Q for the big dumb apes....sorry, Forwards

[BananaBok]

I played rugby throughout my time at school and have loved (mostly watching) the game for as long as I can remember, although having the athletic prowess of a mosquito I was relegated to the 4th teams scrum half and hidden behind the big lumps to maintain my pretty boy looks

One thing that still amazes/confuses me is something that is probably barely thought about by most, but having experienced it first hand Im curious to find out how forwards handle it.

What Im talking about is the ruck. I was unfortunate enough to get unceramoniously bundle into a ruck on quite a few occassions by big dumb ap...fowards who were making their way at "speed" towards a forming ruck. I had at least 2 very serious situations where I ended up underneath a pile of big lumps and I literally couldnt take a breath. Not for the smell of the forwards, but due to the crushing weight above me, and I have this horrible memory of lying there unable to take a breath, while the ruck seemed to go on and on.

One got to the point where I was in a massive panic, but couldnt shout, wave an arm, or indicate in any way other than turning red, then blue, that I was going to die if these heffa's didnt get off of me!!

When you watch a game, you see players at the bottom of the ruck who are in all sorts of awkward positions, with 6 or more other 18 stone players piled on top of them, and a scrum half who's not playing the ball because he's waiting for the backline to form. I want to know how forwards handle this? Surely they cant breath, and there must be a sense of panic at being literally trapped under all these people for sometimes long periods. Is there a technique forwards use? or does the fact forwards are big lumps themselves mean they dont feel the crush as badly? Is it simply a case of trying to take in what air you can and staying calm?

I know rucks are short in terms of the whole game, but being without air for over 30 seconds while being crushed is more than enough to leave you thanking god you're still alive, trust me.

Reading this back, maybe Im making to big a deal about it, but to this day I always watch the ruck to try and work out how someone can stay calm under that, and also wonder if they use a technique or are simply seriously strong and able to make themselves a bit of room despite the mass of weight above them?

Edited by BananaBok on Thursday 23 February 12:03

[pwd95]

Brilliant post. I remember feeling like this at school several times. Only played about 6 games as an adult at around age 30. By then, after 12 years of powerlifting I found I was able to 'tighten up' enough to take the weight & keep on breathing.

Made me chuckle that.

[oj121]

Dont know about others but I for the most part was a no.8 when I played and I generally had a good idea when I was going to hit the deck and did my level best to get into a position that would afford me some movement or the ability to breath. Other than that if you ended up in the 'bundle' I generally tried to take the weight if I wasnt on the bottom and hope the favour would be returned when it was my turn.

The more intelligent forwards (the backrowers) try to look after eachother in those situations rfom my experience.

[Bosshogg76]

Brilliant post, I always found if i could get on my side and take the weight across my shoulders in general I would be fine. The worst position for me, was if i ended up on my back, in that case it was definitely "keep calm and remember it will all be over soon"

I'm sure I have read a book or a post where one guy describes being caught in a ruck on his front, face in a puddle slowly panicking as he realised he couldn't move or get a breath.

[DannyScene]

Brilliant post, When I played I was second row which meant I barely ever ended up in a ruck without binding onto the other second rower first this usually meant we held eachother up for the most part. It was beyond annoying when the little pretty boy wouldn't play the ball because the backs weren't in formation.

Slightly off topic but my worst memory of a ruck was landing on someones chest knees first, there was an awful sound(I may have heard it in my head though) as the guy broke a rib(or 2 never found out) and the sheer look of pain and panic on his face as I tried to rip everyone off him was genuinely haunting.

Oh god I miss rucks and mauls and can't wait for the day my achilles is strong enough to play again.

ETA: sorry I've just realised this has nothing to do with the OP's question and I've just waffled on

Also remember OP forwards are likely to have stronger chest and core muscles than your comparably woman like scrum half frame

Edited by DannyScene on Thursday 23 February 14:15

[BananaBok]

Bosshogg76 said:

I'm sure I have read a book or a post where one guy describes being caught in a ruck on his front, face in a puddle slowly panicking as he realised he couldn't move or get a breath.

Now that would be terrifying, and all the while those above you are oblivious, it's that inability to indicate you're in a bad position that is the scariest and most frustrating thing.

So it really is about trying to drop in the correct position? I think my size didnt help in that I was bowled over before being able to consider the best way to "present myself" All I had in my mind was surviving, it was a horrible experience and one I always tried to avoid, but was inevitable in some situations.

I suspect some of the forwards enjoyed seeing the scrum half in the murky depths of the ruck and decided to show me what life as a forward is all about, lol, I was quite mouthy and full of crap a lot of the time so there's a small chance I deserved some of it. I stick to watching now, and love learning about the intricities (that means 'finer details' for the forwards here) of the game and different positions.

[BananaBok]

DannyScene said:

Also remember OP forwards are likely to have stronger chest and core muscles than your comparably woman like scrum half frame

Edited by DannyScene on Thursday 23 February 14:15

Lol, that must certainly help, though the fact remains this womanly frame got more attention from the girls than all the forwards put together

[Cheib]

This has really brought back memories of schoolboy rugby. I remember this feeling vividly but as one of the Forwards it was part of the territory and certainly didn't stop me wanting to play. Having said that I don't ever remember been terrified.....just in a lot of discomfort perhaps for a few seconds though I am sure it seemed a lot longer than it actually was.

The thing I remember from playing when I was say 12 or 13 was suddenly playing against people that were big and strong enough that could really hurt you if you didn't tackel with the proper techinique or the fact that they were jus so much bigger than you. I remember playing for my school when I was probably say 13 and suddenly there would be these freak kids that were 6ft tall who could grow a beard and were bigger than your teacher!

[DannyScene]

BananaBok said:

DannyScene said:

Also remember OP forwards are likely to have stronger chest and core muscles than your comparably woman like scrum half frame

Edited by DannyScene on Thursday 23 February 14:15

Lol, that must certainly help, though the fact remains this womanly frame got more attention from the girls than all the forwards put together

Haha, touche my friend! As an ex-forward I'm ashamed but well placed to say your probably right.

[Lefty]

BananaBok said:

Now that would be terrifying, and all the while those above you are oblivious, it's that inability to indicate you're in a bad position that is the scariest and most frustrating thing.

So it really is about trying to drop in the correct position? I think my size didnt help in that I was bowled over before being able to consider the best way to "present myself" All I had in my mind was surviving, it was a horrible experience and one I always tried to avoid, but was inevitable in some situations.

I suspect some of the forwards enjoyed seeing the scrum half in the murky depths of the ruck and decided to show me what life as a forward is all about, lol, I was quite mouthy and full of crap a lot of the time so there's a small chance I deserved some of it. I stick to watching now, and love learning about the intricities (that means 'finer details' for the forwards here) of the game and different positions.

Did you mean intricacies?

[BananaBok]

Lefty said:

Did you mean intricacies?

Lets not dwell on the intricacities of how it's spelt

Edited by BananaBok on Thursday 23 February 16:01

[Bosshogg76]

BananaBok said:

I suspect some of the forwards enjoyed seeing the scrum half in the murky depths of the ruck and decided to show me what life as a forward is all about, lol, I was quite mouthy and full of crap a lot of the time so there's a small chance I deserved some of it. I stick to watching now, and love learning about the intricities (that means 'finer details' for the forwards here) of the game and different positions.

Ah there was nothing finer than when the ref was looking the other way, snaking an arm out and dragging the opposition scrum half kicking and screaming into the ruck. "hands off me you brute, ref ref arrgghhh"

I do remember a particularly dictatorial scrum half i played with occasionally, who invariably managed to get through a whole game perfectly clean. So during one particularly boggy game, where the pack had turned into mud men and he remained pristine. He was found loitering, as scrum halves do, waiting for us to clear the ball out, however one enterprising second row smashed him into the ruck pinned him and ensured a good layer of mud was deposited on his kit. He was most disgruntled at that.

[ExChrispy Porker]

Worst ruck I was ever in was the one when my right foot ended up between my shoulder blades. And then the weight came in.
I think either face down or face up is the main problem. Either can be a problem.
Face down in water is not nice, nor is being shoed in the face.

Still if you can't take a joke...

[oj121]

ExChrispy Porker said:

Worst ruck I was ever in was the one when my right foot ended up between my shoulder blades. And then the weight came in.
I think either face down or face up is the main problem. Either can be a problem.
Face down in water is not nice, nor is being shoed in the face.

Still if you can't take a joke...

Been there mate!! I ended up with both feet touching my shoulder blades. Its the only time I ever left the field injured but also surprising how flexible you can be when you need to be ha!

[Lefty]

BananaBok said:

Lets not dwell on the intricacities of how it's spelt

Edited by BananaBok on Thursday 23 February 16:01

Sweet irony. I played second row AND I can spell

[Don1]

I think the only appropriate answer is is 'man up, or leave it for the big boys'.

[ExChrispy Porker]

oj121 said:

Been there mate!! I ended up with both feet touching my shoulder blades. Its the only time I ever left the field injured but also surprising how flexible you can be when you need to be ha!

Indeed.
I left in an ambulance, for the first time in my career. Still the gas and air was quite nice

[BananaBok]

Lefty said:

Sweet irony. I played second row AND I can spell

That's probably what prevented you from making the big time, you really wouldnt fit in

As for feet to shoulder blades, whoa!! I dont remember a ref ever stopping a game due to someone being in a really bad position in the ruck, not sure they'd see them, or I suppose they wouldnt want to stop the game unless they were certain there was sufficient need. Must be pretty terrifying getting folded in half unable to do anything.

Love watching the ruck as part of the game, and with the over scrutinising (sp) of the scrum it's good to have something that's still a full on free for all, just glad I get to watch it from a safe distance.

[oj121]

Ref didnt stop the game. All the idiots just kept on plodding. My no.9 ended up calling the ref cos he realised his protections wasnt there and didnt want to get hurt ha. I didnt end up with any injury surprisingly. My lower back was just a little tender for a few days. I really want to get back playing but being able to train only twice every 5 weeks and being available for selection twice every 5 makes it seem a little pointless.

[BananaBok]

oj121 said:

Ref didnt stop the game. All the idiots just kept on plodding. My no.9 ended up calling the ref cos he realised his protections wasnt there and didnt want to get hurt ha. I didnt end up with any injury surprisingly. My lower back was just a little tender for a few days. I really want to get back playing but being able to train only twice every 5 weeks and being available for selection twice every 5 makes it seem a little pointless.

Meant in general, refs dont really look for a player in trouble under there, and Ive never seen a ref stop the game for a players safety while in the ruck. I think forwards get so toughened up they just take the punishment, but for anyone just starting, or not usually involved in rucks, it's certainly an eye opener.

Cant blame your 9 for helping himself by helping you He could have been tackled, and it's a serious pain if you have to get changed after the game cause you managed to get mud on your kit. Unless people have to ask you if you've played your game yet, you're not a good scrum half

It's fun to think back to playing rugger at school, even the terrifying moments at the bottom of rucks. I have a massive amount of respect for the forwards, I actually played at hooker in primary school, but as others got bigger I stayed about the same, and after a year or two there was no way it was viable, not that I was complaining, I couldnt make up a worse position!!

I started playing at school at about 8 years old, thinking back it was just pure chaos, none of us really knew any of the rules and just ran in the general direction of the try line, kind of like Englands 2011 World Cup squad, lol. Was a lot of fun though, even at high school I only made the 4th team (sometimes 3rd if they were really short of players), actually played against Kearsney College a few times, where Brad Barritt learned his trade (though my games were probably before he was born), although my school's 4th team played their 8th team, such was the depth of talent they had. We still lost.

Edited by BananaBok on Friday 24th February 12:44