Should the Footabll/ Premier League move to an American Styl
Discussion
Mods: Please leave this here as it would be good to get the views of American sports fans who do not venture into the football threads!
So, there has been a lot in the press over the last few years asking if the current premier league model is sustainable. FIFA/UEFA have introduced financial fair play rules which are being laughed at by the likes of Man City. Also, to be honest I have been feeling more ‘detached’ from football over the last few seasons as more and more billionaires invest, On a personal level I simply cant relate to the hundreds of millions of pounds being spent by clubs, or the fact players seem more and more ‘aloof’ to their very rich status (Mr Tevez said he was treated like a dog, well for £200k per week, is it unreasonable to expect him to bark?)
So, sat in the pub last night watching Arsenal get their arse kicked, we started talking about this very situation. It occurred to us that one way for FIFA & UEFA to control the game would be to introduce a Picks system like they have in American Football.
For those of you who don’t know; in American Football, the top players at high school (secondary school here) are awarded scholarships to go to university, who go on to play for the university team (which is a very lucrative market anyway) and are then drafted into the NFL- this means all the teams in the league(s?) pick the top players from those university teams. In essence it’s a feeder system designed to breed winners with years of experience before they even reach “the big leagues”. The players are brought up to believe in dying for their team and if they become injured or are dropped they have a degree to fall back on (with practical work experience to boot) I believe they also have wage caps.
So how does this control the money? Well, initially the majority of your team would come from universities which would lower wages. So you don’t fall foul of any trade restriction laws players are free to move nationally/internationally as well but for this to work you would also need to introduce wage caps universally.
There are also the social-economic aspects to consider- our ‘promising young footballers’ are forced to study if they want to play and become successful- this gives them a focus to stay in school and play the game. It also allows people from poorer background to go to a university they may not necessarily afford without the scholarship.
What do you think? I strongly doubt it would happen, but I actually think it’s a successful model which has worked for a national sport which has proven to help both sports and social problems and could do wonders in the UK and around the globe if FIFA really want to revolutionise the game.
So, there has been a lot in the press over the last few years asking if the current premier league model is sustainable. FIFA/UEFA have introduced financial fair play rules which are being laughed at by the likes of Man City. Also, to be honest I have been feeling more ‘detached’ from football over the last few seasons as more and more billionaires invest, On a personal level I simply cant relate to the hundreds of millions of pounds being spent by clubs, or the fact players seem more and more ‘aloof’ to their very rich status (Mr Tevez said he was treated like a dog, well for £200k per week, is it unreasonable to expect him to bark?)
So, sat in the pub last night watching Arsenal get their arse kicked, we started talking about this very situation. It occurred to us that one way for FIFA & UEFA to control the game would be to introduce a Picks system like they have in American Football.
For those of you who don’t know; in American Football, the top players at high school (secondary school here) are awarded scholarships to go to university, who go on to play for the university team (which is a very lucrative market anyway) and are then drafted into the NFL- this means all the teams in the league(s?) pick the top players from those university teams. In essence it’s a feeder system designed to breed winners with years of experience before they even reach “the big leagues”. The players are brought up to believe in dying for their team and if they become injured or are dropped they have a degree to fall back on (with practical work experience to boot) I believe they also have wage caps.
So how does this control the money? Well, initially the majority of your team would come from universities which would lower wages. So you don’t fall foul of any trade restriction laws players are free to move nationally/internationally as well but for this to work you would also need to introduce wage caps universally.
There are also the social-economic aspects to consider- our ‘promising young footballers’ are forced to study if they want to play and become successful- this gives them a focus to stay in school and play the game. It also allows people from poorer background to go to a university they may not necessarily afford without the scholarship.
What do you think? I strongly doubt it would happen, but I actually think it’s a successful model which has worked for a national sport which has proven to help both sports and social problems and could do wonders in the UK and around the globe if FIFA really want to revolutionise the game.
DarrenL said:
Mods: Please leave this here as it would be good to get the views of American sports fans who do not venture into the football threads!
So, there has been a lot in the press over the last few years asking if the current premier league model is sustainable. FIFA/UEFA have introduced financial fair play rules which are being laughed at by the likes of Man City. Also, to be honest I have been feeling more ‘detached’ from football over the last few seasons as more and more billionaires invest, On a personal level I simply cant relate to the hundreds of millions of pounds being spent by clubs, or the fact players seem more and more ‘aloof’ to their very rich status (Mr Tevez said he was treated like a dog, well for £200k per week, is it unreasonable to expect him to bark?)
So, sat in the pub last night watching Arsenal get their arse kicked, we started talking about this very situation. It occurred to us that one way for FIFA & UEFA to control the game would be to introduce a Picks system like they have in American Football.
For those of you who don’t know; in American Football, the top players at high school (secondary school here) are awarded scholarships to go to university, who go on to play for the university team (which is a very lucrative market anyway) and are then drafted into the NFL- this means all the teams in the league(s?) pick the top players from those university teams. In essence it’s a feeder system designed to breed winners with years of experience before they even reach “the big leagues”. The players are brought up to believe in dying for their team and if they become injured or are dropped they have a degree to fall back on (with practical work experience to boot) I believe they also have wage caps.
So how does this control the money? Well, initially the majority of your team would come from universities which would lower wages. So you don’t fall foul of any trade restriction laws players are free to move nationally/internationally as well but for this to work you would also need to introduce wage caps universally.
There are also the social-economic aspects to consider- our ‘promising young footballers’ are forced to study if they want to play and become successful- this gives them a focus to stay in school and play the game. It also allows people from poorer background to go to a university they may not necessarily afford without the scholarship.
What do you think? I strongly doubt it would happen, but I actually think it’s a successful model which has worked for a national sport which has proven to help both sports and social problems and could do wonders in the UK and around the globe if FIFA really want to revolutionise the game.
You forgot to add that the draft picks are effectively in reverse order so that the best team gets to pick last and the worst team gets the best. Over a period of time the relative strength of teams changes so that no hopers become winners.So, there has been a lot in the press over the last few years asking if the current premier league model is sustainable. FIFA/UEFA have introduced financial fair play rules which are being laughed at by the likes of Man City. Also, to be honest I have been feeling more ‘detached’ from football over the last few seasons as more and more billionaires invest, On a personal level I simply cant relate to the hundreds of millions of pounds being spent by clubs, or the fact players seem more and more ‘aloof’ to their very rich status (Mr Tevez said he was treated like a dog, well for £200k per week, is it unreasonable to expect him to bark?)
So, sat in the pub last night watching Arsenal get their arse kicked, we started talking about this very situation. It occurred to us that one way for FIFA & UEFA to control the game would be to introduce a Picks system like they have in American Football.
For those of you who don’t know; in American Football, the top players at high school (secondary school here) are awarded scholarships to go to university, who go on to play for the university team (which is a very lucrative market anyway) and are then drafted into the NFL- this means all the teams in the league(s?) pick the top players from those university teams. In essence it’s a feeder system designed to breed winners with years of experience before they even reach “the big leagues”. The players are brought up to believe in dying for their team and if they become injured or are dropped they have a degree to fall back on (with practical work experience to boot) I believe they also have wage caps.
So how does this control the money? Well, initially the majority of your team would come from universities which would lower wages. So you don’t fall foul of any trade restriction laws players are free to move nationally/internationally as well but for this to work you would also need to introduce wage caps universally.
There are also the social-economic aspects to consider- our ‘promising young footballers’ are forced to study if they want to play and become successful- this gives them a focus to stay in school and play the game. It also allows people from poorer background to go to a university they may not necessarily afford without the scholarship.
What do you think? I strongly doubt it would happen, but I actually think it’s a successful model which has worked for a national sport which has proven to help both sports and social problems and could do wonders in the UK and around the globe if FIFA really want to revolutionise the game.
Apart from it being fundamentally different in every possible way to the ethos of British and European sport in general it works best where careers are short and turnover of players high (Football) and much less well where careers are long (Baseball)
But its pros and cons. The "Degree" education the player gets is nothing of the sort really. They are recruited by Universities simply because of their sporting talent, they are not seriously receiving any more than basic education. Its pretty cynical tbh.College football is big business.
The players are almost selectively bred to be monsters and the stories of fairly young men being crippled and unable to even play with their children are sobering.
It amounts to "The Show" being all important , i.e. the league/series being able to command maximum TV revenues (Sound familiar)
The biggest difference is that American Sport in general is suprisingly "Socialist" in its outlook. Its not a meritocracy as such. The best teams are reigned in and the worst teams made better to make the whole more competitive and even.
All TV money is collectively negotiated at league level, working as a co-operative essentially.
European Football is the opposite. Its survival of the fittest. The results are pretty much the same in the end though.
The clearest contrast for me is Motorsport.
NASCAR - Big crowds, Big TV deal, Lots of exciting racing. Laughably crude unsophisticated cars and teams. Little or no interest outside the 15 mins concentration US market.
F1 - Big Crowds, Huge TV Deal, Not a lot of overtaking, Lots of very boring politics.
Sensational exciting cars at the very forefront of engineering racing at a worldwide selection of modern/historic venues. Countries around the world crawling over themselves to get involved.
Some good points there. Yes I did forget to say the picks were done in reverse order- I mean imagine how great it would be to see Wolves winning the league- it would make a refereshing change from the likes of the Manchester teams always winning it (I would include Arsenal & Liverpool, but lets be honest neither are competing for the title)
As for the degree, the standard of the degree is obviously down to the uni, but the message is “if you don’t make it, you have a plan B”
With regards to men being crippled, I don’t believe it’s a valid argument in this case because the nature of the two sports are very different.
As for the degree, the standard of the degree is obviously down to the uni, but the message is “if you don’t make it, you have a plan B”
With regards to men being crippled, I don’t believe it’s a valid argument in this case because the nature of the two sports are very different.
DarrenL said:
Some good points there. Yes I did forget to say the picks were done in reverse order- I mean imagine how great it would be to see Wolves winning the league- it would make a refereshing change from the likes of the Manchester teams always winning it (I would include Arsenal & Liverpool, but lets be honest neither are competing for the title)
As for the degree, the standard of the degree is obviously down to the uni, but the message is “if you don’t make it, you have a plan B”
With regards to men being crippled, I don’t believe it’s a valid argument in this case because the nature of the two sports are very different.
Well, you may feel that its boring always having the same teams winning all the time but that's not entirely the case. Man Utd have had 20 years of being there or thereabouts its true but in that time we had first 2 (Arsenal) then 4 Chelsea and Liverpool added then 6 with Man City and (To their enormous credit Spurs) coming along.Utd have remained strong because they have the resources of being the biggest and best supported club (Like the NY Yankees)but mainly because they have employed a bit of a genius to manage them. new money has invested in 2 clubs especially and made it an open competition.As for the degree, the standard of the degree is obviously down to the uni, but the message is “if you don’t make it, you have a plan B”
With regards to men being crippled, I don’t believe it’s a valid argument in this case because the nature of the two sports are very different.
If however you are a supporter not of Wolves but of United how would you feel if the next Rooney or Ronaldo was "Forced" to go to Wolves. 4 or 5 years of that and you'd find no matter how good your team was they would be dragged down so that someone else could win. You'd care a little less I suspect as is often the case in the NFL. And when the owners of your club (Say the Glazers) got a great offer from say Bristol to move there instead you'd shrug your shoulders and go and watch Bury ( Or AFC United)
On the comparative sport issue re injuries, you are quite right but you also suggested the College education system trained them to be Go-Ahead winners with a winning mentality. That has also meant playing hurt is expected of them and that abuse of steroids is commonplace.
One aspect of Ass. football is the ability to do well does not depend on drug enhanced performance and a 5'4" man can be the best player in the world.
It would be unworkable unless the whole football league system was scrapped and franchises introduced in the same tiered system that they have in the US.
That would also mean losing promotion and relegation.
Then you have the draft picks. Where are these players drafted from? We don't have a college/university team structure. What about foreign players?
What about foreign teams? eg who would have first pick of the latest African wonderkid? Spanish team, or Italian, Greek?
The US system only works because it functions in a rigidly closed, tiered environment.
That would also mean losing promotion and relegation.
Then you have the draft picks. Where are these players drafted from? We don't have a college/university team structure. What about foreign players?
What about foreign teams? eg who would have first pick of the latest African wonderkid? Spanish team, or Italian, Greek?
The US system only works because it functions in a rigidly closed, tiered environment.
Edited by DocJock on Thursday 16th February 14:42
All valid arguments Doc, but not huge obstacles by any stretch:
Lets take each point in turn:
1- Football league system wouldn’t have to be scrapped, you just need to make sure the uni’s select a minimum number of players to ensure all teams in the top 4 tiers of English football can select players. Promotion and relegation can stay the same, and perhaps as you move up a league you can pick players from the better sporting universities.
2- You would need to look at changing the structure, but this can be effectively sold to universities, who are short on funding, if its financially lucrative for them.
3- RE: Foreign teams/players, again the clubs can pick the best players from their ‘home’ universities (e.g British teams select only players from British universities) however, players may not necessarily be British. As for buying the latest African wonderkid, I’m sure there could be a provision which says you can have X amount of non draft pick players in your squad- this transfer would take place under normal bidding rules. If the kid already goes to university, again I’m sure we could come up with a system which would allow for the Spanish team to buy him- perhaps after a period of one year with a Zambian team???
Don’t get me wrong, I know this wont happen, and I know it would require a HUGE amount of reorganistion across the world, but, lets be honest, FIFA have been talking about revolutionising the game without actually doing it…oh, I forgot, golden goals hahaha.
Lets take each point in turn:
1- Football league system wouldn’t have to be scrapped, you just need to make sure the uni’s select a minimum number of players to ensure all teams in the top 4 tiers of English football can select players. Promotion and relegation can stay the same, and perhaps as you move up a league you can pick players from the better sporting universities.
2- You would need to look at changing the structure, but this can be effectively sold to universities, who are short on funding, if its financially lucrative for them.
3- RE: Foreign teams/players, again the clubs can pick the best players from their ‘home’ universities (e.g British teams select only players from British universities) however, players may not necessarily be British. As for buying the latest African wonderkid, I’m sure there could be a provision which says you can have X amount of non draft pick players in your squad- this transfer would take place under normal bidding rules. If the kid already goes to university, again I’m sure we could come up with a system which would allow for the Spanish team to buy him- perhaps after a period of one year with a Zambian team???
Don’t get me wrong, I know this wont happen, and I know it would require a HUGE amount of reorganistion across the world, but, lets be honest, FIFA have been talking about revolutionising the game without actually doing it…oh, I forgot, golden goals hahaha.
I know your only speculating but what exactly are you putting up as an alternative that is an improvement.
You may feel detached by large salaries in Football but you do realise that american sports stars earn even more. The amount of money top basketball and baseball players get is obscene. If that is the problem then the american model is clearly not the way to go.
There are still huge inequalities in sports like baseball for example where trading between clubs negates the effect of the draft and the same clubs win year on year. The Yankees have more championships than any english football club has titles.
But fundamentally for me the twin ideas of dragging down the best teams/clubs by handicapping them in effect so that the new(expansion) teams can win at their expense, and the widespread contempt for the fanbase and traditions of long established teams by just removing them from their city and transplanting them to the other side of the country(*) without as much as a backwards glance makes the american way of doing things stink.
You may feel detached by large salaries in Football but you do realise that american sports stars earn even more. The amount of money top basketball and baseball players get is obscene. If that is the problem then the american model is clearly not the way to go.
There are still huge inequalities in sports like baseball for example where trading between clubs negates the effect of the draft and the same clubs win year on year. The Yankees have more championships than any english football club has titles.
But fundamentally for me the twin ideas of dragging down the best teams/clubs by handicapping them in effect so that the new(expansion) teams can win at their expense, and the widespread contempt for the fanbase and traditions of long established teams by just removing them from their city and transplanting them to the other side of the country(*) without as much as a backwards glance makes the american way of doing things stink.
- The LA Dodgers and San Francisco Giants baseball teams were long established (50 years +) in Brooklyn and New York respectively before they were in the greater interests of the game (Or owners!) re-located to the west coast 3000 miles away. Imagine that happened to your local team.
DarrenL said:
Mods: Please leave this here as it would be good to get the views of American sports fans who do not venture into the football threads!
So, there has been a lot in the press over the last few years asking if the current premier league model is sustainable. FIFA/UEFA have introduced financial fair play rules which are being laughed at by the likes of Man City. Also, to be honest I have been feeling more ‘detached’ from football over the last few seasons as more and more billionaires invest, On a personal level I simply cant relate to the hundreds of millions of pounds being spent by clubs, or the fact players seem more and more ‘aloof’ to their very rich status (Mr Tevez said he was treated like a dog, well for £200k per week, is it unreasonable to expect him to bark?)
So, sat in the pub last night watching Arsenal get their arse kicked, we started talking about this very situation. It occurred to us that one way for FIFA & UEFA to control the game would be to introduce a Picks system like they have in American Football.
For those of you who don’t know; in American Football, the top players at high school (secondary school here) are awarded scholarships to go to university, who go on to play for the university team (which is a very lucrative market anyway) and are then drafted into the NFL- this means all the teams in the league(s?) pick the top players from those university teams. In essence it’s a feeder system designed to breed winners with years of experience before they even reach “the big leagues”. The players are brought up to believe in dying for their team and if they become injured or are dropped they have a degree to fall back on (with practical work experience to boot) I believe they also have wage caps.
So how does this control the money? Well, initially the majority of your team would come from universities which would lower wages. So you don’t fall foul of any trade restriction laws players are free to move nationally/internationally as well but for this to work you would also need to introduce wage caps universally.
There are also the social-economic aspects to consider- our ‘promising young footballers’ are forced to study if they want to play and become successful- this gives them a focus to stay in school and play the game. It also allows people from poorer background to go to a university they may not necessarily afford without the scholarship.
What do you think? I strongly doubt it would happen, but I actually think it’s a successful model which has worked for a national sport which has proven to help both sports and social problems and could do wonders in the UK and around the globe if FIFA really want to revolutionise the game.
You should point out that college players get eff all, whilst the colleges themselves coin it in. Which is disgusting in itself.So, there has been a lot in the press over the last few years asking if the current premier league model is sustainable. FIFA/UEFA have introduced financial fair play rules which are being laughed at by the likes of Man City. Also, to be honest I have been feeling more ‘detached’ from football over the last few seasons as more and more billionaires invest, On a personal level I simply cant relate to the hundreds of millions of pounds being spent by clubs, or the fact players seem more and more ‘aloof’ to their very rich status (Mr Tevez said he was treated like a dog, well for £200k per week, is it unreasonable to expect him to bark?)
So, sat in the pub last night watching Arsenal get their arse kicked, we started talking about this very situation. It occurred to us that one way for FIFA & UEFA to control the game would be to introduce a Picks system like they have in American Football.
For those of you who don’t know; in American Football, the top players at high school (secondary school here) are awarded scholarships to go to university, who go on to play for the university team (which is a very lucrative market anyway) and are then drafted into the NFL- this means all the teams in the league(s?) pick the top players from those university teams. In essence it’s a feeder system designed to breed winners with years of experience before they even reach “the big leagues”. The players are brought up to believe in dying for their team and if they become injured or are dropped they have a degree to fall back on (with practical work experience to boot) I believe they also have wage caps.
So how does this control the money? Well, initially the majority of your team would come from universities which would lower wages. So you don’t fall foul of any trade restriction laws players are free to move nationally/internationally as well but for this to work you would also need to introduce wage caps universally.
There are also the social-economic aspects to consider- our ‘promising young footballers’ are forced to study if they want to play and become successful- this gives them a focus to stay in school and play the game. It also allows people from poorer background to go to a university they may not necessarily afford without the scholarship.
What do you think? I strongly doubt it would happen, but I actually think it’s a successful model which has worked for a national sport which has proven to help both sports and social problems and could do wonders in the UK and around the globe if FIFA really want to revolutionise the game.
The draft works in the US because it is mainly played by americans. Can you imagine football where british players are forced to play at Uni level whilst their 18 year old peers from S America and Europe are playing first team football in the EPL? Hardly going to strengthen our national side is it?
I would be upset if I had a great talent at a particular sport, especially one with such a short eat-by date as rugby or football, and had my ability to realise it both physically and financially, I'd be a bit miffed.
Have you ever read about the days of the miximum wage? There again rules were brought in to restrict players' ability to earn a decent wage, for the best possible reasons of course. There used to be an old first dvision (now premier)division defender living near me. Despite being world famous during his (quite long) playing career, playing for England fairly regularly, all he could afford was a two bed flat. He ran a pub for 20 odd years. His club, of course, increased its income due to him playing but he got no cut.
In the free(er) market of modern football he'd have been a millionaire by the age of 25. Whilst he might not have had a happier life - not relevant in this argument - he was not allowed to market his talents freely.
The real problem is the money available to the clubs. Such vast sums have in certain ways ruined the sport at the top.
I follow rugby union and F1. Rugby has been spared much of the pressures of masses of income and is all the better for it. This might well change of course, but not while it is a filler sport on Sky. F1 was damaged years ago. It costs so much to run a team that they were not able to fill the grid for years.
I think it is best to leave football, or any sport come to that, to find its own level. If the premiership teams ruin themselves then there is still your local club to attend.
You should not think of the top teams as being the sport of your choice. F1 is great but there are many other formulae to watch which are as exciting. Rugby union at top level is great to watch but there's a level four or three club near where you are where the standard of play is approaching that of the top clubs but you can get a seat in the stands for £10 or less and take your beer with you.
Have you ever read about the days of the miximum wage? There again rules were brought in to restrict players' ability to earn a decent wage, for the best possible reasons of course. There used to be an old first dvision (now premier)division defender living near me. Despite being world famous during his (quite long) playing career, playing for England fairly regularly, all he could afford was a two bed flat. He ran a pub for 20 odd years. His club, of course, increased its income due to him playing but he got no cut.
In the free(er) market of modern football he'd have been a millionaire by the age of 25. Whilst he might not have had a happier life - not relevant in this argument - he was not allowed to market his talents freely.
The real problem is the money available to the clubs. Such vast sums have in certain ways ruined the sport at the top.
I follow rugby union and F1. Rugby has been spared much of the pressures of masses of income and is all the better for it. This might well change of course, but not while it is a filler sport on Sky. F1 was damaged years ago. It costs so much to run a team that they were not able to fill the grid for years.
I think it is best to leave football, or any sport come to that, to find its own level. If the premiership teams ruin themselves then there is still your local club to attend.
You should not think of the top teams as being the sport of your choice. F1 is great but there are many other formulae to watch which are as exciting. Rugby union at top level is great to watch but there's a level four or three club near where you are where the standard of play is approaching that of the top clubs but you can get a seat in the stands for £10 or less and take your beer with you.
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