Australia appoint Saffer as national cricket coach..

[johnfm]

That's it.

I've always derided the English for having a team full of foreigners and foreign coaches, managers etc

National sport should be just that: Country A v Country B. Leave all the foreign players and coaches for club sport.

Australia appoint a South African coach.

fking pathetic and disgraceful.

That's my interest in the Ashes dead and buried.

s.

[Victor McDade]

So you've never supported the national football team because of their history with foreign coaches? What about the Wallabies ?

Are Aussie olympic athletes allowed overseas coaches in your book?

Its rather convenient that you're giving up on Aussie cricket during a time where they're slipping into a period of mid ranking mediocrity. One wonders if you would have taken the same decision had Arthur been appointed when the Australian cricket team were still dominating all other cricketing nations.

Edited by Victor McDade on Tuesday 22 November 19:45

[johnfm]

Victor McDade said:

So you've never supported the national football team because of their history with foreign coaches? What about the Wallabies ?

Are Aussie olympic athletes allowed overseas coaches in your book?

Its rather convenient that you're giving up on Aussie cricket during a time where they're slipping into a period of mid ranking mediocrity. One wonders if you would have taken the same decision had Arthur been appointed when the Australian cricket team were still dominating all other cricketing nations. for over a decade

Edited by Victor McDade on Tuesday 22 November 19:45

The end of Australian cricket dominance has nothing to do with my definition of a 'national' team.

As I have said once or twice, a national team should be just that. As far as I am concerned, the Australian cricket team will no longer be an 'Australian' cricket team if they are coached by someone who did not grow up in the Australian cricket system.

It would be a bit odd if I lambasted 'England' for being a World XI, but happily supported a foreign coached 'Australian' team.

Re: wallabies, or foreign tennis players playing under the 'Australia' banner - I don't support them.

[hornetrider]

johnfm said:

That's my interest in the Ashes dead and buried.

How convenient!

[Cheib]

johnfm said:

The end of Australian cricket dominance has nothing to do with my definition of a 'national' team.

As I have said once or twice, a national team should be just that. As far as I am concerned, the Australian cricket team will no longer be an 'Australian' cricket team if they are coached by someone who did not grow up in the Australian cricket system.

It would be a bit odd if I lambasted 'England' for being a World XI, but happily supported a foreign coached 'Australian' team.

Re: wallabies, or foreign tennis players playing under the 'Australia' banner - I don't support them.

But you supported an Aussie cricket team with Kepler Wessels playing in it ?

Or did you stop supporting them for those 24 tests and 54 ODI's ?

[Victor McDade]

John, do you think Usman Khawaja should be allowed to play for the national cricket team?

[johnfm]

yes.

As I have written a number of times, where someone is brought up and learns their game is the marker of whether or not they are 'Australian' or "English'.

IIRC, Usman, Symonds etc schooled, brought up, coached, played representative cricket all in Australia. Even Dirk Nannes (who left the Australian setup because he couldn't get a game) was born and brought up there.


They are products of an Australian upbringing and the Australian cricket system.


I apply a similar logic to the foreign born Englanders who are clearly 'English', like Strauss and Matt Prior for example.

I don't think this applies to Trott, Pietersen, Lumb, Kieswetter etc or to the coaches like Arthur or Flower.

I suppose the litmus test is the interview. Usman has an aussie accent. Prior and Strauss an English accent.

Pietersen? Trott? Flower? Arthur?

Re; Keppler W, I don;t really think players who played for England or Australia in the period where SA where banned from playing fit the criteria - hence I don;t really mention Tony Greig, Lamb, Robin Smith, Graeme Hick etc.

re: how convenient

I think you boys need to remember you have been top of the rankings for about 10 minutes.

If you are still there in 10 years, maybe then I'll give some credence to your hubris.

There you have it.

[Victor McDade]

Fair enough.

I actually agree with you regarding players like Trott, KP, Dernbach, Keiswetter etc. They should not have been allowed to represent England imo.

But I think you're taking it a bit far when it comes to foreign coaches.

Kirsten at India, Moody at Sri Lanka, The late Woolmer at Pakistan etc all did the game good in my book.

[Cheib]

It's a view that is stuck in the 1950's.....and if you read some of the OP's posts in the thread that covered the Ashes over the winter you'll realise one he appears disturbingly fanatical about.....

It is not one that belongs in a modern multi cultural society.

[anonymous-user]

johnfm said:

National sport should be just that: Country A v Country B. Leave all the foreign players and coaches for club sport.

There are very few examples of national sport that doesn't have some foreign involvement. Let's hope you don't give up on Aussie cricket threads because there was only three of you in the first place.

[ExChrispy Porker]

Cheib said:

It's a view that is stuck in the 1950's.....and if you read some of the OP's posts in the thread that covered the Ashes over the winter you'll realise one he appears disturbingly fanatical about.....

It is not one that belongs in a modern multi cultural society.

It is an ironic view, bearing in mind how Australia was crying out for immigrants until comparatively recently...

[johnfm]

Cheib said:

It's a view that is stuck in the 1950's.....and if you read some of the OP's posts in the thread that covered the Ashes over the winter you'll realise one he appears disturbingly fanatical about.....

It is not one that belongs in a modern multi cultural society.

It would be a 1950's view if I was applying it to, say Leeds United or Chelsea only being permitted to pick players brought up in Leeds or Chelsea.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect a national sports team to consist of playing a senior coaching staff brought up in that country.

If not, you will just get a grander version of 'champions league' type teams.


You are perfectly entitled to support whoever you like.

I CHOOSE to be dismayed by an Australian team coached by a non - Australian. To me it is against the spirit of international sport.

I would rather we lose like we did in the 1980s while building a side and we did in the last series - but lose with an Australian side.

Anyway, I think my position is pretty clear and consistent.

[Gargamel]

Victor McDade said:

Fair enough.

I actually agree with you regarding players like Trott, KP, Dernbach, Keiswetter etc. They should not have been allowed to represent England imo.

But I think you're taking it a bit far when it comes to foreign coaches.

Kirsten at India, Moody at Sri Lanka, The late Woolmer at Pakistan etc all did the game good in my book.

Hold on - Dernbach moved over here when he was fourteen, what was he supposed to do ?

[Cheib]

johnfm said:

Cheib said:

It's a view that is stuck in the 1950's.....and if you read some of the OP's posts in the thread that covered the Ashes over the winter you'll realise one he appears disturbingly fanatical about.....

It is not one that belongs in a modern multi cultural society.

It would be a 1950's view if I was applying it to, say Leeds United or Chelsea only being permitted to pick players brought up in Leeds or Chelsea.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect a national sports team to consist of playing a senior coaching staff brought up in that country.

If not, you will just get a grander version of 'champions league' type teams.

To my knowledge Leeds and Chelsea have never restricted their playing staff to people born there.....but yes it's a great comparison.

It's a 1950's view because we live in a society where people now quite simply travel so much more and barriers to travel are so much lower. The world has changed immeasurably. People go on holiday somewhere, like it and make their lives there. Is it better they are welcomed 100% into society or we have some retarded xenophobic view that says....hang on you weren't born here....you can't integrate yourself 100%. That's what you're saying.....it simply doesn't bear scrutiny in modern society.
Stop and think why so many South Africans leave and choose not to make their lives there....many of them want to stay but don't feel they can because they fear for the future of their country.

Should the England cricket team reflect the demographic of this country ? Absolutely. Does the Australian cricket team represent Australia? Perhaps you'd better ask the long line of Aboriginals to have worn the baggy green.

Perhaps you should also read up on the stand Andy Flower took against Mugabe....he quite clearly cares very much for the country but frankly it's somewhat unlikely he'll ever get to coach Zimbabwe whilst Mugabe is still in power. Should that mean that a guy that is possibly the best coach in the world at the moment doesn't get to coach at the highest level ?