Rugby Union - Truth Hurts
Discussion
It is largely unknown to players and followers of the modern game of rugby, that in the very early days it started off purely as a contest for forwards in opposition in line-outs, scrums, rucks and mauls.
This pitted eight men of statuesque physique, of supreme fitness and superior intelligence in packs against one another.
In those days, the winner was the pack that had gained most set pieces. The debasement of the game began when backs were introduced. This occurred because a major problem was where to locate the next scrum or line-out. Selecting positions on the ground for these had become a constant source of friction and even violence.
The problem was resolved through a stratagem of employing forward rejects, men of small stature and limited intelligence, to select positions on the field from where, when in receipt of the ball they could be guaranteed to drop it in a random pattern but usually, as far from the last set piece as possible. Initially these additional players were entirely unorganized but with the passing of time they adopted positions.
For instance, the half-back (also known as the scrum-half). He was usually the smallest and least intelligent of the backs whose role was simply to accept the ball and pass it on. He could easily (given his general size) have been called a quarter forward or a ball monkey but then tolerance and compassion are the keys to forward play and the present inoffensive description was decided upon.
The fly-half plays next to the half-back and his role is essentially the same except that, when pressured he usually panics and kicks the ball. Normally, he is somewhat taller and slightly better built than the scrum-half and hence his name. One-eighth less and he would have been a half-back, three-eighths more and he might well have qualified to become a forward.
The centres were opportunists who had no specific role to play but who were attracted to the game by the glamour associated with forward packs. After repeated supplication to the forwards for a role in the game they would be told to get out in the middle and wait for the ball. Thus, when asked where they played, they would reply "in the centre". And they remain to this day, opportunists and scroungers, men so accustomed to making excuses for bad hands and errant play that most become lawyers or real estate agents.
You may ask, why wingers? The answer is simple. Originally these were players who had very little ability and were the lowest in the backline pecking order. They were placed far from the ball and given the generally poor handling by the inside backs, were rarely given the opportunity to even touch the ball. This is basically why, through a process of natural selection, they became very fast runners and developed the ability to evade tackles.
But to get back to the name. The fact that they got so little ball led to the incessant flow of complaints from them and the eventual apt description "whingers". Naturally, in the modern game, the name has been adapted to become more acceptable.
Lastly, the full-back. This was the position given to the worst handler, the person least able to accept or pass the ball, someone who was always in the way.. the name arose because, infuriated by the poor play invariably demonstrated by that person, the call would come "send that fool back" and he would be relegated to the rear of the field.
So there you have it. The fact is that if a side does not have eight men of statuesque physique, of supreme fitness and superior intelligence then they might as well play soccer."
Amen Brothers
This pitted eight men of statuesque physique, of supreme fitness and superior intelligence in packs against one another.
In those days, the winner was the pack that had gained most set pieces. The debasement of the game began when backs were introduced. This occurred because a major problem was where to locate the next scrum or line-out. Selecting positions on the ground for these had become a constant source of friction and even violence.
The problem was resolved through a stratagem of employing forward rejects, men of small stature and limited intelligence, to select positions on the field from where, when in receipt of the ball they could be guaranteed to drop it in a random pattern but usually, as far from the last set piece as possible. Initially these additional players were entirely unorganized but with the passing of time they adopted positions.
For instance, the half-back (also known as the scrum-half). He was usually the smallest and least intelligent of the backs whose role was simply to accept the ball and pass it on. He could easily (given his general size) have been called a quarter forward or a ball monkey but then tolerance and compassion are the keys to forward play and the present inoffensive description was decided upon.
The fly-half plays next to the half-back and his role is essentially the same except that, when pressured he usually panics and kicks the ball. Normally, he is somewhat taller and slightly better built than the scrum-half and hence his name. One-eighth less and he would have been a half-back, three-eighths more and he might well have qualified to become a forward.
The centres were opportunists who had no specific role to play but who were attracted to the game by the glamour associated with forward packs. After repeated supplication to the forwards for a role in the game they would be told to get out in the middle and wait for the ball. Thus, when asked where they played, they would reply "in the centre". And they remain to this day, opportunists and scroungers, men so accustomed to making excuses for bad hands and errant play that most become lawyers or real estate agents.
You may ask, why wingers? The answer is simple. Originally these were players who had very little ability and were the lowest in the backline pecking order. They were placed far from the ball and given the generally poor handling by the inside backs, were rarely given the opportunity to even touch the ball. This is basically why, through a process of natural selection, they became very fast runners and developed the ability to evade tackles.
But to get back to the name. The fact that they got so little ball led to the incessant flow of complaints from them and the eventual apt description "whingers". Naturally, in the modern game, the name has been adapted to become more acceptable.
Lastly, the full-back. This was the position given to the worst handler, the person least able to accept or pass the ball, someone who was always in the way.. the name arose because, infuriated by the poor play invariably demonstrated by that person, the call would come "send that fool back" and he would be relegated to the rear of the field.
So there you have it. The fact is that if a side does not have eight men of statuesque physique, of supreme fitness and superior intelligence then they might as well play soccer."
Amen Brothers
Not a big fan of moving then, I take it.
The true story of Web-Ellis is that during a game very much like football he picked up the ball, ran with it and then the other side beat the sh*t out of him. Then Web-Ellis’ team mates got stuck into the melee. And so was born the game of rugby union.
Public schools thought that this was character building and, to an extent, took most of their functions. Once they invented showers, they had nothing left to do.
Pitches then were merely 20 feet long but even so there were vast areas that were never covered. The ball is the shape it is because the round one they used first of all used to roll away so they needed someone to go an get it. Hence the number 15.
Later it was found that the they needed a go between because when the ball was thrown at the pack it sometimes hit them. The packs, both sides, would then attack the #15 so they invented the fly half.
Still the pack would attack their own players so they thought it would be a good idea to even things out a bit. So they allowed a number of backs. However, it was felt unfair to have the same number as backs could move, something forwards felt was beneath them. Also all the ugly brutes had been used for the pack, leaving just the good looking blokes and those able to do the laces up on their boots.
It was decided that rather than have this new group standing around doing nothing they could enlarge the pitch to its current size so as they kept warm. They didn’t tell the pack, no need to, so leaving the backs could wander around, having little races amongst themselves.
The real change came with the invention of scoring. This was revolutionary and ensured that the backs had something to do. No one told the pack of course. And that’s where we are now. The back’s job is to score, the forwards are there to give them something to run around.
The true story of Web-Ellis is that during a game very much like football he picked up the ball, ran with it and then the other side beat the sh*t out of him. Then Web-Ellis’ team mates got stuck into the melee. And so was born the game of rugby union.
Public schools thought that this was character building and, to an extent, took most of their functions. Once they invented showers, they had nothing left to do.
Pitches then were merely 20 feet long but even so there were vast areas that were never covered. The ball is the shape it is because the round one they used first of all used to roll away so they needed someone to go an get it. Hence the number 15.
Later it was found that the they needed a go between because when the ball was thrown at the pack it sometimes hit them. The packs, both sides, would then attack the #15 so they invented the fly half.
Still the pack would attack their own players so they thought it would be a good idea to even things out a bit. So they allowed a number of backs. However, it was felt unfair to have the same number as backs could move, something forwards felt was beneath them. Also all the ugly brutes had been used for the pack, leaving just the good looking blokes and those able to do the laces up on their boots.
It was decided that rather than have this new group standing around doing nothing they could enlarge the pitch to its current size so as they kept warm. They didn’t tell the pack, no need to, so leaving the backs could wander around, having little races amongst themselves.
The real change came with the invention of scoring. This was revolutionary and ensured that the backs had something to do. No one told the pack of course. And that’s where we are now. The back’s job is to score, the forwards are there to give them something to run around.
FUBAR said:
It is largely unknown to players and followers of the modern game of rugby, that in the very early days it started off purely as a contest for forwards in opposition in line-outs, scrums, rucks and mauls.
This pitted eight men of statuesque physique, of supreme fitness and superior intelligence in packs against one another.
In those days, the winner was the pack that had gained most set pieces. The debasement of the game began when backs were introduced. This occurred because a major problem was where to locate the next scrum or line-out. Selecting positions on the ground for these had become a constant source of friction and even violence.
The problem was resolved through a stratagem of employing forward rejects, men of small stature and limited intelligence, to select positions on the field from where, when in receipt of the ball they could be guaranteed to drop it in a random pattern but usually, as far from the last set piece as possible. Initially these additional players were entirely unorganized but with the passing of time they adopted positions.
For instance, the half-back (also known as the scrum-half). He was usually the smallest and least intelligent of the backs whose role was simply to accept the ball and pass it on. He could easily (given his general size) have been called a quarter forward or a ball monkey but then tolerance and compassion are the keys to forward play and the present inoffensive description was decided upon.
The fly-half plays next to the half-back and his role is essentially the same except that, when pressured he usually panics and kicks the ball. Normally, he is somewhat taller and slightly better built than the scrum-half and hence his name. One-eighth less and he would have been a half-back, three-eighths more and he might well have qualified to become a forward.
The centres were opportunists who had no specific role to play but who were attracted to the game by the glamour associated with forward packs. After repeated supplication to the forwards for a role in the game they would be told to get out in the middle and wait for the ball. Thus, when asked where they played, they would reply "in the centre". And they remain to this day, opportunists and scroungers, men so accustomed to making excuses for bad hands and errant play that most become lawyers or real estate agents.
You may ask, why wingers? The answer is simple. Originally these were players who had very little ability and were the lowest in the backline pecking order. They were placed far from the ball and given the generally poor handling by the inside backs, were rarely given the opportunity to even touch the ball. This is basically why, through a process of natural selection, they became very fast runners and developed the ability to evade tackles.
But to get back to the name. The fact that they got so little ball led to the incessant flow of complaints from them and the eventual apt description "whingers". Naturally, in the modern game, the name has been adapted to become more acceptable.
Lastly, the full-back. This was the position given to the worst handler, the person least able to accept or pass the ball, someone who was always in the way.. the name arose because, infuriated by the poor play invariably demonstrated by that person, the call would come "send that fool back" and he would be relegated to the rear of the field.
So there you have it. The fact is that if a side does not have eight men of statuesque physique, of supreme fitness and superior intelligence then they might as well play soccer."
Amen Brothers
Amen brother!This pitted eight men of statuesque physique, of supreme fitness and superior intelligence in packs against one another.
In those days, the winner was the pack that had gained most set pieces. The debasement of the game began when backs were introduced. This occurred because a major problem was where to locate the next scrum or line-out. Selecting positions on the ground for these had become a constant source of friction and even violence.
The problem was resolved through a stratagem of employing forward rejects, men of small stature and limited intelligence, to select positions on the field from where, when in receipt of the ball they could be guaranteed to drop it in a random pattern but usually, as far from the last set piece as possible. Initially these additional players were entirely unorganized but with the passing of time they adopted positions.
For instance, the half-back (also known as the scrum-half). He was usually the smallest and least intelligent of the backs whose role was simply to accept the ball and pass it on. He could easily (given his general size) have been called a quarter forward or a ball monkey but then tolerance and compassion are the keys to forward play and the present inoffensive description was decided upon.
The fly-half plays next to the half-back and his role is essentially the same except that, when pressured he usually panics and kicks the ball. Normally, he is somewhat taller and slightly better built than the scrum-half and hence his name. One-eighth less and he would have been a half-back, three-eighths more and he might well have qualified to become a forward.
The centres were opportunists who had no specific role to play but who were attracted to the game by the glamour associated with forward packs. After repeated supplication to the forwards for a role in the game they would be told to get out in the middle and wait for the ball. Thus, when asked where they played, they would reply "in the centre". And they remain to this day, opportunists and scroungers, men so accustomed to making excuses for bad hands and errant play that most become lawyers or real estate agents.
You may ask, why wingers? The answer is simple. Originally these were players who had very little ability and were the lowest in the backline pecking order. They were placed far from the ball and given the generally poor handling by the inside backs, were rarely given the opportunity to even touch the ball. This is basically why, through a process of natural selection, they became very fast runners and developed the ability to evade tackles.
But to get back to the name. The fact that they got so little ball led to the incessant flow of complaints from them and the eventual apt description "whingers". Naturally, in the modern game, the name has been adapted to become more acceptable.
Lastly, the full-back. This was the position given to the worst handler, the person least able to accept or pass the ball, someone who was always in the way.. the name arose because, infuriated by the poor play invariably demonstrated by that person, the call would come "send that fool back" and he would be relegated to the rear of the field.
So there you have it. The fact is that if a side does not have eight men of statuesque physique, of supreme fitness and superior intelligence then they might as well play soccer."
Amen Brothers
The presence or not of a ball is fairly inconsequential to most props.
Along with the score.
Its only the backs that worry about these things.
If you get the age of fifty and can dress yourself without wincing, you haven't really played in the front row enough. ( pants and socks are my bugbear)
Along with the score.
Its only the backs that worry about these things.
If you get the age of fifty and can dress yourself without wincing, you haven't really played in the front row enough. ( pants and socks are my bugbear)
ExChrispy Porker said:
The presence or not of a ball is fairly inconsequential to most props.
Along with the score.
Its only the backs that worry about these things.
If you get the age of fifty and can dress yourself without wincing, you haven't really played in the front row enough. ( pants and socks are my bugbear)
Is there any prop who can dress himself without another telling him how to do it? The only reason they wince when 50 or more is that they are trying to get their brain in gear. "Er, left over right . . . Which one is left?'Along with the score.
Its only the backs that worry about these things.
If you get the age of fifty and can dress yourself without wincing, you haven't really played in the front row enough. ( pants and socks are my bugbear)
Sometimes you get a clever clogs insinuating himself where he really shouldn't though.
I played in a tour game in Wales. My opposing prop went down hurt in a collapsed scrum. I offered my 'condolences' ( as you do), and expressed the opinion that he needed the local doctor.
'I am the f
king doctor' he said.
I played in a tour game in Wales. My opposing prop went down hurt in a collapsed scrum. I offered my 'condolences' ( as you do), and expressed the opinion that he needed the local doctor.
'I am the f
king doctor' he said.Killing myself boys 
Socks and shoes and hiking bootd are my bugbears. Im 35, Im in agony from my lower back. Regular contributers round here know where I played. My wife is an osteopath. A very good one. Her advice to me? "Dont whinge too much, you make me look bad and shut up, you have another 40 yrs of this!"
Socks and shoes and hiking bootd are my bugbears. Im 35, Im in agony from my lower back. Regular contributers round here know where I played. My wife is an osteopath. A very good one. Her advice to me? "Dont whinge too much, you make me look bad and shut up, you have another 40 yrs of this!"
I am both in fits of laughter and offended.
There is no smiley for this so I'll just choose one at random:
And I give you Jason Eaton (#4 forward) v. Brent Ward (#15 back):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IofKMkrkMDw
The truth may hurt, but a finger up the butt is just akward
There is no smiley for this so I'll just choose one at random:
And I give you Jason Eaton (#4 forward) v. Brent Ward (#15 back):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IofKMkrkMDw
The truth may hurt, but a finger up the butt is just akward
Edited by kieranjholland on Saturday 11th February 22:22
DJRC said:
Killing myself boys
Socks and shoes and hiking bootd are my bugbears. Im 35, Im in agony from my lower back. Regular contributers round here know where I played. My wife is an osteopath. A very good one. Her advice to me? "Dont whinge too much, you make me look bad and shut up, you have another 40 yrs of this!"
Oh I'll be in nappies and sandels by then.Socks and shoes and hiking bootd are my bugbears. Im 35, Im in agony from my lower back. Regular contributers round here know where I played. My wife is an osteopath. A very good one. Her advice to me? "Dont whinge too much, you make me look bad and shut up, you have another 40 yrs of this!"
Or a coffin.
FUBAR said:
Derek, I have a t-shirt, that I wear proudly, which states something along the lines of;
"In 1826 William Webb-Ellis picked up a ball and ran.....
....prop forwards are still asking why?"
Which should tell you all you need to know about me and my rugby
That would be based on a quote from Sir Tasker Watkins (Ex WRU President)"In 1826 William Webb-Ellis picked up a ball and ran.....
....prop forwards are still asking why?"
Which should tell you all you need to know about me and my rugby
"In 1823, William Webb Ellis first picked up the in his arms and ran with it. And for the next 156 years forwards have ben trying to work out why."
BB
BigBob said:
FUBAR said:
Derek, I have a t-shirt, that I wear proudly, which states something along the lines of;
"In 1826 William Webb-Ellis picked up a ball and ran.....
....prop forwards are still asking why?"
Which should tell you all you need to know about me and my rugby
That would be based on a quote from Sir Tasker Watkins (Ex WRU President)"In 1826 William Webb-Ellis picked up a ball and ran.....
....prop forwards are still asking why?"
Which should tell you all you need to know about me and my rugby
"In 1823, William Webb Ellis first picked up the in his arms and ran with it. And for the next 156 years forwards have ben trying to work out why."
BB
Derek Smith said:
Forwards spending a long time trying to work out any 'why' doesn't come as a surprise to me. The reason shorts had drawstrings was because buttons were too confusing for them.
When I started out playing rugby Props, or any of the front 5 for that matter, weren't expected to think.You were there to put your head down, arse up and shove
The only two 'skills' you needed was to watch the referee's heels (if you could see them through the 'tunnel', you knew he wasn't watching your nefarious activities in the scrum) and, should the ball accidently end up in your hands, to turn around and form a maul.
Good hands on a prop didn't mean the ability to give and take a pass - more likely to be able to sneak in a good right hook or stop the ball being ripped from you
BB
BigBob said:
When I started out playing rugby Props, or any of the front 5 for that matter, weren't expected to think.
You were there to put your head down, arse up and shove
The only two 'skills' you needed was to watch the referee's heels (if you could see them through the 'tunnel', you knew he wasn't watching your nefarious activities in the scrum) and, should the ball accidently end up in your hands, to turn around and form a maul.
Good hands on a prop didn't mean the ability to give and take a pass - more likely to be able to sneak in a good right hook or stop the ball being ripped from you
BB
The change is remarkable. I have a video of a match the team I support played where the backs were running, then passed to a prop who was tackled and layed it off - honestly - to another back who, after a short run passed it to the hooker who scored the try. Not only that, but the backs are expected to tackle the forwards. Never heard of in my day, not that they'd be running with the ball of course. Or running.You were there to put your head down, arse up and shove
The only two 'skills' you needed was to watch the referee's heels (if you could see them through the 'tunnel', you knew he wasn't watching your nefarious activities in the scrum) and, should the ball accidently end up in your hands, to turn around and form a maul.
Good hands on a prop didn't mean the ability to give and take a pass - more likely to be able to sneak in a good right hook or stop the ball being ripped from you
BB
At 6'3" I was considered tall. As I was no good at binding I was first of all put as a flanker but then they found out I had speed, although not much by way of acceleration. So I was pushed into the backs. I had to learn how to catch the ball. No one had ever passed it to me before. Not that they did when I was a back come to that. Whilst I prefered the new position, I don't think I've ever been so cold. If I had a run each half it was a good match.
It is an entirely different sport nowadays and when I'm asked what position I played I sometimes reply that they don't have it now.
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