Nature vs Nurture
Discussion
Afternoon all,
I've just been watching Romain Ntemack following in his father's footsteps playing for France in the Six Nations. Owen Farrell does the same for England later, and there are plenty more examples.
How much of that is down to genetics vs having an international player as a father getting you the right exposure to selectors in the age groups, do you think?
I've just been watching Romain Ntemack following in his father's footsteps playing for France in the Six Nations. Owen Farrell does the same for England later, and there are plenty more examples.
How much of that is down to genetics vs having an international player as a father getting you the right exposure to selectors in the age groups, do you think?
Edited by Kermit power on Saturday 16th March 16:25
Kermit power said:
Afternoon all,
I've just been watching Romain Ntemack following in his father's footsteps playing for England in the Six Nations. Owen Farrell does the same for England later, and there are plenty more examples.
How much of that is down to genetics vs having an international player as a father getting you the right exposure to selectors in the age groups, do you think?
I've just been watching Romain Ntemack following in his father's footsteps playing for England in the Six Nations. Owen Farrell does the same for England later, and there are plenty more examples.
How much of that is down to genetics vs having an international player as a father getting you the right exposure to selectors in the age groups, do you think?
Genetics gives you the initial opportunity, without the right genes you simply do not stand a chance.
Beyond that if you have right family support and that little bit of luck to not get injured at the wrong time then someone who is known as the son of a well known player will always get some attention from clubs ands scouts.
From then on it will be about genuine talent and determination to succeed I would have thought.
Beyond that if you have right family support and that little bit of luck to not get injured at the wrong time then someone who is known as the son of a well known player will always get some attention from clubs ands scouts.
From then on it will be about genuine talent and determination to succeed I would have thought.
Both my sister's were olympic athletes.
I wasn't
Genetics obviously similar (disregarding the sex obviously) but my sister's were transported round the country every weekend and every whim pampered to.
I was dumped at my grandparents every weekend and suffered significant corporal punishment generally.
So I'd say, beyond the until genetic advantage, then nurture is a significant contributor.
Chip on my shoulder? Absolutely. Love and respect my parents nowadays but have never forgiven them for my teenage years and never will
I wasn't
Genetics obviously similar (disregarding the sex obviously) but my sister's were transported round the country every weekend and every whim pampered to.
I was dumped at my grandparents every weekend and suffered significant corporal punishment generally.
So I'd say, beyond the until genetic advantage, then nurture is a significant contributor.
Chip on my shoulder? Absolutely. Love and respect my parents nowadays but have never forgiven them for my teenage years and never will
I can’t speak for the rest of there careers but I went to school with Ben Young’s for 7 years since I was 8. The guy was always by far the best player on the pitch from the first game to the last lots of talent. But then again when he showed that talent his Dad had him playing both school and club rugby. No doubt having a Dad that really knows what he looking at watching your games can’t hurt.
The other person I know is Dave Ryding competed against him for years again was always on top from a early age. But like Ben Young’s his Dad was couching the teams he was in and is pretty highly regarded. So was very well guided from a young age.
So I guess it’s about having that initial talent recognised and making sure you get the right couching and take the right paths.
The other person I know is Dave Ryding competed against him for years again was always on top from a early age. But like Ben Young’s his Dad was couching the teams he was in and is pretty highly regarded. So was very well guided from a young age.
So I guess it’s about having that initial talent recognised and making sure you get the right couching and take the right paths.
272BHP said:
Genetics gives you the initial opportunity, without the right genes you simply do not stand a chance.
Beyond that if you have right family support and that little bit of luck to not get injured at the wrong time then someone who is known as the son of a well known player will always get some attention from clubs ands scouts.
From then on it will be about genuine talent and determination to succeed I would have thought.
You need to read “Bounce” by Matthew Syed. Genetics is pretty much irrelevant. He got really lucky. His father bought him and his brother a table tennis set. They played each other religiously, they found out a little later that one of the UKs best coaches lived in the next village but their father hadn’t known before he bought the table. Matthew and his brother joined the club, became commonwealth champions. He says having a rival living in the same house was the catalyst. Beyond that if you have right family support and that little bit of luck to not get injured at the wrong time then someone who is known as the son of a well known player will always get some attention from clubs ands scouts.
From then on it will be about genuine talent and determination to succeed I would have thought.
Genetics help some sports but not all. You can succeed without them.
I used to race downhill mountain bikes against the Atherton family. Myself and Gee Atherton were in the same category. When we were in youth and juniors he was miles ahead and finishing in elite teams even as a junior. He was just different.
It was the family rivalry that helped him push on he often said but he was just naturally freakishly talented.
It was the family rivalry that helped him push on he often said but he was just naturally freakishly talented.
I did play semi-pro / pro rugby. A few of the players had fathers who had also played at high level, and some of them were clearly there as a result of who they knew rather than their ability (poor work rate, generally average, poor attitude etc).
However if your parent has managed to play at a high level, they'll have the physique which might be passed on, they'll clearly have the knowledge and understanding of the sport, plus they'll know the best routes to take to the top level.
An inexperienced parent with a talented kid at a small team might not appreciate the need to get them into a bigger club to progress, or fear they'll not stand out at the higher level. An experienced parent will understand the need to play with higher quality players to improve their own game, and therefore push the child to do it - plus their name will open doors to the bigger clubs (always good PR, especially if the parent is an ex-player for the team)
So I'd say it's more a case of the parent having the knowledge and contacts to open doors rather than a natural talent - although my youngest son has a mean tackle out of the box that he demonstrated in his first training session
However if your parent has managed to play at a high level, they'll have the physique which might be passed on, they'll clearly have the knowledge and understanding of the sport, plus they'll know the best routes to take to the top level.
An inexperienced parent with a talented kid at a small team might not appreciate the need to get them into a bigger club to progress, or fear they'll not stand out at the higher level. An experienced parent will understand the need to play with higher quality players to improve their own game, and therefore push the child to do it - plus their name will open doors to the bigger clubs (always good PR, especially if the parent is an ex-player for the team)
So I'd say it's more a case of the parent having the knowledge and contacts to open doors rather than a natural talent - although my youngest son has a mean tackle out of the box that he demonstrated in his first training session
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