Greatest Olympian
Discussion
Probably been done before but can't find the thread.
Have just listened to R4 and then R5 having this discussion with swimming commentators who reckon Michael Phelps is the greatest ("How many nations row?").
Many top 10 lists give it to Steve Redgrave and Seb Coe puts Daley Thompson top (though rumor has it he doesn't get on with Redgrave who he puts 8th!).
My top 3 would be:
1. Redgrave.
2. Thompson.
3. Phelps.
Would be interested in the collective PH opinion.
Have just listened to R4 and then R5 having this discussion with swimming commentators who reckon Michael Phelps is the greatest ("How many nations row?").
Many top 10 lists give it to Steve Redgrave and Seb Coe puts Daley Thompson top (though rumor has it he doesn't get on with Redgrave who he puts 8th!).
My top 3 would be:
1. Redgrave.
2. Thompson.
3. Phelps.
Would be interested in the collective PH opinion.
Greatest Olypmian is a subjective term, and it's being discussed on the back of the most decorated and not necessarily greatest.
After all, runners don't get 4 medals for sprinting the 100m in 4 different styles. The medal table is dominated by gymnasts + swimmers, who can all win multiple medals at one games.
Michael Johnson and John McEnroe were discussing it last night, Carl Lewis and Jesse Owens were both mentioned. Those are both good calls IMO.
After all, runners don't get 4 medals for sprinting the 100m in 4 different styles. The medal table is dominated by gymnasts + swimmers, who can all win multiple medals at one games.
Michael Johnson and John McEnroe were discussing it last night, Carl Lewis and Jesse Owens were both mentioned. Those are both good calls IMO.
I suppose in simple terms it is whoever amasses the most medals, but in reality I think this is trickier than that as some sports invariably provide more opportunity to amass more medals. It is also necessary to truly set side jingoism and favouritism, which is harder to do than I think most people realise. Swimmers will tend to always cite Phelps, rowers will tend to always cite Redgrave and so on. It’s worth noting that by the end of today Bradley Wiggins may have more won more medals than Redgrave, but neither of them is anywhere near having the most medals of all time. For instance, Larisa Latynina beats Redgrave by quite some amount yet I suspect most people won’t remember her.
Michael Phelps has the most medals and whilst I would never say swimming is easy it does provide quite a lot of opportunities for individuals to compete in numerous events in each Olympics, thereby increasing the opportunity for medal winning. By comparison, Steve Redgrave has significantly less medals but they were achieved over a longer period of time. For me, that is a greater achievement but that is ultimately a subjective choice.
As with many of these sorts of things, I don’t think being the most decorated Olympian automatically makes someone the greatest Olympian. A degree of subjective judgement is required and that’s where you get differences of opinion.
Michael Phelps has the most medals and whilst I would never say swimming is easy it does provide quite a lot of opportunities for individuals to compete in numerous events in each Olympics, thereby increasing the opportunity for medal winning. By comparison, Steve Redgrave has significantly less medals but they were achieved over a longer period of time. For me, that is a greater achievement but that is ultimately a subjective choice.
As with many of these sorts of things, I don’t think being the most decorated Olympian automatically makes someone the greatest Olympian. A degree of subjective judgement is required and that’s where you get differences of opinion.
You'd have to include Johnson himself.....very unsual for someone to win Gold at 200m and 400m let alone in the same games. So I would say that puts him right up there.
I'd also say if Wiggins wins the TT today that puts him right up there.....winning Gold in the Individual Pursuit and then Gold in the Time Trial must be very,very unusual.
I think the Thompson thing is probably GB tinted spectacles.
Jackie Joyner-Kersee won two Gold's and a Silver as a Heptathlete and a Gold for Long Jump so she has a betetr calim than DT. That's speaking as someone who lived every minute of DT's performance in the middle of the night during the LA Olympics as a teenager!
I'd also say if Wiggins wins the TT today that puts him right up there.....winning Gold in the Individual Pursuit and then Gold in the Time Trial must be very,very unusual.
I think the Thompson thing is probably GB tinted spectacles.
Jackie Joyner-Kersee won two Gold's and a Silver as a Heptathlete and a Gold for Long Jump so she has a betetr calim than DT. That's speaking as someone who lived every minute of DT's performance in the middle of the night during the LA Olympics as a teenager!
Cheib said:
You'd have to include Johnson himself.....very unsual for someone to win Gold at 200m and 400m let alone in the same games. So I would say that puts him right up there.
I'd also say if Wiggins wins the TT today that puts him right up there.....winning Gold in the Individual Pursuit and then Gold in the Time Trial must be very,very unusual.
I think the Thompson thing is probably GB tinted spectacles.
Jackie Joyner-Kersee won two Gold's and a Silver as a Heptathlete and a Gold for Long Jump so she has a betetr calim than DT. That's speaking as someone who lived every minute of DT's performance in the middle of the night during the LA Olympics as a teenager!
DT got into my list because he had a fantastic attitude. He p****d off the authorities at a time when they acted as though they were more important than the athletes.I'd also say if Wiggins wins the TT today that puts him right up there.....winning Gold in the Individual Pursuit and then Gold in the Time Trial must be very,very unusual.
I think the Thompson thing is probably GB tinted spectacles.
Jackie Joyner-Kersee won two Gold's and a Silver as a Heptathlete and a Gold for Long Jump so she has a betetr calim than DT. That's speaking as someone who lived every minute of DT's performance in the middle of the night during the LA Olympics as a teenager!
SR got my vote not only because of the 5 medals in an endurance event over 20 years with 2 potentially debilitating illnesses.
Surprised this fella's not been mentioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_Nurmi
Golds in 9 events ranging from 1500m to 10000m including gold in 1500m and 5000m races which finished within two hours of each other. Another three silvers and arguably the only reason he didn't get more was because he was banned for being professional.
A crazy quantity of medals especially for the track.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_Nurmi
Golds in 9 events ranging from 1500m to 10000m including gold in 1500m and 5000m races which finished within two hours of each other. Another three silvers and arguably the only reason he didn't get more was because he was banned for being professional.
A crazy quantity of medals especially for the track.
Another of the flying Finns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasse_Virén
Four goldsin 5000 and 10000. Ran so fast in the Munich games that even after being tripped, falling to the floor and losing 10-15 seconds he got up, sprinted to the pack, kicked with 600 meters to go and not only won but broke the world record! From siting on his arse to the world record! Great runner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasse_Virén
Four goldsin 5000 and 10000. Ran so fast in the Munich games that even after being tripped, falling to the floor and losing 10-15 seconds he got up, sprinted to the pack, kicked with 600 meters to go and not only won but broke the world record! From siting on his arse to the world record! Great runner.
sebdangerfield said:
Surprised this fella's not been mentioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_Nurmi
Golds in 9 events ranging from 1500m to 10000m including gold in 1500m and 5000m races which finished within two hours of each other. Another three silvers and arguably the only reason he didn't get more was because he was banned for being professional.
A crazy quantity of medals especially for the track.
Agreed, a legend as is lasse viren, the two flying Finns but don't forget the Check locomotive Emil Zatopek. Wish I could post the link to Wikipedia . Perhaps some of you more tech savvy PHers might oblige.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_Nurmi
Golds in 9 events ranging from 1500m to 10000m including gold in 1500m and 5000m races which finished within two hours of each other. Another three silvers and arguably the only reason he didn't get more was because he was banned for being professional.
A crazy quantity of medals especially for the track.
ArmaghMan said:
sebdangerfield said:
Surprised this fella's not been mentioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_Nurmi
Golds in 9 events ranging from 1500m to 10000m including gold in 1500m and 5000m races which finished within two hours of each other. Another three silvers and arguably the only reason he didn't get more was because he was banned for being professional.
A crazy quantity of medals especially for the track.
Agreed, a legend as is lasse viren, the two flying Finns but don't forget the Check locomotive Emil Zatopek. Wish I could post the link to Wikipedia . Perhaps some of you more tech savvy PHers might oblige.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_Nurmi
Golds in 9 events ranging from 1500m to 10000m including gold in 1500m and 5000m races which finished within two hours of each other. Another three silvers and arguably the only reason he didn't get more was because he was banned for being professional.
A crazy quantity of medals especially for the track.
In 1952 after winning gold in the 5000 and 10000 he entered the marathon at the last minute. He'd never run a marathon before so decided his best tactics were to keep level with Jim Peters, the British world record holder. Peters went out quickly trying to exhaust Zatopek but after 15k Zatopek asked Peters how he thought race was going. Peters knowing he'd over exerted himself and astonished that a newcomer to the sport could run like this replied that the pace was too slow in an attempt to throw Zatopek. Zatopek fell for the ploy and accelerated away from Peters. Peters, after pushing too hard too early, didn't finish. Zatopek did, first and with a new Olympic record.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Zátopek
I must say I find it hard to properly respect swimming. Any sport where so many people can enter and be competiive in three or four or more events just doesn't cut it for me. And that is without considering the really exceptional athletes like Phelps who are entering and winning SEVEN!
For me the greatest Olympian needs to deliver over several games in an event that requires total or near total dedication to that event, so decathlon, long distance running, rowing, etc..
For me the greatest Olympian needs to deliver over several games in an event that requires total or near total dedication to that event, so decathlon, long distance running, rowing, etc..
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