When sportsmen get banned....

[Kermit power]

Should they be banned for the next X number of matches they play in, or the next X number of matches they play in for the team they were playing for when they committed the infraction?

To take a recent example, Worcester rugby centre Josh Matavesi has been banned for 4 weeks for a dangerous tackle.

I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have been banned, but the timing of his ban means he will miss the last two games of Worcester's Premiership season, and Fiji's first two games in the Pacific Nations cup. This seems pretty unfair on Fiji, given that they're taking the punishment of losing a player for an infraction he incurred playing for another team?

Wouldn't it be fairer all round to say that the ban has to be served on matches for the team for whom the player was playing when they committed the infraction? Infraction for club = miss club games, infraction for country = miss internationals?

Obviously something would have to be done for players changing teams during a ban, but other than that, this just seems like the only fair outcome to me, so why isn't it done this way?

[Vocal Minority]

The ban is meant to impact the player - don't forget the point is as a deterrent as much as anything - rather than the club. If he was allowed to play for Fiji, would it be as big a deterrent.

I understand the point you are making - but I think the current system is fair.

On a side note - Josh is a good kid, with lots of potential. He isn't a dirty player either. However, he is very excitable in defence, which has lead to several clumsy/careless challenges this year, and he has spent some time kicking heel because of it.

[Kermit power]

Vocal Minority said:

The ban is meant to impact the player - don't forget the point is as a deterrent as much as anything - rather than the club. If he was allowed to play for Fiji, would it be as big a deterrent.

I understand the point you are making - but I think the current system is fair.

On a side note - Josh is a good kid, with lots of potential. He isn't a dirty player either. However, he is very excitable in defence, which has lead to several clumsy/careless challenges this year, and he has spent some time kicking heel because of it.

The flipside to your argument is that players might be more willing to risk a ban during an international if they know it's going to be served out in club games.

The ban is surely going to impact the player either way, but it's harsh to impact the non-offending team?

To take an extreme example, look at Bloodgate. Tom Williams was rightly banned as the player involved, but the bans were far, far more significant for the coach and physio involved, and that was an act of foul play which was clearly instigated by the team.

Banning Williams under the current rules didn't only make him unavailable to Quins, it also made him unavailable to the England Sevens team (I don't know if he would've been selected or not, but he certainly played for them in the season before the scandal). Given that the ban resulted from the actions of the Quins coaching team, was it fair that the England Sevens coaching team should effectively share the punishment?

[Vocal Minority]

Well the team, as in Worcester, did not commit the offence. So why should they suffer at all? It was the individual.

So are we talking no bans, only fines?

I don't think the system is perfect, but it is the best of the alternatives

[Kermit power]

Vocal Minority said:

Well the team, as in Worcester, did not commit the offence. So why should they suffer at all? It was the individual.

So are we talking no bans, only fines?

I don't think the system is perfect, but it is the best of the alternatives

You could argue that Worcester did commit the offence, insofar as it was committed by someone playing for Worcester at the time. We don't know what Richard Hill's last minute team talk was. Was it "get in their faces", or was it "avoid giving away penalties at all costs", or somewhere in between?

You only need to compare the way some players play for club vs country to see just how much impact the team can have on the player.