Discussion
I don't expect there's many sailing fans on here, but if you're bored tomorrow night about 9pm, switch Sky Sports 4 on, really is the most incredible sailing. Boats doing 50 mph with San Fransisco as the backdrop. You can also watch it live on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup
http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup
Anyone watching the highlights on bbc2 at the moment. Been great watching, wow those fins for plaining are built to withstand 14tons of pressure not bad for such I thin bit of carbon. Getting the balance is the key as they aren't movable. Why we're the yanks fined points about some measurement irregularities?
Baron Greenback said:
Anyone watching the highlights on bbc2 at the moment. Been great watching, wow those fins for plaining are built to withstand 14tons of pressure not bad for such I thin bit of carbon. Getting the balance is the key as they aren't movable. Why we're the yanks fined points about some measurement irregularities?
Well, basically they cheated during the AC45 series which is technically part of the America's cup. They altered some kingposts, added weight, all to make the boats (three of them) hmm "handle" better shall we say. There was also evidence of them removing the modifications. Caught with hand firmly in the cookie jar.. Personally I think they were very lucky not to have been kicked out of the regatta, but without them there would have been no sailing which would have been far worse for those of us who have waited 6 years since the last proper one. Anyway, the net result was the -2 point start, so effectly they have to win 11 and ETNZ 9.
Very close and interesting racing so far which is frankly astounding considering the design differences in the two boats.
Ellison will be furious if they lose this.
The whole tournament's been designed by him to feed his ego and set him up to win in the most extreme, widely broadcast AC to date. And now it looks very shaky indeed. The Oracle of Oracle didn't see that coming...
Been great viewing though I prefer the World Series in all honesty.
The whole tournament's been designed by him to feed his ego and set him up to win in the most extreme, widely broadcast AC to date. And now it looks very shaky indeed. The Oracle of Oracle didn't see that coming...
Been great viewing though I prefer the World Series in all honesty.
AnotherClarkey said:
johnfm said:
The Americas Cup has been a bit pointless since Australia finally won it in 1984.
I would say it was more pointless before Australia won it in 1983.The following years of court cases etc to decide outcomes tarnished it a bit.
Difficult to say, not sure he's been confirmed on the boat? Removing John Kostecki (tactician) at this stage would be a massive call. I will probably be proved wrong but I think they will keep him on today, it would be hugely demoralising for the team spirit I think to pull him now.
To me, the main reason Oracle got hammered in that last race was due to the way they set the boat up. It's clear they've been moding their boat for performance on the first reach, and in the downwind legs but this appears to have seriously affected their upwind performance. I think that's the real reason they took their toys and went home. They had to make changes to the boat which they couldn't do on the water.
Oracle as a team, seem to be struggling with tactics and generally lacking cool heads. Jimmy Spithall is an amazing match racer and hugely dominant in the starts, but it appears to me that after the start he is being too aggressive with the boat. Dean Barker knows there is a great chance if he keeps it close after the first two legs to sail around Oracle due to a very slightly better boat upwind. I think it's mainly due to the indisputable fact that the NZ boat and crew tacks much more efficiently than Oracle. They are very close everywhere else in other manoeuvres. The race NZ lost they had boat handling issues, apparently some hydraulic problems.
If Oracle sail the best they can it will be very, very close, if they don't you'll see NZ walk away with it. One reason I don't think Ben Ainslie is necessarily the right man for the job is that his background is largely dinghy sailing, and the best chance Oracle have hereis to stay ahead, be conservative, and loosely cover NZ, not engage in a tacking duel. If they get into a tacking duel, the NZ boat is losing far less distance than Oracle every time they do a tack.
To me, the main reason Oracle got hammered in that last race was due to the way they set the boat up. It's clear they've been moding their boat for performance on the first reach, and in the downwind legs but this appears to have seriously affected their upwind performance. I think that's the real reason they took their toys and went home. They had to make changes to the boat which they couldn't do on the water.
Oracle as a team, seem to be struggling with tactics and generally lacking cool heads. Jimmy Spithall is an amazing match racer and hugely dominant in the starts, but it appears to me that after the start he is being too aggressive with the boat. Dean Barker knows there is a great chance if he keeps it close after the first two legs to sail around Oracle due to a very slightly better boat upwind. I think it's mainly due to the indisputable fact that the NZ boat and crew tacks much more efficiently than Oracle. They are very close everywhere else in other manoeuvres. The race NZ lost they had boat handling issues, apparently some hydraulic problems.
If Oracle sail the best they can it will be very, very close, if they don't you'll see NZ walk away with it. One reason I don't think Ben Ainslie is necessarily the right man for the job is that his background is largely dinghy sailing, and the best chance Oracle have hereis to stay ahead, be conservative, and loosely cover NZ, not engage in a tacking duel. If they get into a tacking duel, the NZ boat is losing far less distance than Oracle every time they do a tack.
That's a rather good analysis, and is largely supported by the data from each of the races.
Clearly on race 4, the only race the Kiwis lost, was the one where they were slower in average and max speed on the upwind leg. Even so, they only lost a few seconds overall despite making 9 tacks to the 6 by USA.
Quite amusing to hear hardly anything other than an Antipodean accents from all quarters.
Impressed that Grant Dalton at 56 still manages to hack his place. Must add something to the mix that makes up for any potential physical issues. I couldn't hack that these days, not in a million miles, being an old fart.
Re Ainslie, I wondered if he would be appointed tactician, but a huge call, and not sure if egos might clash.
Do you know if they can get tactical advice from support crews by radio, or is that banned? Seems as if USA struggle with adapting tactics on the hoof. Looking at the graphics on the flood direction after the first downwind leg, it seemed barking to go off to starboard on the early upwind leg, the poorly executed gybe into a tack just sealed it. Even so impressed how Kiwis just drove away from them.
Clearly on race 4, the only race the Kiwis lost, was the one where they were slower in average and max speed on the upwind leg. Even so, they only lost a few seconds overall despite making 9 tacks to the 6 by USA.
Quite amusing to hear hardly anything other than an Antipodean accents from all quarters.
Impressed that Grant Dalton at 56 still manages to hack his place. Must add something to the mix that makes up for any potential physical issues. I couldn't hack that these days, not in a million miles, being an old fart.
Re Ainslie, I wondered if he would be appointed tactician, but a huge call, and not sure if egos might clash.
Do you know if they can get tactical advice from support crews by radio, or is that banned? Seems as if USA struggle with adapting tactics on the hoof. Looking at the graphics on the flood direction after the first downwind leg, it seemed barking to go off to starboard on the early upwind leg, the poorly executed gybe into a tack just sealed it. Even so impressed how Kiwis just drove away from them.
I think that's a very sound analysis.
I'm expecting today to provide an answer though. If Oracle have regrouped, re-trimmed the boat and deliver a contest, then I think we'll be in for a Regatta. If we get more of the same I can't see it improving for them. Playing the cancellation card and the last 24 hours will be the pivotal ones...
I'm expecting today to provide an answer though. If Oracle have regrouped, re-trimmed the boat and deliver a contest, then I think we'll be in for a Regatta. If we get more of the same I can't see it improving for them. Playing the cancellation card and the last 24 hours will be the pivotal ones...
FiF said:
Impressed that Grant Dalton at 56 still manages to hack his place. Must add something to the mix that makes up for any potential physical issues. I couldn't hack that these days, not in a million miles, being an old fart.
For anyone wanting to watch it live online, 9.15pm tonight http://www.americascup.com/about/broadcast click on youtube link 'Live'
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