Swimming anyone?

[Otispunkmeyer]

World champs have just finished in shanghai

What a meet!

Plenty of geat swimmers missing out on finals who shouldnt have. Phelps and Lochte handing people their asses on the turns. Becky Addlington swimming a perfect 800m race to take gold in the last 25. Ryan Lochte took the WR in the 200IM and it took racing Phelps the whole way to do it. Our own Liam Tancock windmilled his arms fast enough to win the 50m back again!!....

Lots of good racing really, thankfully the focus now that those stupid suits have been banned and WR's were going everytime someone got in the pool.


Saddly the for the UK it was only the usual heavy hitters of Tancock and Addlington who brought home some bacon, the rest of the squad seemed to be a bit under par at times. I hope they can turn it round for 2012.

But for me the two best things about these championships were:

1) Ryan Lochte's turns... This man is a masterclass in how to turn and dolphin kick from a wall, every single turn he was going 13-14m (limit 15m) and taking chunks out of the opposition (bar Phelps, the only other guy who can do that)

2) Sun Yang breaking Grant Hackett's 1500m WR that has stood for 10 years. That is significant, Hackett's time was so good it was the only time to survive the shiny rubber swim suit era. Hackett finished that swim with a 56 sec final hundred. Sun, by the 1400m mark was winning by a country mile, but he was over 2 seconds off the WR. It looked like he wouldnt make it. Then he pulls out a 54.2 last 100 and takes the WR. It was actually unbelievable.

54.2 is faster than the mens 100 freestyle WR from the 60's, its very close to what won the Womens 100 freestyle. To put it into further context a good decent swimmer in this country, needs to crack 5/54 for the 100 freestyle to make the national championships and this guys doing that time for the last 2 lengths (of 30 in a 50m pool) of a 1500m!!! bloody insane.

[DJRC]

Followed the meet on and off via the Beeb. It did seem a mix of a meet for us, but I gather a few of the girls were under the weather.

Arent you forgetting the open water swim aswell?

[Otispunkmeyer]

Did they show that? I missed it.

Keri-anne Payne is bloody awesome though, I have high hopes for a gold for her at the Olympics. She's getting married to David Carry as well, hope that doesn't distract too much.

I don't understand the tummy bug thing alot of the girls moaned about, I mean surely after Deli they'd of learned to be careful. I hope they werent just using that as an exuse. To be fair their is a lot of pressure on them, people dont seem to realise you can have a bad day no matter who you are.

They say it was somewhat a mixed meet for us, but looking back at 2009 World Champs we have moved forwards I would say. Its just that the rest of the world sometimes seems to move forward at a faster rate. I have no idea what the chinese are feeding their swimmers...They've had quite the rise in the sport and its good to see.

2012 is going to be interesting, lot of work to do. Liam especially needs to nail the 100m backstroke. The raw speed is there, his 50m WR and double WC gold prove that, but its not an olympic event.

Interesting to see Phelps is going to retire after London 2012. Personally I think that games is going to be Lochte's but then Phelps has pretty much won everything, there is nothing left for him to do.

[DJRC]

Yes Lochte seems to be running on a morale and ambition high at the moment. Phelps has stated that his motivation hasnt been as high over this Olympic cycle than it was run before the Chinese Games, the only thing holding appeal for him was the suit ban and seeing if he could reach his suit performance peaks as a natural as it were.

The British girls seem to have a habit of the tummy bug thing. Not sure why. Overall though the girls have an superb squad, they should put a few medals together at the Games. They have improved massively over the last 5 years. The blokes squad still looks mediocre, only a few genuine prospects.

[Highway Star]

GB squad seem to be improving in terms of strength in depth - more finals and semi-finals than two years ago, but you are right that only a few shone through to take medals.

Adlington swam well, no doubt, but I wonder what the result would've been if Lotte Friis hadn't also swam a heat and final of the 1500, which Becky didn't.

Tancock's 50 backstroke was proof of what a good start gives - 0.12 ahead of Lacourt off the wall, 0.07 ahead at the finish. I can't see him beating Lacourt on the 100 in 2012 though.

I thought Ellen Gandy did really well - only 0.04 off gold and beat the Olympic champion in her own pool.

In terms of the food, it was only a couple of female swimmers who got ill. Adlington didn't for example. Perhaps those who did need to look at what they are eating and be a bit more careful. No excuses like that for London though. Also, many of those who maybe didn't perform so well had qualified at the second qualification meet, only a few weeks pre-Shanghai. This would force them to 'double-dip' taper, which was one reason why the Germans also underperformed. I think this shows that the 2012 qualification should be one meet in March or earlier.

Of those who didn't get a medal this time, Simmonds could get something in the 200 back next year, Halsall is likely to get one medal in either the 50 or 100 free and I think one of the two lads in the 200 breaststroke could do something; it is quite an open event and Gyurta, the winner in Shanghai, is notoriously unpredictable.

James Goddard is not getting any younger and I think Gemma Spofforth has 'gone in the head', she looks mentally shot.

Sadly we aren't getting any closer in the relays either - I don't think we have a bona fide medal chance in any. Our search for a world class female breaststroker has never been more urgent.

The Chinese had a great meet - Sun Yang's 54.2 last 100 in the 1500 is even more impressive when you consider the last 50 was 25.9! That is insane. He will surely be the first sub-14.30 1500 swimmer. The Yanks were good too, especially Missy Franklin. If she expands her programme in 2012, a lot of our gold medal hopes will be in jeopardy. Aussies too, James Magnussen looks awesome in the 100 and if he steps up to the 200, then the 2012 final with him, Phelps, Lochte, Sun, Park, Biedermann and possibly Thorpe could possibly be the highest class swimming race of all time.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Meissy Franklin is a freak. 16 and 6ft 1in? shes a right monster.

Definite olympic medals for her next year.

Gemma Spofforth has had a hard year, I'm not sure about her. I hope she can keep it together, she is a great backstroker. Lizzie and Halsall will definitely come through I think.

You're right about the womens breast strokers... I dont see anyone on the horizon. They had Kate Heywood there in shanghai but she failed to make even the semi's I think and she's pretty much one of the best we got.

IM is well catered for I think with Hannah Miley... and if not her a girl I used to swim with, 18 year old, went 4.38 at the British Youth Nationals last week. That would of got her 8th in the final in Shanghai.

Boys is a little worse... Though there seem to be a lot of fresh faces about so maybe they will get into the swing of things.

Its obscene how fast these guys can swim. Im sure to non-swimmers watching this its all very impressive, but when you swim yourself (and I was on one of the Loughborough Uni teams) and then you see that and you know how hard you've worked... it just seems unreal, like they arent human.

[Highway Star]

Otispunkmeyer said:

You're right about the womens breast strokers... I dont see anyone on the horizon. They had Kate Heywood there in shanghai but she failed to make even the semi's I think and she's pretty much one of the best we got.

IM is well catered for I think with Hannah Miley... and if not her a girl I used to swim with, 18 year old, went 4.38 at the British Youth Nationals last week. That would of got her 8th in the final in Shanghai.

Its obscene how fast these guys can swim. Im sure to non-swimmers watching this its all very impressive, but when you swim yourself (and I was on one of the Loughborough Uni teams) and then you see that and you know how hard you've worked... it just seems unreal, like they arent human.

Breaststrokers: there was a lot of talk about Achieng Ajulu-Bushell, but since her coach left Plymouth (and joined my club strangely enough) and she moved to Ealing, she seems to have faded away. I heard a rumour she is going to join my club to hook up with her old coach. I think it's too late for 2012 for her now, but she is still only young. The fastest breaststroker in Britain is that other young lass down at Plymouth, but she is Lithuanian.

Is the girl medley swimmer you talk about Aimee Willmott? Didn't she get DQ'd in the World Champs trials? Definitely in with a shout next year though.

You aren't wrong about how fast these really top guys swim. I'm a Masters swimmer in my mid-30s, but decent enough for my age at middle/distance freestyle and backstroke and win the odd medal at Masters Nationals. Recently we've had two guys turn up at our Masters squad sessions. One is an American lad over here at summer school. He swims NCAA and goes 2 mins for 200 IM. The other is a current GB international who only does the odd session with us as his mate trains with us. He probably could've been in Shanghai in the relay, but his goggles fell off in the trials , but has done Europeans for GB in the last couple of years. Just the power they create and the ease they move through the water is brilliant and especially their turns are awesome. It's almost like they are another species, especially when I'm there putting myself through a world of pain to try and keep up at the back of the lane and they aren't even trying at the front.

[DJRC]

Its their turn technique that gets me.

They tuck, turn, spring and glide quicker than me at full stroke!

[Highway Star]

For me, its not the speed around the wall or the push, I'm often as fast as them, it's the dolphin kick underwater. My hips aren't the most flexible, but some of their underwater work is insane.

Lochte does under 23 seconds for 50m underwater dolphin kick. That is just ridiculous. I also read that Alex Popov could do 26 seconds for 50m freestyle kick with a kickboard!

[Otispunkmeyer]

Highway Star said:

Breaststrokers: there was a lot of talk about Achieng Ajulu-Bushell, but since her coach left Plymouth (and joined my club strangely enough) and she moved to Ealing, she seems to have faded away. I heard a rumour she is going to join my club to hook up with her old coach. I think it's too late for 2012 for her now, but she is still only young. The fastest breaststroker in Britain is that other young lass down at Plymouth, but she is Lithuanian.

Is the girl medley swimmer you talk about Aimee Willmott? Didn't she get DQ'd in the World Champs trials? Definitely in with a shout next year though.

You aren't wrong about how fast these really top guys swim. I'm a Masters swimmer in my mid-30s, but decent enough for my age at middle/distance freestyle and backstroke and win the odd medal at Masters Nationals. Recently we've had two guys turn up at our Masters squad sessions. One is an American lad over here at summer school. He swims NCAA and goes 2 mins for 200 IM. The other is a current GB international who only does the odd session with us as his mate trains with us. He probably could've been in Shanghai in the relay, but his goggles fell off in the trials , but has done Europeans for GB in the last couple of years. Just the power they create and the ease they move through the water is brilliant and especially their turns are awesome. It's almost like they are another species, especially when I'm there putting myself through a world of pain to try and keep up at the back of the lane and they aren't even trying at the front.

Yes Ms Willmott... I know her alrightish. I remember when I went back to my old club M'boro and did a few morning sessions. She whopped my ass in training haha and she was still in secondary school then! Her dad (supposedly, not checked) used to be a 1500 swimmer and has swum for england so he is very passionate about having his two girls follow in his footsteps. Shes a lovely girl Aimee, works very hard, though from some of her FB posts you sometimes get the impression heavy training is starting to grate. But then it would for a teenager when all your friends are doing other cool things. I was shocked when I watched the Salford swim the other month to see her lining up in the womens elite race! wasnt that far behind the winner (patten or payne, cant remember)

Unfortunately the temptations of doing other cool things with mates was too much for some of the guys I swam with. They get to that age, 17/18 where they really need to be moving on from the one size fits all age group training and onto focusing on specific strokes and distances. Some of them just quit in that transition because they reach a state where they arent improving and are getting a bit bored.

Wonder how many good swimmers and sports people in general we lose because of situations like that.

Funny you should mention the Americans. We have an oldish lady swim in our masters group and shes American. She doesnt come all that often but when she does I have to say in freestyle sets over 100m she definately keeps everyone honest and shes a demon with a set of paddles. She must of been epic in her day.

I mean I can do 24 for a 50 free (short) and used to be able to do 55 for the 100. I quit for a while and did Surf Lifesaving, but then got back recently into straight swimming. I think last time I did the 100 I went 57. Reasonable efforts considering the fitness and level of training. However, we often get the British Swimmers hijacking a few lanes next to us on a sunday morning and you have people like Davenport doing 26's from a push as part of a swim down. Its unreal and you have to wonder where they get the power from because some of the swimmers on the Elite squads at Loughborough are not big guys. No bigger than I.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Highway Star said:

For me, its not the speed around the wall or the push, I'm often as fast as them, it's the dolphin kick underwater. My hips aren't the most flexible, but some of their underwater work is insane.

Lochte does under 23 seconds for 50m underwater dolphin kick. That is just ridiculous. I also read that Alex Popov could do 26 seconds for 50m freestyle kick with a kickboard!

Yeah that is ridiculous... tancock is similarly quick as well. Infact there is a list of time on one of the walls at the pool here where they've made everyone do a 50 of each + 100 IM + 50 U/W dolphin. Tancock pretty much tops all of them and his 50 U/W is something in the low 23's

By comparison, in surf lifesaving, with a massive pair of fins on I can crack out a 20 at a push and not the whole way under water either. So doing 23, U/W the whole way, without fins... is almost incomprehensible.

I do have to wonder what they do to get so good at it. When I was training our coach only ever shouted at us to do 6 kicks off the wall at all times. For me, I struggled with fly kick and it was pretty obvious that I couldnt make the turn arounds if I did that many kicks off each turn because I slowed down so much. But thats where it ended... never taught to do it properly, just expected to do it, and if you couldnt you were just left to your own devices. Not really helpful.

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 4th August 14:21

[DJRC]

Technique and core strength. The muscles in the lower body core, pelic area and upper legs that most of us never train or use. My wife is an Osteo and given me some insight on this stuff and the extra strength and power you can get from all the deep muscles sets is unreal, precisely because most of us dont even get close to training them.

The best example of this Ive seen was a cpl of seasons back watching the All Black scrum half who was playing for Toulouse at the time (forgotten his name off the top of my head) doing an exercise set. He was standing/crouching balanced on one of the inflatable exercise balls most of us just try to sit on with our feet off the ground to train for core strength. Except he was in his rugby studs balanced on this thing...then doing weights training. All in balance on it. That is core strength training in a different league to non elite level athletes. It just means you can hold your body at angles the rest of cant get close to, for each different sport letting you use the optimum angle to generate the power you need. In swimming that is essentially putting your body as close to the perfect balance plane that you can. Awesome stuff.

[Otispunkmeyer]

DJRC said:

Technique and core strength. The muscles in the lower body core, pelic area and upper legs that most of us never train or use. My wife is an Osteo and given me some insight on this stuff and the extra strength and power you can get from all the deep muscles sets is unreal, precisely because most of us dont even get close to training them.

The best example of this Ive seen was a cpl of seasons back watching the All Black scrum half who was playing for Toulouse at the time (forgotten his name off the top of my head) doing an exercise set. He was standing/crouching balanced on one of the inflatable exercise balls most of us just try to sit on with our feet off the ground to train for core strength. Except he was in his rugby studs balanced on this thing...then doing weights training. All in balance on it. That is core strength training in a different league to non elite level athletes. It just means you can hold your body at angles the rest of cant get close to, for each different sport letting you use the optimum angle to generate the power you need. In swimming that is essentially putting your body as close to the perfect balance plane that you can. Awesome stuff.

My mate Neil can do that. He used to be a gymnast and a rugby player... moved on to swimming for a bit, then rowing (in which he was awesome) and now cycling (in which he is also awesome). Core strength indeed, and the power in his legs is formidable. Unfortunately I think he was just a little too stocky to have a good stab at swimming. He has all the ingredients, it just doesnt work.

I see in the poolside gym here now that there is alot more appartus geared towards core, plyometric/compound exercise. They have something that looks similar to the gymnastic rings in there.

Its funny how they mentioned cross training on the BBC coverage... Have to agree with it, best shape of my life when I was doing Hour of Power and Break Dancing ontop of surf lifesaving. Saddly I was a bit cack handed at break dancing!! So never got too far. The core strength on some of those boys is actually out of this world. They put gymnasts to shame.