Marathon Training Plan... going sub - 3hrs

[nofuse22]

This is linked to my other question about doing an Autumn Marathon...

Have spent most of this year cycling, and did the Marmotte last weekend; with my arse still sore my thoughts are turning back to running (goes down much better with the Mrs given the time requirements for cycling)

Off roughly 18 miles / week average for the year, 2 weeks before the Marmotte i ran a 1hr 25 half and didn’t feel to be pushing too hard; 5kms at the moment are 18mins 30 area.

I feel i could do a sub 3hr marathon.... question for the Pistonheads forum is - what training plan should i follow? 12 or 16 weeks? Any recommendations on ones to follow?

Looking at runners world, it suggests i should be running 40miles a week at the moment. Limiting cycling i will be able to increase my volume significantly, but that seems a big jump

Any thoughts?
Thanks

[272BHP]

nofuse22 said:

This is linked to my other question about doing an Autumn Marathon...

Have spent most of this year cycling, and did the Marmotte last weekend; with my arse still sore my thoughts are turning back to running (goes down much better with the Mrs given the time requirements for cycling)

Off roughly 18 miles / week average for the year, 2 weeks before the Marmotte i ran a 1hr 25 half and didn’t feel to be pushing too hard; 5kms at the moment are 18mins 30 area.

I feel i could do a sub 3hr marathon.... question for the Pistonheads forum is - what training plan should i follow? 12 or 16 weeks? Any recommendations on ones to follow?

Looking at runners world, it suggests i should be running 40miles a week at the moment. Limiting cycling i will be able to increase my volume significantly, but that seems a big jump

Any thoughts?
Thanks

I was running pretty much exactly the same times for the half and 5km when I was going for a fast marathon a few years ago. I was aiming for a 3:10 but missed out as I had a bad day.

I never thought a sub 3 hours was possible on the times I was running. There is a big difference between a 1:25 half and a sub 3h marathon.

A 16 week plan would be ideal building up to about 50mpw but no more long bike rides though - it won't help you.

[nofuse22]

At this stage i would tend to agree that it does seem a big step up: I can’t conceive that after running a 85min half i could turn around and do it again without losing a fair chunk of time... however am working on assumption that increasing volume of training will increase my stamina and “cruising” pace. Finger crossed!

[The jiffle king]

I would use P&D's book called advanced marathon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Marathoning-Pete...

It may not meet your needs in terms of the amount of time you want to spend on it, but it's taken me to a sub 2:45 and many sub 3's and I know many other people who have used it. There are other plans out there, but sub 3 is not that easy.

If you can run a 1:21 half then sub 3 should be possible as nearly everyone I know who has gone sub 3 can run a 1:21 or better. 1:23 is what the books say, but it's very tight on a sub 3.

Key runs are
1 x long run
1 x medium long
1 x tempo
1 x long speedwork

You need time on your feet and need a couple of races to practice getting 6:51/52 per mile pacing right.
Recently I've helped a few people with their long tempo runs wiht 15-16 miles at 6:40 pace and it helps to have a group and the same applies to the marathon itself. Going solo from 3 miles makes it feel like a very long run. I would choose a larger marathon and get in a pack

Good luck

[Gargamel]

Obviously you are pretty quick and pretty fast already, but just be careful jumping from 18 mile weeks to 40 mile weeks.

Really you should only add about 10% distance per week. I think 20% is ok - but you need to watch for niggles and tight/sore legs as a first sign

Better to build distance at an easy pace first.

[ALawson]

nofuse22 said:

This is linked to my other question about doing an Autumn Marathon...

Have spent most of this year cycling, and did the Marmotte last weekend; with my arse still sore my thoughts are turning back to running (goes down much better with the Mrs given the time requirements for cycling)

Off roughly 18 miles / week average for the year, 2 weeks before the Marmotte i ran a 1hr 25 half and didn’t feel to be pushing too hard; 5kms at the moment are 18mins 30 area.

I feel i could do a sub 3hr marathon.... question for the Pistonheads forum is - what training plan should i follow? 12 or 16 weeks? Any recommendations on ones to follow?

Looking at runners world, it suggests i should be running 40miles a week at the moment. Limiting cycling i will be able to increase my volume significantly, but that seems a big jump

Any thoughts?
Thanks

It was a great ride though wasn't it, AlpeD was a trifle hot for the first few kms.

[wrencho]

I did a 16 week block to try and crack 3 hours. Missed it by 2 minutes at Manchester this year. Pretty annoying.

I would say it's all about volume. I was doing 2 "quality" sessions of either shorter tempo runs or long runs with marathon pace inserts and then 5 or 6 "normal" runs. I was topping out at 70 miles during the big weeks.

I should have smashed it really and fked up for a couple of silly reasons. Was going to have another crack at it in October at Chester but got injured.

I would say if you follow the Advanced Marathon book you can say goodbye to any form of social life. I turned into a "marathon wker" according to the wife towards the end and my mileage isn't as high as those plans from memory.

[272BHP]

You need to choose the right Marathon as well.

Flat, at a good time of the year and most crucially, not busy!

Nothing more soul destroying to see the seconds tick away when there is a sea of slower runners blocking your way.

[wrencho]

Manchester is a good option. Flat, well supported and not that busy that it becomes an issue. One thing I would say is getting access to the official parking is a complete nightmare and you need to either plan well in advance or stay within walking distance of the start. Sounds like a wish washy excuse but it really screwed my race up...

[The jiffle king]

Getting in a sub 3 group at your chosen race can help. At Barcelona marathon one year I ran with the sub 3 group to halfway as part of my marathon training. Being in a group was helping a lot of people and the pacer who was pushing a child in a buggy and 24 bottles of water (yes seriously!) reckoned he got 3-4 to sub 3 who would not make it on their own. He was a 2:20 marathoner

[benjipeg]

check out the firman first training plan - it concentrates on tempo runs and pace off 3 runs a week. i was running 1.30 on a lumpy half and ran 3.15 on the snowdonia marathon which was my first marathon and felt i was well prepared for it
here it is http://www.wu.ece.ufl.edu/marathon%20training-firs...

[nofuse22]

ALawson said:

It was a great ride though wasn't it, AlpeD was a trifle hot for the first few kms.

Yes - was great fun, but AlpeD was pretty hot.... however i understand that the people doing the etape this year had it even worse....

[wrencho]

benjipeg said:

check out the firman first training plan - it concentrates on tempo runs and pace off 3 runs a week. i was running 1.30 on a lumpy half and ran 3.15 on the snowdonia marathon which was my first marathon and felt i was well prepared for it
here it is http://www.wu.ece.ufl.edu/marathon%20training-firs...

This looks interesting. So PMP isn't actually your planned marathon pace but 10k pace plus? That's some serious pace training!