Swimming if you are lean with heavy legs?
Discussion
I have been trying to improve my front crawl swimming for the past few months. I've only been going to the pool once a week at the most, so I don't have that many hours in.
I have now got to the point where it no longer feels unpleasant and I am more relaxed.
I have eventually managed to relax/slow my breathing, so no longer hyper ventilating constantly.
My stroke feels longer, more comfortable and efficient, I am rotating my hips/midriff in the water, although I am sure that it could improve much further.
What I really struggle with is preventing my legs sinking, so I am fighting against a lot of drag.
I can't do a static float on my back, even with my head submerged.
I am 6', lean with low body fat, 32" waist, 41.5" chest, 25.5" thighs, 15.5" calves. There isn't much "padding" under the skin.
I have tried a pull buoy/leg float and it felt much easier to swim, although a more buoyant one would have been even better.
I have tried leaning forward a lot and pressing my head and chest down, but it takes a lot of effort to counteract my chest buoyancy. Is it just a case of practising this forward lean until I become more conditioned to it?
Ps. My general strength, including core, is quite good (I train with different types of weights, in multiple planes) I am aerobically fit and I can cope with discomfort.
I have now got to the point where it no longer feels unpleasant and I am more relaxed.
I have eventually managed to relax/slow my breathing, so no longer hyper ventilating constantly.
My stroke feels longer, more comfortable and efficient, I am rotating my hips/midriff in the water, although I am sure that it could improve much further.
What I really struggle with is preventing my legs sinking, so I am fighting against a lot of drag.
I can't do a static float on my back, even with my head submerged.
I am 6', lean with low body fat, 32" waist, 41.5" chest, 25.5" thighs, 15.5" calves. There isn't much "padding" under the skin.
I have tried a pull buoy/leg float and it felt much easier to swim, although a more buoyant one would have been even better.
I have tried leaning forward a lot and pressing my head and chest down, but it takes a lot of effort to counteract my chest buoyancy. Is it just a case of practising this forward lean until I become more conditioned to it?
Ps. My general strength, including core, is quite good (I train with different types of weights, in multiple planes) I am aerobically fit and I can cope with discomfort.
Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 5th October 11:32
Legs often sink because your head is too high. Have someone film you if you can and compare your head position to pro swimmers on YouTube.
The other thing is to improve your kick. Google some kick drills, such as side kick, 616, 636. These are good for developing a good flutter kick. Kick boards can be useful as well, having said that I've never used one.
The other thing is to improve your kick. Google some kick drills, such as side kick, 616, 636. These are good for developing a good flutter kick. Kick boards can be useful as well, having said that I've never used one.
Have a look at this:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQbjMjneBH0
and try and consciously use your core to articulate an angle between your lower spine and femur that trails your legs.
I'd probably have to draw this explanation to make it more understandable, but the above video is probably a great start.
I have the same problem, btw!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQbjMjneBH0
and try and consciously use your core to articulate an angle between your lower spine and femur that trails your legs.
I'd probably have to draw this explanation to make it more understandable, but the above video is probably a great start.
I have the same problem, btw!
I had this problem. I'm a 5'10 runner with a 36" inside leg and very little upper body muscle. I struggled with swimming until I discovered Total Immersion about ten years ago. TI completely fixed my swimming and turned me from someone who got too tired to continue after 50 metres to someone who could swim a 1000m+ at 1m/s without an issue. It's all about technique and the balance can be fixed with that. It's certainly not about the kick - like most TI swimmers I use a tiny two beat kick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFVvho0o4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFVvho0o4
Any way you could post a video, as it may not be a 'one size fits all' solution.
In 80% of cases it is indeed head position which you seem to have discounted.
In the other 20%, it can be a little more complicated. Here's one possible fix: angle your fingers / hand / forearm downwards more at the front of your stroke. You mention hip (and I assume shoulder) rotation, so would assume you are getting a good forward stretch after your hand enters the water. Is this currently towards the surface? If so, try surfing your hand a little deeper. This will cause a little more drag at the front, but could potentially reduce drag significantly more at the back.
Here's another - core. perfect your water shape. Stand up against a wall and straighten your back, eliminating the arch of the lower back. You should feel like you're pulling your belly button towards your spine, then downwards. You need to remember this feeling and apply it in the water. Swimming alone doesn't do much to get the strength, but is good for maintaining it once you have your core 'switched on'. Land exercises like planks and working with a swiss ball will help you get started.
Others have mentioned improving flutter kick. 6 weeks of effort, twice per week (or even once) can make a huge difference. My preferred approach is to do this in streamline without a kick board. You'll probably need to breath over 25m - a small scull (think first 10% of breastroke pull) will usually suffice but as long as you are consistent it doesn't really matter.
First off, take a benchmark for 25m flutter kick (either from a dive or push - whatever suits). Ideally have somebody else time you. Kick like crazy. What's your time now?
To improve, try to incorporate this into your swim - it won't take long.
Push off hard, 2-3 streamline dolphin kicks underwater, then engage flutter kick as if your life depended on it. Try two sets of 4 x 25m. Take 15s to catch your breath after each rep. Have a longer break between the two sets - maybe put your usual session in the middle and do the second set towards the end.
Try another time trial after 2 weeks, 4 weeks, then 6 weeks etc. Report back with your times. We'll help you hold yourself to account! A good kicker should be sub 20s from a dive. I've timed guys in the 13s range before.
In the meantime you may also want to avoid overusing the pull buoy - it may be making your legs and core lazy.
Good luck.
In 80% of cases it is indeed head position which you seem to have discounted.
In the other 20%, it can be a little more complicated. Here's one possible fix: angle your fingers / hand / forearm downwards more at the front of your stroke. You mention hip (and I assume shoulder) rotation, so would assume you are getting a good forward stretch after your hand enters the water. Is this currently towards the surface? If so, try surfing your hand a little deeper. This will cause a little more drag at the front, but could potentially reduce drag significantly more at the back.
Here's another - core. perfect your water shape. Stand up against a wall and straighten your back, eliminating the arch of the lower back. You should feel like you're pulling your belly button towards your spine, then downwards. You need to remember this feeling and apply it in the water. Swimming alone doesn't do much to get the strength, but is good for maintaining it once you have your core 'switched on'. Land exercises like planks and working with a swiss ball will help you get started.
Others have mentioned improving flutter kick. 6 weeks of effort, twice per week (or even once) can make a huge difference. My preferred approach is to do this in streamline without a kick board. You'll probably need to breath over 25m - a small scull (think first 10% of breastroke pull) will usually suffice but as long as you are consistent it doesn't really matter.
First off, take a benchmark for 25m flutter kick (either from a dive or push - whatever suits). Ideally have somebody else time you. Kick like crazy. What's your time now?
To improve, try to incorporate this into your swim - it won't take long.
Push off hard, 2-3 streamline dolphin kicks underwater, then engage flutter kick as if your life depended on it. Try two sets of 4 x 25m. Take 15s to catch your breath after each rep. Have a longer break between the two sets - maybe put your usual session in the middle and do the second set towards the end.
Try another time trial after 2 weeks, 4 weeks, then 6 weeks etc. Report back with your times. We'll help you hold yourself to account! A good kicker should be sub 20s from a dive. I've timed guys in the 13s range before.
In the meantime you may also want to avoid overusing the pull buoy - it may be making your legs and core lazy.
Good luck.
onedsla said:
Any way you could post a video, as it may not be a 'one size fits all' solution.
In 80% of cases it is indeed head position which you seem to have discounted.
In the other 20%, it can be a little more complicated. Here's one possible fix: angle your fingers / hand / forearm downwards more at the front of your stroke. You mention hip (and I assume shoulder) rotation, so would assume you are getting a good forward stretch after your hand enters the water. Is this currently towards the surface? If so, try surfing your hand a little deeper. This will cause a little more drag at the front, but could potentially reduce drag significantly more at the back.
Here's another - core. perfect your water shape. Stand up against a wall and straighten your back, eliminating the arch of the lower back. You should feel like you're pulling your belly button towards your spine, then downwards. You need to remember this feeling and apply it in the water. Swimming alone doesn't do much to get the strength, but is good for maintaining it once you have your core 'switched on'. Land exercises like planks and working with a swiss ball will help you get started.
Others have mentioned improving flutter kick. 6 weeks of effort, twice per week (or even once) can make a huge difference. My preferred approach is to do this in streamline without a kick board. You'll probably need to breath over 25m - a small scull (think first 10% of breastroke pull) will usually suffice but as long as you are consistent it doesn't really matter.
First off, take a benchmark for 25m flutter kick (either from a dive or push - whatever suits). Ideally have somebody else time you. Kick like crazy. What's your time now?
To improve, try to incorporate this into your swim - it won't take long.
Push off hard, 2-3 streamline dolphin kicks underwater, then engage flutter kick as if your life depended on it. Try two sets of 4 x 25m. Take 15s to catch your breath after each rep. Have a longer break between the two sets - maybe put your usual session in the middle and do the second set towards the end.
Try another time trial after 2 weeks, 4 weeks, then 6 weeks etc. Report back with your times. We'll help you hold yourself to account! A good kicker should be sub 20s from a dive. I've timed guys in the 13s range before.
In the meantime you may also want to avoid overusing the pull buoy - it may be making your legs and core lazy.
Good luck.
Thanks for the ideas and advice. There is a lot to think about. Much appreciated. In 80% of cases it is indeed head position which you seem to have discounted.
In the other 20%, it can be a little more complicated. Here's one possible fix: angle your fingers / hand / forearm downwards more at the front of your stroke. You mention hip (and I assume shoulder) rotation, so would assume you are getting a good forward stretch after your hand enters the water. Is this currently towards the surface? If so, try surfing your hand a little deeper. This will cause a little more drag at the front, but could potentially reduce drag significantly more at the back.
Here's another - core. perfect your water shape. Stand up against a wall and straighten your back, eliminating the arch of the lower back. You should feel like you're pulling your belly button towards your spine, then downwards. You need to remember this feeling and apply it in the water. Swimming alone doesn't do much to get the strength, but is good for maintaining it once you have your core 'switched on'. Land exercises like planks and working with a swiss ball will help you get started.
Others have mentioned improving flutter kick. 6 weeks of effort, twice per week (or even once) can make a huge difference. My preferred approach is to do this in streamline without a kick board. You'll probably need to breath over 25m - a small scull (think first 10% of breastroke pull) will usually suffice but as long as you are consistent it doesn't really matter.
First off, take a benchmark for 25m flutter kick (either from a dive or push - whatever suits). Ideally have somebody else time you. Kick like crazy. What's your time now?
To improve, try to incorporate this into your swim - it won't take long.
Push off hard, 2-3 streamline dolphin kicks underwater, then engage flutter kick as if your life depended on it. Try two sets of 4 x 25m. Take 15s to catch your breath after each rep. Have a longer break between the two sets - maybe put your usual session in the middle and do the second set towards the end.
Try another time trial after 2 weeks, 4 weeks, then 6 weeks etc. Report back with your times. We'll help you hold yourself to account! A good kicker should be sub 20s from a dive. I've timed guys in the 13s range before.
In the meantime you may also want to avoid overusing the pull buoy - it may be making your legs and core lazy.
Good luck.
I'm probably trying too hard to improve everything at the same time, but I did try some flutter kick practice. There was only one other swimmer in the pool, so I was able to do whatever I liked without obstructing anybody.
On my first attempt to use a kick board float, somewhat bemusingly, I wasn't going anywhere....
I did a bit of vertical flutter kick practice at the deep end.
Kicking whilst on my sides with a leading arm was much more effective than on my front and even over a few lengths I appeared to improve.
When I returned to the kick board float I was able to move forward, albeit very slowly.
The same kick on my back was faster.
Resuming a freestyle stroke, trying to maintain the kick, improve my arm stroke / hand postion/head/chest angle /stretch/roll did appear to result in a smoother progress through the water for short periods. I did a few half lengths of the 25m pool to concentrateon form rather than aerobic
I'm still gassed after 50m without the pull buoy.
On my first attempt to use a kick board float, somewhat bemusingly, I wasn't going anywhere....
I did a bit of vertical flutter kick practice at the deep end.
Kicking whilst on my sides with a leading arm was much more effective than on my front and even over a few lengths I appeared to improve.
When I returned to the kick board float I was able to move forward, albeit very slowly.
The same kick on my back was faster.
Resuming a freestyle stroke, trying to maintain the kick, improve my arm stroke / hand postion/head/chest angle /stretch/roll did appear to result in a smoother progress through the water for short periods. I did a few half lengths of the 25m pool to concentrateon form rather than aerobic
I'm still gassed after 50m without the pull buoy.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 10th October 07:19
RobM77 said:
As I said above, TI will fix this. It does take a lot of time and commitment to learn it though. You need to learn to be balanced without a kick.
I'm working on it! During the side kick practice I was reaching forward/down to try to maintain a balanced position. Interestingly, even the TI book says that some people can't balance by floating on their back due to body composition. I am one of those people. I tried again last night and, even with my head submerged, my legs sink and upper body pops up - to float like a buoy.
MC Bodge said:
RobM77 said:
As I said above, TI will fix this. It does take a lot of time and commitment to learn it though. You need to learn to be balanced without a kick.
I'm working on it! During the side kick practice I was reaching forward/down to try to maintain a balanced position. Interestingly, even the TI book says that some people can't balance by floating on their back due to body composition. I am one of those people. I tried again last night and, even with my head submerged, my legs sink and upper body pops up - to float like a buoy.
Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 10th October 08:46
Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 10th October 08:52
Thanks Rob.
The TI methods do appear good.
What I'm aiming for is to be able to swim a reasonable distance, say a mile.
I may be a bit of a jack of all trades, but I'm not looking for perfection at the exclusion of all else. A year without doing a full stroke and 3 years of one-one lessons to get the hang of it is a lot and not something I'll be doing, certainly whilst I need to work 40hr/week.
The balance is still an issue at the moment, as is my kick. I'll do more balance practice, along with the kick.
I know that others have sinking legs, and I'm not quite freakish in my body shape, but I am very heavy legged/gluted and lean in the middle. I'm of average height, lean and around 13st. I've tried various athletic fit trousers and they don't fit me.
The TI methods do appear good.
What I'm aiming for is to be able to swim a reasonable distance, say a mile.
I may be a bit of a jack of all trades, but I'm not looking for perfection at the exclusion of all else. A year without doing a full stroke and 3 years of one-one lessons to get the hang of it is a lot and not something I'll be doing, certainly whilst I need to work 40hr/week.
The balance is still an issue at the moment, as is my kick. I'll do more balance practice, along with the kick.
I know that others have sinking legs, and I'm not quite freakish in my body shape, but I am very heavy legged/gluted and lean in the middle. I'm of average height, lean and around 13st. I've tried various athletic fit trousers and they don't fit me.
MC Bodge said:
Thanks Rob.
The TI methods do appear good.
What I'm aiming for is to be able to swim a reasonable distance, say a mile.
I may be a bit of a jack of all trades, but I'm not looking for perfection at the exclusion of all else. A year without doing a full stroke and 3 years of one-one lessons to get the hang of it is a lot and not something I'll be doing, certainly whilst I need to work 40hr/week.
The balance is still an issue at the moment, as is my kick. I'll do more balance practice, along with the kick.
I know that others have sinking legs, and I'm not quite freakish in my body shape, but I am very heavy legged/gluted and lean in the middle. I'm of average height, lean and around 13st. I've tried various athletic fit trousers and they don't fit me.
I'm exactly the same: 5'10" in height, but with a 36" inside leg and I work on the legs twice a week in the gym to make them stronger for running faster, whilst doing only a mild amount of upper body stuff, just enough to drive me along when running. This gives me a terrible natural balance in the water, because muscle is really dense and I have so much mass in my legs relative to my upper body. The lengths I went to to fix my swimming (as mentioned above) were extensive, yes, although much of it was about technique and going faster; but the balance bit still took me a long time to get right - perhaps a year.The TI methods do appear good.
What I'm aiming for is to be able to swim a reasonable distance, say a mile.
I may be a bit of a jack of all trades, but I'm not looking for perfection at the exclusion of all else. A year without doing a full stroke and 3 years of one-one lessons to get the hang of it is a lot and not something I'll be doing, certainly whilst I need to work 40hr/week.
The balance is still an issue at the moment, as is my kick. I'll do more balance practice, along with the kick.
I know that others have sinking legs, and I'm not quite freakish in my body shape, but I am very heavy legged/gluted and lean in the middle. I'm of average height, lean and around 13st. I've tried various athletic fit trousers and they don't fit me.
You could benefit from a day's TI course: http://www.totalimmersion.co.uk/workshops.php
In terms of advice for now, I'd recommend making your kick a lot smaller and concentrate on being smooth and gentle; don't rush. Swimming's exactly like motor racing: go slow and gentle in the cockpit to go fast on the track. So, when I'm swimming my fastest is actually when I'm most relaxed and think I'm going the slowest. Your balance should be inherent, and not propped up by legs or arms. Think about leaning down on your chest whilst swimming - don't copy 50m or 100m swimmers, who have an angle of attack to the water because their immense power lifts them up for less drag; have a look instead at long distance swimmers - good ones (Sun Yang, Keri-Ann Payne etc) look graceful and fish like, with a low torso.
One other thought - do you have decent ankle flexibility?
Good test is to lie flat on back with feet close to a wall. If you planter flex (point toes), your toes should be no more than about 5cm from the floor. If you are above that, you may want to consider ways to improve ankle flexibility. Even if you're not using your legs much for propulsion, straight feet will cause drag.
Also, during any kick, pay close attention to feeling the water on your feet - on both the upwards and downwards motion.
Good test is to lie flat on back with feet close to a wall. If you planter flex (point toes), your toes should be no more than about 5cm from the floor. If you are above that, you may want to consider ways to improve ankle flexibility. Even if you're not using your legs much for propulsion, straight feet will cause drag.
Also, during any kick, pay close attention to feeling the water on your feet - on both the upwards and downwards motion.
One way of bringing your legs up is by moving your torso down - namely by reducing buoyancy there. That buoyancy is mostly gas in your lungs.
What worked for me was focussing more on exhaling air immediately after taking in a breath. I used to breathe in, hold for a few strokes, exhale quickly on a stroke and then breathe. I now start exhaling as soon as my head rotates back into the water. You're mostly exhaling CO2
An exercise to try is to breathe out whilst floating vertically in the deep end until you end up sitting on the bottom without having to move your arms.
As well as bringing your legs up it will improve the efficiency of your breathing.
Good luck and if you're still struggling do consider getting someone to video you and share it here or find a coach who can do a video analysis.
What worked for me was focussing more on exhaling air immediately after taking in a breath. I used to breathe in, hold for a few strokes, exhale quickly on a stroke and then breathe. I now start exhaling as soon as my head rotates back into the water. You're mostly exhaling CO2
An exercise to try is to breathe out whilst floating vertically in the deep end until you end up sitting on the bottom without having to move your arms.
As well as bringing your legs up it will improve the efficiency of your breathing.
Good luck and if you're still struggling do consider getting someone to video you and share it here or find a coach who can do a video analysis.
Following on from a link posted above, this looks helpful: 3 key focal points.
MC Bodge said:
I have been trying to improve my front crawl swimming for the past few months. I've only been going to the pool once a week at the most, so I don't have that many hours in.
I have now got to the point where it no longer feels unpleasant and I am more relaxed.
I have eventually managed to relax/slow my breathing, so no longer hyper ventilating constantly.
My stroke feels longer, more comfortable and efficient, I am rotating my hips/midriff in the water, although I am sure that it could improve much further.
What I really struggle with is preventing my legs sinking, so I am fighting against a lot of drag.
I can't do a static float on my back, even with my head submerged.
I am 6', lean with low body fat, 32" waist, 41.5" chest, 25.5" thighs, 15.5" calves. There isn't much "padding" under the skin.
I have tried a pull buoy/leg float and it felt much easier to swim, although a more buoyant one would have been even better.
I have tried leaning forward a lot and pressing my head and chest down, but it takes a lot of effort to counteract my chest buoyancy. Is it just a case of practising this forward lean until I become more conditioned to it?
Ps. My general strength, including core, is quite good (I train with different types of weights, in multiple planes) I am aerobically fit and I can cope with discomfort.
Took me a while to figure out why I'd get so tired from swimming, I keep my head high because I never got the knack of turning the head, and so my upper body was always goosed. THen I snorkelled and could go forever. Get a front snorkel and motor along.I have now got to the point where it no longer feels unpleasant and I am more relaxed.
I have eventually managed to relax/slow my breathing, so no longer hyper ventilating constantly.
My stroke feels longer, more comfortable and efficient, I am rotating my hips/midriff in the water, although I am sure that it could improve much further.
What I really struggle with is preventing my legs sinking, so I am fighting against a lot of drag.
I can't do a static float on my back, even with my head submerged.
I am 6', lean with low body fat, 32" waist, 41.5" chest, 25.5" thighs, 15.5" calves. There isn't much "padding" under the skin.
I have tried a pull buoy/leg float and it felt much easier to swim, although a more buoyant one would have been even better.
I have tried leaning forward a lot and pressing my head and chest down, but it takes a lot of effort to counteract my chest buoyancy. Is it just a case of practising this forward lean until I become more conditioned to it?
Ps. My general strength, including core, is quite good (I train with different types of weights, in multiple planes) I am aerobically fit and I can cope with discomfort.
Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 5th October 11:32
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