Icarus - Netflix - state sponsored doping
Discussion
Mark13 said:
Most athletes are clean.
Get over it.
Hey Mark, just for the sake of having a variety of viewpoints represented, I'm going to share my view that in my opinion most professional athletes are not, and that includes Olympiads.Get over it.
The "Get over it" you wrote is a bit strange. You seem to want to impose your view on others. That's not how life works, on a topic for which there is no definitive, conclusive, evidence.
State sponsored doping was in the main Eastern European post WW2. just a look at Womens athletic records and how they have all but halted the past years shows that it did take place .
On the other side of the coin those teams with larger budgets probably had better programmes so it seems it has always been there in one form or another.
When you see how Jamaica have done in the Sprint events this championship it does make you think something has been going on.
Cheating exists in all sports and in many forms I have now got to a point that I give the Athlete's the benefit of the doubt but am not surprised when they get caught.
Did the guy in the film ever get his Family out ?
On the other side of the coin those teams with larger budgets probably had better programmes so it seems it has always been there in one form or another.
When you see how Jamaica have done in the Sprint events this championship it does make you think something has been going on.
Cheating exists in all sports and in many forms I have now got to a point that I give the Athlete's the benefit of the doubt but am not surprised when they get caught.
Did the guy in the film ever get his Family out ?
Guilty until proven innocent then?
I know a lot of people in the sport and they are clean.
You say that the female records have dried up. If there was wide spread cheating then the records would be continually falling.
A lot of sports relying on explosive power or/and endurance have bigger issues than athletics.
I know a lot of people in the sport and they are clean.
You say that the female records have dried up. If there was wide spread cheating then the records would be continually falling.
A lot of sports relying on explosive power or/and endurance have bigger issues than athletics.
Mark13 said:
Guilty until proven innocent then?
I know a lot of people in the sport and they are clean.
You say that the female records have dried up. If there was wide spread cheating then the records would be continually falling.
A lot of sports relying on explosive power or/and endurance have bigger issues than athletics.
But surely athletics events generally rely on either explosive power and / or endurance, from javelin or shot to 10K and everything in between.I know a lot of people in the sport and they are clean.
You say that the female records have dried up. If there was wide spread cheating then the records would be continually falling.
A lot of sports relying on explosive power or/and endurance have bigger issues than athletics.
I'd be genuinely interested to hear whether the clean athletes you know are national / international level and if so, whether they're medal contenders when competing and if not, what do they attribute the gap between themselves and the best to?
With a few exceptions, our athletes come from the grass roots (don't get me started on plastic brits). I am heavily involved in the grass roots of the sport, which is clean. The best athletes emerge and move to a higher level, but at the same time most have a foot in their original club etc. Some may be tempted but there is a massive anti-drug culture in the sport.
In the power events there will always be some suspicion because of the past when a lot of records were set. As far as doping is concerned certain nations have a poor record but I expect the majority of competitors are clean. I know a number of heavy throws coaches who watch speed and movement and see some correlation between seemingly slow athletes and big distance as being dubious.
The UK has one of the best testing regimes in the world and athletics seems to be damned by association, not facts.
I was in the Gym last week and amongst the lads posing in front of mirrors with their 'big arms' were several who I know are on gear. I have witnessed a couple of them losing it 'steroid rage'. Non are athletes, they are body obsessive ex footballers and Rugby players. Drugs are endemic in body building and body obsessed young men.
When you look at those currently banned most are Rugby players and this tells a story.
It is a society problem imo.
In the power events there will always be some suspicion because of the past when a lot of records were set. As far as doping is concerned certain nations have a poor record but I expect the majority of competitors are clean. I know a number of heavy throws coaches who watch speed and movement and see some correlation between seemingly slow athletes and big distance as being dubious.
The UK has one of the best testing regimes in the world and athletics seems to be damned by association, not facts.
I was in the Gym last week and amongst the lads posing in front of mirrors with their 'big arms' were several who I know are on gear. I have witnessed a couple of them losing it 'steroid rage'. Non are athletes, they are body obsessive ex footballers and Rugby players. Drugs are endemic in body building and body obsessed young men.
When you look at those currently banned most are Rugby players and this tells a story.
It is a society problem imo.
So you are looking at a small percentage of athletes, throwing athletes? And then making blanket statements for everything else? Which arguably are far more 'lucrative' and 'prestigious' aka - more reason to cheat...?
I don't doubt that many athletes are clean, but I would say its a big big statement to just assume most are clean because 'its the culture now' (because it is not in other sports and cheating is happening at all levels in something like cycling, in this country).
I don't doubt that many athletes are clean, but I would say its a big big statement to just assume most are clean because 'its the culture now' (because it is not in other sports and cheating is happening at all levels in something like cycling, in this country).
I know athletes in all disciplines. I just used Throws as an example.
So what you are saying is that we shouldn't trust our Women's 4x100 and 4x400m squads. They are not clean because you say so?
I also have a very good idea why the Russian athletes were doping. Most of them were given no choice whatsoever, they either did it or lost their funding and were cut out of selection. I got the inside line on the regime from a non Russian partner of one of the Russian athletes banned after 2012.
Testing has been rigorous at these Championships, so let's see how many are caught.
So what you are saying is that we shouldn't trust our Women's 4x100 and 4x400m squads. They are not clean because you say so?
I also have a very good idea why the Russian athletes were doping. Most of them were given no choice whatsoever, they either did it or lost their funding and were cut out of selection. I got the inside line on the regime from a non Russian partner of one of the Russian athletes banned after 2012.
Testing has been rigorous at these Championships, so let's see how many are caught.
Mark13 said:
I know athletes in all disciplines. I just used Throws as an example.
So what you are saying is that we shouldn't trust our Women's 4x100 and 4x400m squads. They are not clean because you say so?
I also have a very good idea why the Russian athletes were doping. Most of them were given no choice whatsoever, they either did it or lost their funding and were cut out of selection. I got the inside line on the regime from a non Russian partner of one of the Russian athletes banned after 2012.
Testing has been rigorous at these Championships, so let's see how many are caught.
You miss the point of the program I feel - Don Catlin said the tests are pointless and easily beatable...So what you are saying is that we shouldn't trust our Women's 4x100 and 4x400m squads. They are not clean because you say so?
I also have a very good idea why the Russian athletes were doping. Most of them were given no choice whatsoever, they either did it or lost their funding and were cut out of selection. I got the inside line on the regime from a non Russian partner of one of the Russian athletes banned after 2012.
Testing has been rigorous at these Championships, so let's see how many are caught.
okgo said:
You miss the point of the program I feel - Don Catlin said the tests are pointless and easily beatable...
weren't the Russian tests beatable because of the State help ?.. The fact that few if any World Records have been broken makes me hope that something has happened . I still hope for the best but fear the worst with doping and I think Armstrong and his "story" which many of us bought into is the main reason for so many people doubting Athletes in general.
johnxjsc1985 said:
weren't the Russian tests beatable because of the State help ?.. The fact that few if any World Records have been broken makes me hope that something has happened .
I still hope for the best but fear the worst with doping and I think Armstrong and his "story" which many of us bought into is the main reason for so many people doubting Athletes in general.
It doesn't help with people like Farah knocking about. Or Bolt.I still hope for the best but fear the worst with doping and I think Armstrong and his "story" which many of us bought into is the main reason for so many people doubting Athletes in general.
johnxjsc1985 said:
okgo said:
You miss the point of the program I feel - Don Catlin said the tests are pointless and easily beatable...
weren't the Russian tests beatable because of the State help ?.. The fact that few if any World Records have been broken makes me hope that something has happened . I still hope for the best but fear the worst with doping and I think Armstrong and his "story" which many of us bought into is the main reason for so many people doubting Athletes in general.
WestyCarl said:
I like to give Athletes the benefit of the doubt. However at London 2012 the Russians had a massive state sponsored doping program yet the UK still won 50% more Golds. Not really proof of anything, maybe the Russians were crap at doping or..............
or maybe they stopped beforehand to ensure clean tests and as a result didn't do as well as normal. Its a shame their is a question over great sporting moments. Don't think anyone questioned Roger Bannister.Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff