What makes them so special?
Discussion
After meeting up with a few friends today we got talking about what makes an athlete as good as they are? after seeing the champions league final on saturday it got me thinking after watching the brilliance of Messi, how did he become so good? what makes an athlete become as skillful as they are. for example what makes tiger woods that bit more special on the golf course then any other golfer, what did Senna possess that made him able to drive that bit more quickly then other drivers. what made Muhammad Ali the amazing boxer he once was, i could go on! Take Messi for example, he may be a bit shorter then most footballers but he still only has two legs so how is he able to be so much better then everyone else, is it hard work, dedication or 'gods gift' do you think its something your born with? i suppose its one of these questions that can never have a definite answer but it got me wondering what other peoples thoughts were on the subject.
Some of it is physiological, not everyone is built to be a sprinter or an endurance runner, but then if you are a sprinter's build with all the physical advantages that's no help if you either aren't interested in running or don't even take the sport up or can't be bothered to actually compete.
It's possible there could be loads of people who could beat Usain Bolt but they never took up running or ever ran a competitive 100meters.
It's possible there could be loads of people who could beat Usain Bolt but they never took up running or ever ran a competitive 100meters.
Mental. World class athletes sometimes don't need to be in their very best physical condition in many sports to win. The way they see the game, the way they rise above while the others tighten up, the way they go for victory when others choose the conservative route, at a certain point the mentally strong come through and everyone else buckles. Some people don't think enough, some people think far too much, the world class athlete is able turn thought to action and execute seamlessly. You see this in athletes like Lionel Messi, Roger Federer and Kobe Bryant. They make it look painfully easy even though they put in some seriously hard work out of sight. It's fantastic to watch for the fans, not so fantastic if you are the opponent, especially with YouTube rubbing it in your face or as long as the internet exists 
Rather than just saying "mental", I think it is a balance.
Natural physical ability.
Dedication.
Mentral strength.
Concentration.
Single minded obsessive determination.
The 2 extremes for me are Jim Courier and Jason Robinson. Courier had 1/10 the natural ability of Samprass, Agassi probably even Henman, but he had the dedication, mental strength, concentration and utter determinationof all of them put together. And then a bit more. Andre got that in the 2nd half of his career which was why he was still able to compete and win Slams when his body was basically held together with sticky back plastic.
Billy Whizz on the other hand might just have had more natural athletic ability than any other human on the planet. You arent *that* good at 17 on anything else. To maintain that level of ability though, even when your initial athletic ability has dimmed with age, injuries and professional grind requires the dedication and mental strength to come in. He also has that brain pattern that someone like, maybe not Messi, but Xavi has where they "see" the field of play in different perceptions to others and ally it to what their hands/feet/both do at the same time. Its a semi instinctive mathmatical ability that I think is similar to the maths and music genius guys. The basketball guys are very very strong on that side of things.
Natural physical ability.
Dedication.
Mentral strength.
Concentration.
Single minded obsessive determination.
The 2 extremes for me are Jim Courier and Jason Robinson. Courier had 1/10 the natural ability of Samprass, Agassi probably even Henman, but he had the dedication, mental strength, concentration and utter determinationof all of them put together. And then a bit more. Andre got that in the 2nd half of his career which was why he was still able to compete and win Slams when his body was basically held together with sticky back plastic.
Billy Whizz on the other hand might just have had more natural athletic ability than any other human on the planet. You arent *that* good at 17 on anything else. To maintain that level of ability though, even when your initial athletic ability has dimmed with age, injuries and professional grind requires the dedication and mental strength to come in. He also has that brain pattern that someone like, maybe not Messi, but Xavi has where they "see" the field of play in different perceptions to others and ally it to what their hands/feet/both do at the same time. Its a semi instinctive mathmatical ability that I think is similar to the maths and music genius guys. The basketball guys are very very strong on that side of things.
When I stated "mental" it was in regards to what makes them "special". Of course a balance of things is ideal but some of the greats just maximised what they had regardless but their mental side was the deciding factor. As you know there are a lot of athletes with exceptional physical abilities, some who can dominate on raw talent alone but that talent without the mental side, the focus and determination to dominate consistently, lead to laziness. It happens very often in basketball, you have an unbelievable player that gets distracted all too easily with the large pay cheques/sponsorship and doesn't commit to training as they know they can go out and perform at will better than the vast majority. Very similar to a very smart kid in a class that grows restless and gets into trouble because the work is too easy while their classmates toil away.
Funny you should mention Jim Courier as I had him in mind when typing my initial post here. Brilliant guy, to meet him you'd never think he was that beast who was world #1 that fought to the death in one of the toughest eras of modern tennis. His polar opposite? Someone who steps on court bearing gifts other players can only dream about? Someone almost too gifted for his own good and who was never able to really focus for long periods singles matches due to the ease of the game for him... Mansour Bahrami. Saying this, even though Mansor never did himself justice on tour, he is still incredibly special.
Funny you should mention Jim Courier as I had him in mind when typing my initial post here. Brilliant guy, to meet him you'd never think he was that beast who was world #1 that fought to the death in one of the toughest eras of modern tennis. His polar opposite? Someone who steps on court bearing gifts other players can only dream about? Someone almost too gifted for his own good and who was never able to really focus for long periods singles matches due to the ease of the game for him... Mansour Bahrami. Saying this, even though Mansor never did himself justice on tour, he is still incredibly special.
Edited by Justices on Monday 30th May 21:15
DJRC said:
Rather than just saying "mental", I think it is a balance.
Natural physical ability.
Dedication.
Mentral strength.
Concentration.
Single minded obsessive determination.
The 2 extremes for me are Jim Courier and Jason Robinson. Courier had 1/10 the natural ability of Samprass, Agassi probably even Henman, but he had the dedication, mental strength, concentration and utter determinationof all of them put together. And then a bit more. Andre got that in the 2nd half of his career which was why he was still able to compete and win Slams when his body was basically held together with sticky back plastic.
Billy Whizz on the other hand might just have had more natural athletic ability than any other human on the planet. You arent *that* good at 17 on anything else. To maintain that level of ability though, even when your initial athletic ability has dimmed with age, injuries and professional grind requires the dedication and mental strength to come in. He also has that brain pattern that someone like, maybe not Messi, but Xavi has where they "see" the field of play in different perceptions to others and ally it to what their hands/feet/both do at the same time. Its a semi instinctive mathmatical ability that I think is similar to the maths and music genius guys. The basketball guys are very very strong on that side of things.
You can also add a degree of fortune and the influence & guidance of others to that list. In many cases, there is a guiding force which helps these people become great.Natural physical ability.
Dedication.
Mentral strength.
Concentration.
Single minded obsessive determination.
The 2 extremes for me are Jim Courier and Jason Robinson. Courier had 1/10 the natural ability of Samprass, Agassi probably even Henman, but he had the dedication, mental strength, concentration and utter determinationof all of them put together. And then a bit more. Andre got that in the 2nd half of his career which was why he was still able to compete and win Slams when his body was basically held together with sticky back plastic.
Billy Whizz on the other hand might just have had more natural athletic ability than any other human on the planet. You arent *that* good at 17 on anything else. To maintain that level of ability though, even when your initial athletic ability has dimmed with age, injuries and professional grind requires the dedication and mental strength to come in. He also has that brain pattern that someone like, maybe not Messi, but Xavi has where they "see" the field of play in different perceptions to others and ally it to what their hands/feet/both do at the same time. Its a semi instinctive mathmatical ability that I think is similar to the maths and music genius guys. The basketball guys are very very strong on that side of things.
Jason Robinson actually started his rugby career as a scrum half and had someone (and I'm not sure exactly who it was) not had the vision to suggest a move to play on the wing, he could easily have disappeared without a trace. It was apparently obvious that he had ability in some form but he wasn't a great ball handler or a thinking scrum-half and while he had a rare ability to exploit a gap, no one knew what he was going to do next. As such, he was apparently somewhere between difficult and murder to play with and had he stayed as a scrum half, he wouldn't have had such a stellar career.
You could also add his embrace of religion as well since IIRC by his own admission, he was veering down the wrong path up until that point. My memory might be a bit off but I think it was Tuigamala that set him down the path to sorting his life out via the religious route.
I'm sure if you were to look at many others, the influence of one or two people will be absolutely pivotal in making them what they ultimately ended up as.
Some very good points. Never really thought about the psychology behind the athlete. Makes sense that in order for a sportsman to excel they must be able to deal with iminse pressure. Can't imagine the weight on messis shoulders moments before kick off knowing millions of people are watching his every move and expect him to perform.
Interesting subject. One aspect that has been touched on is practice - but you need to consider the competence levels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_compet...
And the idea of being "in the zone". Pressure may have been tremendous for Messi but he didn't necessarily have to think about what he did. He "just" had to relax and play.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_compet...
And the idea of being "in the zone". Pressure may have been tremendous for Messi but he didn't necessarily have to think about what he did. He "just" had to relax and play.
ClintonB said:
You can also add a degree of fortune and the influence & guidance of others to that list. In many cases, there is a guiding force which helps these people become great.
Jason Robinson actually started his rugby career as a scrum half and had someone (and I'm not sure exactly who it was) not had the vision to suggest a move to play on the wing, he could easily have disappeared without a trace. It was apparently obvious that he had ability in some form but he wasn't a great ball handler or a thinking scrum-half and while he had a rare ability to exploit a gap, no one knew what he was going to do next. As such, he was apparently somewhere between difficult and murder to play with and had he stayed as a scrum half, he wouldn't have had such a stellar career.
You could also add his embrace of religion as well since IIRC by his own admission, he was veering down the wrong path up until that point. My memory might be a bit off but I think it was Tuigamala that set him down the path to sorting his life out via the religious route.
I'm sure if you were to look at many others, the influence of one or two people will be absolutely pivotal in making them what they ultimately ended up as.
That would be dummy half not scrum half, the position essentially doesnt exist in League. I played with and against Billy in Lancs back in the day. Everybody knew exactly what he was going to do next...waltz past you. It didnt matter where he was, you gave him the ball and he had already worked out which angle or jink he needed to make and then he just let his feet do the work. You think Messi and Xavi have footwork from the Gods then you never saw what a teenage Robinson did with them. I freely admit neither did I!!!Jason Robinson actually started his rugby career as a scrum half and had someone (and I'm not sure exactly who it was) not had the vision to suggest a move to play on the wing, he could easily have disappeared without a trace. It was apparently obvious that he had ability in some form but he wasn't a great ball handler or a thinking scrum-half and while he had a rare ability to exploit a gap, no one knew what he was going to do next. As such, he was apparently somewhere between difficult and murder to play with and had he stayed as a scrum half, he wouldn't have had such a stellar career.
You could also add his embrace of religion as well since IIRC by his own admission, he was veering down the wrong path up until that point. My memory might be a bit off but I think it was Tuigamala that set him down the path to sorting his life out via the religious route.
I'm sure if you were to look at many others, the influence of one or two people will be absolutely pivotal in making them what they ultimately ended up as.
It was indeed Inga who took him under the wing, after he broke into pro scene he went complete off his tits. A Robinson bender with a few other Wigan lads around the Northern towns was a pretty well known event.
Eric Mc said:
I always associated it withj Arnold Palmer.
It was Gary Player 
I think a classic example is Tiger Woods. Prior to his "problems" he was mentally invincible on the golf course and had 100% belief he was the best in the world. He could perform and hole putts under massive pressure and if he got a sniff of winning, generally he did. Now its all changed, he is mentally broken and that hold he had on the other players has gone. That belief has dissapeared and I feel it won't come back. He's still a top athlete but it just goes to show how the mental side of the worlds best sportsman is everything and the key to them being the worlds best.
GTO-3R said:
It was Gary Player
I think a classic example is Tiger Woods. Prior to his "problems" he was mentally invincible on the golf course and had 100% belief he was the best in the world. He could perform and hole putts under massive pressure and if he got a sniff of winning, generally he did. Now its all changed, he is mentally broken and that hold he had on the other players has gone. That belief has dissapeared and I feel it won't come back. He's still a top athlete but it just goes to show how the mental side of the worlds best sportsman is everything and the key to them being the worlds best.
Which just goes to show how mentally strong he was to be nailing so many women of questionable quality and all the rest of the capers while dominating the golf world. The moment he couldn't get his end away he went downhill. Tiger needs plenty of tail and (what most would consider) chaos off the golf course to compete in a "sport" where focus is everything. I know a good few very well-known athletes who literally cannot focus without getting their "medicine" as often as possible. I don't know if there have been any studies done but many of the elite athletes clearly have sex-drives which dwarf those of your average chap. I am pretty sure it's not about the relative ease of availability either. The wives/girlfriends of most of the top athletes begrudgingly accept so long as it's kept out of the headlines.I think a classic example is Tiger Woods. Prior to his "problems" he was mentally invincible on the golf course and had 100% belief he was the best in the world. He could perform and hole putts under massive pressure and if he got a sniff of winning, generally he did. Now its all changed, he is mentally broken and that hold he had on the other players has gone. That belief has dissapeared and I feel it won't come back. He's still a top athlete but it just goes to show how the mental side of the worlds best sportsman is everything and the key to them being the worlds best.
Edited by Justices on Wednesday 1st June 10:40
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