The Fly Fishing - And Now All Types of Fishing Thread!
Discussion
have to admit i am a bit jealous of these lovely Tench pics. That one is a proper lump, has to be peak condition/genetics to look like that surely ? That's a thing i love about fish, the variety between individuals of the same species is as diverse as humans. There are the obvious ones with species such as Skates and Rays with their distinct markings, Trout are a good example in fresh water but even species like Cod and Roach have many differences between individuals if you look closely enough.
Indeed.otolith said:
Thanks!
Not too late - traditionally the closed season applied to stillwaters as well as rivers and tench were seen as a prime opening day target for June 16th. Will probably still be feeding well into July, the only risk is that they will decide to start spawning.
Knew you would be worth asking, what a great comprehensive reply. That should be a huge help to Limmy.Not too late - traditionally the closed season applied to stillwaters as well as rivers and tench were seen as a prime opening day target for June 16th. Will probably still be feeding well into July, the only risk is that they will decide to start spawning.
Smollet said:
Cracking fish but it's boat caught so doesn't count, boat fishing is for people that can't catch fish from terra firma 
I know a bloke through a fishing forum that guides out there and the fishing is incredible. Problem for me is i know too many people that have gone and hardly fished back here due to how poor our own fishing is.
There are still Cod that size in UK waters but they are a full day and probably more steaming away so wouldn't make the criteria for a British record.
wc98 said:
Cracking fish but it's boat caught so doesn't count, boat fishing is for people that can't catch fish from terra firma
I know a bloke through a fishing forum that guides out there and the fishing is incredible. Problem for me is i know too many people that have gone and hardly fished back here due to how poor our own fishing is.
There are still Cod that size in UK waters but they are a full day and probably more steaming away so wouldn't make the criteria for a British record.
It’s a massive fish, I have had 2 of 34.5lb from the shore (one a long lean fish and the other a fat pig) I have also seen my mate land a couple of 40’s and a 56lb fish from the shore. I think at the time he caught it the 56lb fish was I. The top 5 shore caught cod. I know a bloke through a fishing forum that guides out there and the fishing is incredible. Problem for me is i know too many people that have gone and hardly fished back here due to how poor our own fishing is.
There are still Cod that size in UK waters but they are a full day and probably more steaming away so wouldn't make the criteria for a British record.
otolith said:
Thanks!
Not too late - traditionally the closed season applied to stillwaters as well as rivers and tench were seen as a prime opening day target for June 16th. Will probably still be feeding well into July, the only risk is that they will decide to start spawning.
Most important thing, as with any other species, is to find somewhere with a decent population of them, and these days also somewhere that hasn't been filled in with carp. If you can indicate the part of the country you're in someone may have some ideas.
Strategy will depend on the kind of water. Broadly, I have three approaches;
1. Float fishing small baits - standard waggler setup, bait on or just off the bottom, most of the shot around the float, some at half depth, another six inches from the hook. Maggots, corn, small worms, prawns, etc on the hook.
2. Float fishing large baits - lift method, chunky quill float attached with rubbers, just one large shot (large enough to sink the float) 1-3 inches from the hook, set well overdepth and then tensioned until the float is cocked. Used with a big piece of bread flake, a lobworm, cube of luncheon meat, mussel, etc.
3. Scaled down carp approach. Alarm and bobbin, in-line semi-fixed lead with feed in PVA mesh sausages - or in-line semi-fixed method feeder (Some people prefer helicopter rigs, I've never bothered). About six inches of line between the lead/feeder and hook. Hair rigged bait, typically three fake red maggots, or a boilie, but whatever works. I do sometimes fish this sort of rig on a quivertip rod without the alarm, when I may change to a simple running leger rig with the lead or feeder on a link to a swivel or ring running on the main line and stopped by a bead and swivel joining the 18 inch to two foot hook link.
I would use the first approach when I can use lighter tackle and where the tench are a bit tackle shy, or where I'm also interested in catching other fish (rudd and crucians, say). Also where there is a layer of weed on the bottom that I don't want the bait to sink into.
I would use the second approach where I need heavier tackle to get the tench out, because you can balance a big bait, big hook, strong line, also where I want to avoid smaller fish by getting a big bait down to the deck quickly. It also has the advantage of not needing the depth to be set with any great accuracy, so works well when the topography of the bottom means that an accurately plumbed float will have the bait dangling away from the bottom if you aren't exactly where you plumbed it.
I would use the third approach when fish are at a distance and where you might be waiting a long time for a bite. Typically, going after big tench in gravel pits, where you find a feature at range and need to cast and feed accurately and wait it out. I'll use one to three rods for this, depending on rules and just how scarce they are. The fake maggots are brilliant if there are small roach and rudd which will reduce real maggots to chewed skins before a tench comes along, and are also slightly buoyant which pops them up a little.
I tend to use a decent amount of groundbait, but you have to play that by ear a bit. I tend towards the fishmeal and ground hemp mixtures, and usually add whole hemp and some samples of hookbait. The fish I pictured earlier were caught on bread flake - for them, I submerged half a loaf in a bucket of water until it stopped bubbling, then drained it, mashed it, and added dry groundbait until it was stiff enough to ball and throw.
Wow what great information, many thanks for your time and knowledge! I'm in the midlands next to East Midlands Airport. Not too late - traditionally the closed season applied to stillwaters as well as rivers and tench were seen as a prime opening day target for June 16th. Will probably still be feeding well into July, the only risk is that they will decide to start spawning.
Most important thing, as with any other species, is to find somewhere with a decent population of them, and these days also somewhere that hasn't been filled in with carp. If you can indicate the part of the country you're in someone may have some ideas.
Strategy will depend on the kind of water. Broadly, I have three approaches;
1. Float fishing small baits - standard waggler setup, bait on or just off the bottom, most of the shot around the float, some at half depth, another six inches from the hook. Maggots, corn, small worms, prawns, etc on the hook.
2. Float fishing large baits - lift method, chunky quill float attached with rubbers, just one large shot (large enough to sink the float) 1-3 inches from the hook, set well overdepth and then tensioned until the float is cocked. Used with a big piece of bread flake, a lobworm, cube of luncheon meat, mussel, etc.
3. Scaled down carp approach. Alarm and bobbin, in-line semi-fixed lead with feed in PVA mesh sausages - or in-line semi-fixed method feeder (Some people prefer helicopter rigs, I've never bothered). About six inches of line between the lead/feeder and hook. Hair rigged bait, typically three fake red maggots, or a boilie, but whatever works. I do sometimes fish this sort of rig on a quivertip rod without the alarm, when I may change to a simple running leger rig with the lead or feeder on a link to a swivel or ring running on the main line and stopped by a bead and swivel joining the 18 inch to two foot hook link.
I would use the first approach when I can use lighter tackle and where the tench are a bit tackle shy, or where I'm also interested in catching other fish (rudd and crucians, say). Also where there is a layer of weed on the bottom that I don't want the bait to sink into.
I would use the second approach where I need heavier tackle to get the tench out, because you can balance a big bait, big hook, strong line, also where I want to avoid smaller fish by getting a big bait down to the deck quickly. It also has the advantage of not needing the depth to be set with any great accuracy, so works well when the topography of the bottom means that an accurately plumbed float will have the bait dangling away from the bottom if you aren't exactly where you plumbed it.
I would use the third approach when fish are at a distance and where you might be waiting a long time for a bite. Typically, going after big tench in gravel pits, where you find a feature at range and need to cast and feed accurately and wait it out. I'll use one to three rods for this, depending on rules and just how scarce they are. The fake maggots are brilliant if there are small roach and rudd which will reduce real maggots to chewed skins before a tench comes along, and are also slightly buoyant which pops them up a little.
I tend to use a decent amount of groundbait, but you have to play that by ear a bit. I tend towards the fishmeal and ground hemp mixtures, and usually add whole hemp and some samples of hookbait. The fish I pictured earlier were caught on bread flake - for them, I submerged half a loaf in a bucket of water until it stopped bubbling, then drained it, mashed it, and added dry groundbait until it was stiff enough to ball and throw.
I'm going to give option one and three a go this weekend.. so for float fishing and this might sound stupid but will also give you an insight of my actual knowledge.. how do you know how many weights to add to a float? Also once set up do you plumb you line so it sits on the bottom just?
For option 3 I can set this kind of rig up....
I did have a winter campaign fishing for pike and really enjoyed this introduction to fishing, I'm trying to target all species as I move along in this hobby
Some floats give you the loading , usually in grams , on the float side . Even if they don't a few minutes experimentation will give you what you need . The sort of floats you use for this fishing will be various types of waggler and many will be partly loaded so they need fewer shot to cock . That is fine for most fishing but for tench I prefer all the weight very close to the bottom and hence prefer unloaded floats .
An easy trap to fall into is to use floats that are too light ,but as the match anglers say you need your float to boss the water and not vice versa . I use wagglers taking 2-75-3.5 g on the 20 plus acre pit I fish and that translates to 5-8 AA shot . Thanks to friends with much more float fishing expertise I now use an olivette (a small , streamlined weight)instead of shot and it is both simpler and reduces any risk of damage to line .
The biggest change I've made in tench fishing is to use siding floats, enabling easier casting and the ability to fish deep water - I'm fishing at 10-14ft a rod length or two out. Set up is very easy - a bead is threaded on the line above the fioat and a stop knot (I use nylon of 0.18--0.22 typically ) tied on at the depth you need . The secret is to leave long tags (1"++) on the knot as it will shoot through the rod rings smoothly but can catch if tags aren't left on. I overcast by at least 15 yards and retrieve the float to the fishing spot ensuring the rod tip is under water so as to sink the line - surface drag is your enemy !
I'm no real expert in this and I'm sure others will offer more advice but I've been more serious about tench over the last few seasons and am now at least confident that my float set up is the right one.
An easy trap to fall into is to use floats that are too light ,but as the match anglers say you need your float to boss the water and not vice versa . I use wagglers taking 2-75-3.5 g on the 20 plus acre pit I fish and that translates to 5-8 AA shot . Thanks to friends with much more float fishing expertise I now use an olivette (a small , streamlined weight)instead of shot and it is both simpler and reduces any risk of damage to line .
The biggest change I've made in tench fishing is to use siding floats, enabling easier casting and the ability to fish deep water - I'm fishing at 10-14ft a rod length or two out. Set up is very easy - a bead is threaded on the line above the fioat and a stop knot (I use nylon of 0.18--0.22 typically ) tied on at the depth you need . The secret is to leave long tags (1"++) on the knot as it will shoot through the rod rings smoothly but can catch if tags aren't left on. I overcast by at least 15 yards and retrieve the float to the fishing spot ensuring the rod tip is under water so as to sink the line - surface drag is your enemy !
I'm no real expert in this and I'm sure others will offer more advice but I've been more serious about tench over the last few seasons and am now at least confident that my float set up is the right one.
Edited by coppice on Wednesday 19th June 07:14
^^ agree with all this. To get the shotting right, I start off putting them all right under the float and dropping it in the edge and add and remove shot until it sits right. The numbers printed on the side of the float are sometimes spot on, other times a bit approximate.
I think most boxes of split shot give the size in g now as well as the name, but this chart may be useful;
So if the float is marked as 3BB, I might try 2BB, a number 4, and two number 6 and see how that sits. If it's too low, take a 6 off, if it's too high swap one of the 6's for a 4. Once I know what I'm working with I move them to where they need to be on the line. For a typical waggler rig I would leave the BBs around the float, move the 4 to half depth, one six half way between that and the hook, the other 6 about 6 inches from the hook.
If I need to get the bait down quicker (say I'm after tench and there are hordes of ravenous rudd grabbing the bait on the way down) I would move all of the intermediate shots closer to the lowest shot. If that doesn't work I would split the BBs round the float up into smaller shots, leave one each side of the float and move the rest down.
Worth keeping in mind when positioning shots that the whole system, when in flight, will tend to rotate around the shots. This has two important corollaries for avoiding tangles:
- If you position each shot halfway or further down the line from the previous one, if rig line rotates around that mass, the hook won't tangle with the one above
- and the more similar sized masses you have on the line, the more complicated the rotation can get and the more likely it is to tangle. Most of the shot under the float = no worries. Most of the shot bulked up down the line = no worries. Half the shot at mid depth and half round the float can be a bit more troublesome.
Sliding floats are brilliant for deep water. I learnt to use them as a kid when I joined a club with a 20' deep water supply reservoir and they've come in handy many times since. I don't use them as often since I bought the 15' float rod because it pushes up the maximum depth of fixed float you can comfortably cast and a fixed float is a bit less fiddly, but definitely one to have in the armoury. And, because of the effect described above, they cast brilliantly.
I think most boxes of split shot give the size in g now as well as the name, but this chart may be useful;
So if the float is marked as 3BB, I might try 2BB, a number 4, and two number 6 and see how that sits. If it's too low, take a 6 off, if it's too high swap one of the 6's for a 4. Once I know what I'm working with I move them to where they need to be on the line. For a typical waggler rig I would leave the BBs around the float, move the 4 to half depth, one six half way between that and the hook, the other 6 about 6 inches from the hook.
If I need to get the bait down quicker (say I'm after tench and there are hordes of ravenous rudd grabbing the bait on the way down) I would move all of the intermediate shots closer to the lowest shot. If that doesn't work I would split the BBs round the float up into smaller shots, leave one each side of the float and move the rest down.
Worth keeping in mind when positioning shots that the whole system, when in flight, will tend to rotate around the shots. This has two important corollaries for avoiding tangles:
- If you position each shot halfway or further down the line from the previous one, if rig line rotates around that mass, the hook won't tangle with the one above
- and the more similar sized masses you have on the line, the more complicated the rotation can get and the more likely it is to tangle. Most of the shot under the float = no worries. Most of the shot bulked up down the line = no worries. Half the shot at mid depth and half round the float can be a bit more troublesome.
Sliding floats are brilliant for deep water. I learnt to use them as a kid when I joined a club with a 20' deep water supply reservoir and they've come in handy many times since. I don't use them as often since I bought the 15' float rod because it pushes up the maximum depth of fixed float you can comfortably cast and a fixed float is a bit less fiddly, but definitely one to have in the armoury. And, because of the effect described above, they cast brilliantly.
Edited by otolith on Wednesday 19th June 10:16
Using split shot is really not a science. When I leant to fish floats were not marked, that's a new thing, so you just instinctively know that a cork bodied float used more shot than a quill (but perhaps not if it was a very big quill) 
I think anyone fishing a float will very quickly get a feel for how much shot it will take. More to the point is understanding where to put the shot according to how you want to present the bait.
Pic of the Tames at Shiplake today just for a bit of added colour
I think anyone fishing a float will very quickly get a feel for how much shot it will take. More to the point is understanding where to put the shot according to how you want to present the bait. Pic of the Tames at Shiplake today just for a bit of added colour
RichB said:
Using split shot is really not a science. When I leant to fish floats were not marked, that's a new thing, so you just instinctively know that a cork bodied float used more shot than a quill (but perhaps not if it was a very big quill) I think anyone fishing a float will very quickly get a feel for how much shot it will take. More to the point is understanding where to put the shot according to how you want to present the bait.
Pic of the Tames at Shiplake today just for a bit of added colour
Are we playing spot the float and how many x's do we get I think anyone fishing a float will very quickly get a feel for how much shot it will take. More to the point is understanding where to put the shot according to how you want to present the bait. Pic of the Tames at Shiplake today just for a bit of added colour
ED209 said:
It’s a massive fish, I have had 2 of 34.5lb from the shore (one a long lean fish and the other a fat pig) I have also seen my mate land a couple of 40’s and a 56lb fish from the shore. I think at the time he caught it the 56lb fish was I. The top 5 shore caught cod.
Do you still fish for them in the UK ? I spend a lot of time up here after them in winter and even when i got offered a free trip to Norway i couldn't take it due to the fear of giving up my home stuff due to the difference in standard of fish and fishing ? Is your mate the lad that had the big Ling as well ? The guide i mentioned is John Strange , you know him ?I had a huge fish at my feet on my own coast in the late 90's. No drop net and made a mess of trying to walk it to shore. Only shore Cod that ever took line, first run was 50 yards, then a further two smaller ones. It pulled me off my feet into a harbour wall when i hit it when it bit and would have ripped the rod out my hand if i hadn't managed to get three quarters of a turn off the drag as it was pulling my arms up the wall. Image of it lying on the surface 12 feet below me burnt into my mind forever and live with the slim hope i might hook another before i can't do the winter fishing anymore, doubtful due to the commercial hammering they get these days although it might only need a couple of poor years Herring recruitment to get a few monsters back on inshore ground instead of full time pelagic on the big herring shoals.
To be fair my coast has never been noted for big fish, i only know of five twenties since the 80's, best 28lb 12oz. Mid teens seems to be a good one in the last 15 years and there have been very few of those in that time given the angling hours this coast sees in winter.
dickymint said:
RichB said:
Using split shot is really not a science. When I leant to fish floats were not marked, that's a new thing, so you just instinctively know that a cork bodied float used more shot than a quill (but perhaps not if it was a very big quill) I think anyone fishing a float will very quickly get a feel for how much shot it will take. More to the point is understanding where to put the shot according to how you want to present the bait.
Pic of the Tames at Shiplake today just for a bit of added colour
Are we playing spot the float and how many x's do we get I think anyone fishing a float will very quickly get a feel for how much shot it will take. More to the point is understanding where to put the shot according to how you want to present the bait. Pic of the Tames at Shiplake today just for a bit of added colour
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