposedly without heart and passion people complain, when they do show heart it is too agressive.
He played hard, not dirty. he didnt stamp or leave his foot in oir anythign like that.
It is possible to accidentally tread on someone if they are hanging onto your ankles.
And the push was nothing....absolutely nothing.
Otherwise most of the german team would not be playing in the next game after the argentinian match.
The stamp was not intentional....although people seem to want to beleive it is as to give them someone to blame etc.
The push was never enough, otherwie like i said, dozens of players should have been sent off for the sam sort of thing.
For my money it didnt deserve red, it should have been a good talkign to, yellow at best.
The referee overeacted and yet again the better team goes out. Have we seen that before int his world cup i wonder?
When the team play supposedly without heart and passion people complain, when they do show heart it is too agressive.
He played hard, not dirty. he didnt stamp or leave his foot in oir anythign like that.
It is possible to accidentally tread on someone if they are hanging onto your ankles.
And the push was nothing....absolutely nothing.
Otherwise most of the german team would not be playing in the next game after the argentinian match.
The stamp was not intentional....although people seem to want to beleive it is as to give them someone to blame etc.
The push was never enough, otherwie like i said, dozens of players should have been sent off for the sam sort of thing.
For my money it didnt deserve red, it should have been a good talkign to, yellow at best.
The referee overeacted and yet again the better team goes out. Have we seen that before int his world cup i wonder?
For my money it is as if fifa have iussued a letter to all refs to bring one shirt, shorts, a pair of socks and boots to the tournament but for heavens sake leave any common sense at home.
Im gutted, because despite all the winging abotu how we have played, we havent deserved to go out.
Id be fine if wed been stuffed 6 1 by brazil etc....but not another dubious red card, defected goal or penalty scenario etc.
We wer getting better...in the 2nd half especially.
We had something to build on towards the final etc.
Look at France....they have been playing ruibbish....now excellent.
We were gettign there.
Im gutted, because despite all the winging abotu how we have played, we havent deserved to go out.
Id be fine if wed been stuffed 6 1 by brazil etc....but not another dubious red card, defected goal or penalty scenario etc.
We wer getting better...in the 2nd half especially.
We had something to build on towards the final etc.
Look at France....they have been playing ruibbish....now excellent.
We were gettign there.
Edited by philv on Sunday 2nd July 11:57
philv said:
For my money it is as if fifa have iussued a letter to all refs to bring one shirt, shorts, a pair of socks and boots to the tournament but for heavens sake leave any common sense at home.
Im gutted, because despite all the winging abotu how we have played, we havent deserved to go out.
Id be fine if wed been stuffed 6 1 by brazil etc....but not another dubious red card, defected goal or penalty scenario etc.
We wer getting better...in the 2nd half especially.
We had something to build on towards the final etc.
Look at France....they have been playing ruibbish....now excellent.
We were gettign there.
Im gutted, because despite all the winging abotu how we have played, we havent deserved to go out.
Id be fine if wed been stuffed 6 1 by brazil etc....but not another dubious red card, defected goal or penalty scenario etc.
We wer getting better...in the 2nd half especially.
We had something to build on towards the final etc.
Look at France....they have been playing ruibbish....now excellent.
We were gettign there.
Edited by philv on Sunday 2nd July 11:57
Yes once the "B" factor had left the field they picked up their game no end.
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