Sam Burgess to Rugby Union
Discussion
Well?
I'm a Rugby Union fan although I love a bit of League. The guy is a monster and his SF showing against New Zealand in the recent World Cup was one of the finest performances by an English athlete in any sport in the past 20 years.
But Union? I just can't see what position he would play. His oppo, who he outplayed in that SF game was Sonny Bill Williams, who obvously plays 12 in union, but I just can't see Burgess fitting in there. No 8? We've got loads, and it's a techincally difficult position. Flanker? Again, technical, with a hell of a lot of floor work involved. And whatever position he played, I certainly don't think he'd be ready for 2015. 2019 maybe.
Still, happy to be proved wrong!
I'm a Rugby Union fan although I love a bit of League. The guy is a monster and his SF showing against New Zealand in the recent World Cup was one of the finest performances by an English athlete in any sport in the past 20 years.
But Union? I just can't see what position he would play. His oppo, who he outplayed in that SF game was Sonny Bill Williams, who obvously plays 12 in union, but I just can't see Burgess fitting in there. No 8? We've got loads, and it's a techincally difficult position. Flanker? Again, technical, with a hell of a lot of floor work involved. And whatever position he played, I certainly don't think he'd be ready for 2015. 2019 maybe.
Still, happy to be proved wrong!
My thoughts/mumblings..
If he played in the centre he would be a massive ball carrying, crash ball type, our other first choice centre would be Tualagi who is... a hard running, crash ball centre. All of the best teams in the world have a play making centre, this is what hopefully Billy 36 can grow into. Our attack would be too one dimensional and teams would be able to defend (relatively) easily against it. Plus our wingers would never touch the ball (although judging on saturdays game perhaps this is a good thing?)
This leaves him in the pack, his ball carrying and tackling is unquestionable but how quick/easy/efficient would it be teach him scrummaging, rucking, mauling & line out work.. I agree that i don't think he would be ready for 18 months time (or however long the world cup is away).
The games of League and Union are vastly different, although they share some of the same DNA they are totally different beasts..
If he did do it, it would be a fascinating experiment and certainly highlight the differences/similarities.
If he played in the centre he would be a massive ball carrying, crash ball type, our other first choice centre would be Tualagi who is... a hard running, crash ball centre. All of the best teams in the world have a play making centre, this is what hopefully Billy 36 can grow into. Our attack would be too one dimensional and teams would be able to defend (relatively) easily against it. Plus our wingers would never touch the ball (although judging on saturdays game perhaps this is a good thing?)
This leaves him in the pack, his ball carrying and tackling is unquestionable but how quick/easy/efficient would it be teach him scrummaging, rucking, mauling & line out work.. I agree that i don't think he would be ready for 18 months time (or however long the world cup is away).
The games of League and Union are vastly different, although they share some of the same DNA they are totally different beasts..
If he did do it, it would be a fascinating experiment and certainly highlight the differences/similarities.
I know less than f
k all about the 13 man game but read an article about Burgess in The Times this morning. They said much the same thing....can't see him being ready to play in RWC 2015 if he's playing 12, 13 or No 8. Especially No 8....that's not a position you can learn in a few months.
They made the point that Billy Wizz was so successful because playing in the back three in union has the most similarities to RL.
Has Burgess got the power to play off the base of a scrum at No 8 ? He's clearly got the physical attributes but it's different to taking kind of power than you need in RL I would think.
k all about the 13 man game but read an article about Burgess in The Times this morning. They said much the same thing....can't see him being ready to play in RWC 2015 if he's playing 12, 13 or No 8. Especially No 8....that's not a position you can learn in a few months.They made the point that Billy Wizz was so successful because playing in the back three in union has the most similarities to RL.
Has Burgess got the power to play off the base of a scrum at No 8 ? He's clearly got the physical attributes but it's different to taking kind of power than you need in RL I would think.
He’s a bit more than a crash ball player, he’s built like a forward but is some athlete and could show the current crop of English centres something about ball handling and distribution. Although Billy 36 had a good game at the weekend I’m not convinced he’ll cut it as an international centre, and even if he does show a bit more I think Lancaster will revert to a Barritt and MT partnership once both are fully fit.
We’ve had a few RL converts that haven’t lived up to their potential Andy Farrell himself, but I seem to recall he was in the back row for Saracens and at Centre for England? I think we’ve got allot of cover in that back row now, I’m a big fan of Tom Wood but I’d actually like to see Vunipola get a run out at #6 with Ben Morgan at 8. You’re loosing in the lineout but I’d like to see how those two went as both are great ball carriers. I could see Burgess playing at 6 actually but again we’ve plenty of cover there-Tom Croft to come back at some point too.
If he goes to Bath and start at 13 and goes well I see no reason why he couldn’t make the England side.
We’ve had a few RL converts that haven’t lived up to their potential Andy Farrell himself, but I seem to recall he was in the back row for Saracens and at Centre for England? I think we’ve got allot of cover in that back row now, I’m a big fan of Tom Wood but I’d actually like to see Vunipola get a run out at #6 with Ben Morgan at 8. You’re loosing in the lineout but I’d like to see how those two went as both are great ball carriers. I could see Burgess playing at 6 actually but again we’ve plenty of cover there-Tom Croft to come back at some point too.
If he goes to Bath and start at 13 and goes well I see no reason why he couldn’t make the England side.
a311 said:
I think Lancaster will revert to a Barritt and MT partnership once both are fully fit.
isn't there talk of putting MT on the wing? I know he's not exactly quick but IIRC neither he nor BB are known for their silky handling skills so that could be one way to ensure a good flow of ball (FWIW I'm not sure about MT on the wing!!)League fan popping in , bit if a surprise he has gone even with the rumors. Sam and the rest of his brothers were all set up in oz even his mum moved out there. The general opinion in RL circles is a big question mark. Will he be back ? Is he going just to play in the world cup and then cone back to league. He was on a big deal in oz will his wages be payed by bath or centrally ? How are the ex RL lads getting on eastmond Ashton etc ?
dav123a said:
He was on a big deal in oz will his wages be payed by bath or centrally ?
No idea how much money he was on in RL and how it compares. My guess is he'll be on £200k to £200k at Bath and can probably get that close to £500k if he plays for England regularly.
Players in France can earn £750k.
Long term if he becomes a star player for England I imagine that's worth a lot in terms of when he playing and when he's retired....
Cheib said:
No idea how much money he was on in RL and how it compares.
My guess is he'll be on £200k to £200k at Bath and can probably get that close to £500k if he plays for England regularly.
Players in France can earn £750k.
Long term if he becomes a star player for England I imagine that's worth a lot in terms of when he playing and when he's retired....
My understanding is he was on somewhere between 200k and 250k in oz. Reading about it it seems Souths were paid 500k for the rest of his contract. Sam is reported to be on somewhere between 500k and 700k . Seems a massive gamble with those sorts of numbers. I don't know anything about union so where will he play ? My guess is he'll be on £200k to £200k at Bath and can probably get that close to £500k if he plays for England regularly.
Players in France can earn £750k.
Long term if he becomes a star player for England I imagine that's worth a lot in terms of when he playing and when he's retired....
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