The **BOXING** thread (Vol 4)
Discussion
AJs new found mojo would be rolled back pretty quickly with a third Usyk defeat.the mojo has been helped along by some great matchmaking not walkover fights but enough to give him a bit of a match without it being a critical championship fight like the crazy run of 12 he had. Dubious[sic] is another potential banana skin both of these guys are susceptible to a bop on the bonce so one punch will win this fight. I do think AJ will be much smarter in there than Dubious but Danny boy has been progressing.
So AJ takes the IBF belt...Usyk beats Fury again of course but then vacates to go back down to Cruiser. Parker/Dubois and AJ look likely to pick up a world title.
So AJ takes the IBF belt...Usyk beats Fury again of course but then vacates to go back down to Cruiser. Parker/Dubois and AJ look likely to pick up a world title.
jazzybees said:
Totally understand what you are saying. Talk a lot of sense.
This debate can only be settled in the ring, if they do fight again.
A few things match my thoughts on why AJ will win.
Yes AJ is a good fighter. Over 12 rounds Usyk speed, stamina and ability to adapt,
Makes Usyk a better fighter, And unbeatable, And yes Maybe he’s too good if the fight goes 12 rounds.
But I don’t think it’s going 12 rounds.
Dubois did put him down. AJ hits harder, has more combo’s, more punches and hits more accurately than Dubois.
You are right, AJ was excellent in their last fight, split decision.
With the new coaching team, and AJ getting back to how he was before losing to Ruiz.
(Or putting it another way, getting his mojo back).
I think AJ will beat Usyk if they ever fought again.
I'd argue that the pre-Ruiz AJ was worse than the AJ we saw against Usyk 2nd time around, and that's the AJ we've been seeing since This debate can only be settled in the ring, if they do fight again.
A few things match my thoughts on why AJ will win.
Yes AJ is a good fighter. Over 12 rounds Usyk speed, stamina and ability to adapt,
Makes Usyk a better fighter, And unbeatable, And yes Maybe he’s too good if the fight goes 12 rounds.
But I don’t think it’s going 12 rounds.
Dubois did put him down. AJ hits harder, has more combo’s, more punches and hits more accurately than Dubois.
You are right, AJ was excellent in their last fight, split decision.
With the new coaching team, and AJ getting back to how he was before losing to Ruiz.
(Or putting it another way, getting his mojo back).
I think AJ will beat Usyk if they ever fought again.
AJ adopted a more conservative style after Klitschko. Think people feel it happened after Ruiz, but he even said himself after Wlad that he didn't want to have to go through that to win again. The guy who stands and bangs that beat Whyte wasn't in the ring against Ruiz, either. But when he dropped Ruiz, he got a little sloppy and just got caught with a one in a million shot. Those fast hands on the inside are bad for a fighter like AJ, so the rematch was more conservative than usual, but I think that was specific to Ruiz, rather than a theme we have seen since.
AJ has been a boxer puncher since Wlad. He relies on his good read of distance and his strong jab to open up opportunities and his combination punching to do damage at mid range.
When he fights guys with faster hands than him, that are likely to land in that mid range as well, he sticks more to the outside. We saw this before Ruiz against Parker. We have also seen the patient, wait for the opportunities that come off the jab post Ruiz and pre Usyk against Pulev. I really don't think he's changed much at all.
AJ isn't a slugger and never has been. He can't fight a much more refined version of what Chisora tried to do against Usyk, he doesn't have the build or style for that.
When AJ can't successfully win the battle at mid range, he relies on his jab and distance control to win (see Ruiz II, Parker, Franklin)
The problem with Usyk was that he dominated AJ from the outside, and when AJ tried to land work without setting it up with his jab, Usyk also got the better of him at mid range. When AJ did have some success with his jab, Usyk was always ready to counter as he stepped into mid range
I think that's why people interpret it as trying to outbox him. He wasn't, but he was being outboxed. If AJ can't establish his jab and can't win at mid range, he's out of options
He had some success to the body, but Usyk adjusts too quickly for that to work long enough to either win over 12 or do enough damage to wound him so you can take him out. AJ doesn't have the ring IQ to make multiple in fight adjustments and keep outdoing Usyk (nobody does)
So I think if they fought again, we'd just see the same fight again, unless Usyk starts to drop off a bit, then AJ has a good chance. Daniel only dropped Usyk cos he hit him way, way too low. He also landed a bunch of borderline and clean bodyshots and Usyk didn't go down, won every round and stopped him. I don't think AJ hits harder than Dubois, either, at least not so meaningfully more he's going to stop Usyk with the same punches
The Fury fight also showed you can't rely on working the body too much to beat him, in fact, overplaying that hand is what got Fury nearly stopped in the 9th. Usyk countered him as he dropped his hand and got beat form pillar to post. He's formidable at taking any success you have and very quickly using it against you
Anyway, all that is to say, I don't think AJ has got better since he last fought Usyk, at least not significantly so. I do think Ben Davison will be good for him and I'm excited to see what happens for him. I definitely think he'll stop Fury if he gets that fight. The Usyk saga is over, though. AJ even said yesterday he wants Fury whether he wins or loses against Usyk. The Usyk saga is done. He's going to smash up Fury again and go down as the best of his era and one of the best to ever do it. He's only getting beat by Father Time if he lets himself, the guy that's been fighting the last 2 years beats all these HWs
AJ, DD press conference got a bit fruity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
Bright Halo said:
AJ, DD press conference got a bit fruity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
Selling the fighthttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
Bright Halo said:
AJ, DD press conference got a bit fruity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
I think a fired up and aggressive AJ will suit DD perfectlyhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
Yazza54 said:
Bright Halo said:
AJ, DD press conference got a bit fruity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
Selling the fighthttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
Bright Halo said:
AJ, DD press conference got a bit fruity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
Just watched this, I'm liking this Dubois. It MIGHT get him sparkled, but hey, nothing ventured...his last two opponents are a whole lot better than any of AJs since Usyk...https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/c9r3p3p5v9qo
Never seen AJ quite so worked up!
If I was DD I think I would be a bit scared.
Dubois was similarly quiet but confident in the round table face off for the Saudi card last month.
Edited by biggbn on Saturday 29th June 15:41
Pugaris said:
jazzybees said:
Totally understand what you are saying. Talk a lot of sense.
This debate can only be settled in the ring, if they do fight again.
A few things match my thoughts on why AJ will win.
Yes AJ is a good fighter. Over 12 rounds Usyk speed, stamina and ability to adapt,
Makes Usyk a better fighter, And unbeatable, And yes Maybe he’s too good if the fight goes 12 rounds.
But I don’t think it’s going 12 rounds.
Dubois did put him down. AJ hits harder, has more combo’s, more punches and hits more accurately than Dubois.
You are right, AJ was excellent in their last fight, split decision.
With the new coaching team, and AJ getting back to how he was before losing to Ruiz.
(Or putting it another way, getting his mojo back).
I think AJ will beat Usyk if they ever fought again.
I'd argue that the pre-Ruiz AJ was worse than the AJ we saw against Usyk 2nd time around, and that's the AJ we've been seeing since This debate can only be settled in the ring, if they do fight again.
A few things match my thoughts on why AJ will win.
Yes AJ is a good fighter. Over 12 rounds Usyk speed, stamina and ability to adapt,
Makes Usyk a better fighter, And unbeatable, And yes Maybe he’s too good if the fight goes 12 rounds.
But I don’t think it’s going 12 rounds.
Dubois did put him down. AJ hits harder, has more combo’s, more punches and hits more accurately than Dubois.
You are right, AJ was excellent in their last fight, split decision.
With the new coaching team, and AJ getting back to how he was before losing to Ruiz.
(Or putting it another way, getting his mojo back).
I think AJ will beat Usyk if they ever fought again.
AJ adopted a more conservative style after Klitschko. Think people feel it happened after Ruiz, but he even said himself after Wlad that he didn't want to have to go through that to win again. The guy who stands and bangs that beat Whyte wasn't in the ring against Ruiz, either. But when he dropped Ruiz, he got a little sloppy and just got caught with a one in a million shot. Those fast hands on the inside are bad for a fighter like AJ, so the rematch was more conservative than usual, but I think that was specific to Ruiz, rather than a theme we have seen since.
AJ has been a boxer puncher since Wlad. He relies on his good read of distance and his strong jab to open up opportunities and his combination punching to do damage at mid range.
When he fights guys with faster hands than him, that are likely to land in that mid range as well, he sticks more to the outside. We saw this before Ruiz against Parker. We have also seen the patient, wait for the opportunities that come off the jab post Ruiz and pre Usyk against Pulev. I really don't think he's changed much at all.
AJ isn't a slugger and never has been. He can't fight a much more refined version of what Chisora tried to do against Usyk, he doesn't have the build or style for that.
When AJ can't successfully win the battle at mid range, he relies on his jab and distance control to win (see Ruiz II, Parker, Franklin)
The problem with Usyk was that he dominated AJ from the outside, and when AJ tried to land work without setting it up with his jab, Usyk also got the better of him at mid range. When AJ did have some success with his jab, Usyk was always ready to counter as he stepped into mid range
I think that's why people interpret it as trying to outbox him. He wasn't, but he was being outboxed. If AJ can't establish his jab and can't win at mid range, he's out of options
He had some success to the body, but Usyk adjusts too quickly for that to work long enough to either win over 12 or do enough damage to wound him so you can take him out. AJ doesn't have the ring IQ to make multiple in fight adjustments and keep outdoing Usyk (nobody does)
So I think if they fought again, we'd just see the same fight again, unless Usyk starts to drop off a bit, then AJ has a good chance. Daniel only dropped Usyk cos he hit him way, way too low. He also landed a bunch of borderline and clean bodyshots and Usyk didn't go down, won every round and stopped him. I don't think AJ hits harder than Dubois, either, at least not so meaningfully more he's going to stop Usyk with the same punches
The Fury fight also showed you can't rely on working the body too much to beat him, in fact, overplaying that hand is what got Fury nearly stopped in the 9th. Usyk countered him as he dropped his hand and got beat form pillar to post. He's formidable at taking any success you have and very quickly using it against you
Anyway, all that is to say, I don't think AJ has got better since he last fought Usyk, at least not significantly so. I do think Ben Davison will be good for him and I'm excited to see what happens for him. I definitely think he'll stop Fury if he gets that fight. The Usyk saga is over, though. AJ even said yesterday he wants Fury whether he wins or loses against Usyk. The Usyk saga is done. He's going to smash up Fury again and go down as the best of his era and one of the best to ever do it. He's only getting beat by Father Time if he lets himself, the guy that's been fighting the last 2 years beats all these HWs
A lot I can’t argue against.
You have nearly convinced me that AJ would not win if they fought again.
I hope they do fight again
I can’t wait.
Pugaris said:
I'd argue that the pre-Ruiz AJ was worse than the AJ we saw against Usyk 2nd time around, and that's the AJ we've been seeing since
AJ adopted a more conservative style after Klitschko. Think people feel it happened after Ruiz, but he even said himself after Wlad that he didn't want to have to go through that to win again. The guy who stands and bangs that beat Whyte wasn't in the ring against Ruiz, either. But when he dropped Ruiz, he got a little sloppy and just got caught with a one in a million shot. Those fast hands on the inside are bad for a fighter like AJ, so the rematch was more conservative than usual, but I think that was specific to Ruiz, rather than a theme we have seen since.
AJ has been a boxer puncher since Wlad. He relies on his good read of distance and his strong jab to open up opportunities and his combination punching to do damage at mid range.
When he fights guys with faster hands than him, that are likely to land in that mid range as well, he sticks more to the outside. We saw this before Ruiz against Parker. We have also seen the patient, wait for the opportunities that come off the jab post Ruiz and pre Usyk against Pulev. I really don't think he's changed much at all.
AJ isn't a slugger and never has been. He can't fight a much more refined version of what Chisora tried to do against Usyk, he doesn't have the build or style for that.
When AJ can't successfully win the battle at mid range, he relies on his jab and distance control to win (see Ruiz II, Parker, Franklin)
The problem with Usyk was that he dominated AJ from the outside, and when AJ tried to land work without setting it up with his jab, Usyk also got the better of him at mid range. When AJ did have some success with his jab, Usyk was always ready to counter as he stepped into mid range
I think that's why people interpret it as trying to outbox him. He wasn't, but he was being outboxed. If AJ can't establish his jab and can't win at mid range, he's out of options
He had some success to the body, but Usyk adjusts too quickly for that to work long enough to either win over 12 or do enough damage to wound him so you can take him out. AJ doesn't have the ring IQ to make multiple in fight adjustments and keep outdoing Usyk (nobody does)
So I think if they fought again, we'd just see the same fight again, unless Usyk starts to drop off a bit, then AJ has a good chance. Daniel only dropped Usyk cos he hit him way, way too low. He also landed a bunch of borderline and clean bodyshots and Usyk didn't go down, won every round and stopped him. I don't think AJ hits harder than Dubois, either, at least not so meaningfully more he's going to stop Usyk with the same punches
The Fury fight also showed you can't rely on working the body too much to beat him, in fact, overplaying that hand is what got Fury nearly stopped in the 9th. Usyk countered him as he dropped his hand and got beat form pillar to post. He's formidable at taking any success you have and very quickly using it against you
Anyway, all that is to say, I don't think AJ has got better since he last fought Usyk, at least not significantly so. I do think Ben Davison will be good for him and I'm excited to see what happens for him. I definitely think he'll stop Fury if he gets that fight. The Usyk saga is over, though. AJ even said yesterday he wants Fury whether he wins or loses against Usyk. The Usyk saga is done. He's going to smash up Fury again and go down as the best of his era and one of the best to ever do it. He's only getting beat by Father Time if he lets himself, the guy that's been fighting the last 2 years beats all these HWs
Largely agree, but Usyk isn’t one of the all time great heavyweights. AJ adopted a more conservative style after Klitschko. Think people feel it happened after Ruiz, but he even said himself after Wlad that he didn't want to have to go through that to win again. The guy who stands and bangs that beat Whyte wasn't in the ring against Ruiz, either. But when he dropped Ruiz, he got a little sloppy and just got caught with a one in a million shot. Those fast hands on the inside are bad for a fighter like AJ, so the rematch was more conservative than usual, but I think that was specific to Ruiz, rather than a theme we have seen since.
AJ has been a boxer puncher since Wlad. He relies on his good read of distance and his strong jab to open up opportunities and his combination punching to do damage at mid range.
When he fights guys with faster hands than him, that are likely to land in that mid range as well, he sticks more to the outside. We saw this before Ruiz against Parker. We have also seen the patient, wait for the opportunities that come off the jab post Ruiz and pre Usyk against Pulev. I really don't think he's changed much at all.
AJ isn't a slugger and never has been. He can't fight a much more refined version of what Chisora tried to do against Usyk, he doesn't have the build or style for that.
When AJ can't successfully win the battle at mid range, he relies on his jab and distance control to win (see Ruiz II, Parker, Franklin)
The problem with Usyk was that he dominated AJ from the outside, and when AJ tried to land work without setting it up with his jab, Usyk also got the better of him at mid range. When AJ did have some success with his jab, Usyk was always ready to counter as he stepped into mid range
I think that's why people interpret it as trying to outbox him. He wasn't, but he was being outboxed. If AJ can't establish his jab and can't win at mid range, he's out of options
He had some success to the body, but Usyk adjusts too quickly for that to work long enough to either win over 12 or do enough damage to wound him so you can take him out. AJ doesn't have the ring IQ to make multiple in fight adjustments and keep outdoing Usyk (nobody does)
So I think if they fought again, we'd just see the same fight again, unless Usyk starts to drop off a bit, then AJ has a good chance. Daniel only dropped Usyk cos he hit him way, way too low. He also landed a bunch of borderline and clean bodyshots and Usyk didn't go down, won every round and stopped him. I don't think AJ hits harder than Dubois, either, at least not so meaningfully more he's going to stop Usyk with the same punches
The Fury fight also showed you can't rely on working the body too much to beat him, in fact, overplaying that hand is what got Fury nearly stopped in the 9th. Usyk countered him as he dropped his hand and got beat form pillar to post. He's formidable at taking any success you have and very quickly using it against you
Anyway, all that is to say, I don't think AJ has got better since he last fought Usyk, at least not significantly so. I do think Ben Davison will be good for him and I'm excited to see what happens for him. I definitely think he'll stop Fury if he gets that fight. The Usyk saga is over, though. AJ even said yesterday he wants Fury whether he wins or loses against Usyk. The Usyk saga is done. He's going to smash up Fury again and go down as the best of his era and one of the best to ever do it. He's only getting beat by Father Time if he lets himself, the guy that's been fighting the last 2 years beats all these HWs
Bam Rodriguez is that f
king guy. Just put on a performance that was reminiscent of Crawford Vs Spence against Estrada. Did take a flash KD, but so did Inoue...
Top 5 P4P for me. Sunny Edwards also looked great on the undercard (got a cut from a clash of heads, fought 4 more rounds basically blind and still winning them all before doctor stopped and he won on the cards) and the Bam performance has made Sunny look very good in retrospect
king guy. Just put on a performance that was reminiscent of Crawford Vs Spence against Estrada. Did take a flash KD, but so did Inoue... Top 5 P4P for me. Sunny Edwards also looked great on the undercard (got a cut from a clash of heads, fought 4 more rounds basically blind and still winning them all before doctor stopped and he won on the cards) and the Bam performance has made Sunny look very good in retrospect
Pugaris said:
Bam Rodriguez is that fking guy. Just put on a performance that was reminiscent of Crawford Vs Spence against Estrada. Did take a flash KD, but so did Inoue...
Top 5 P4P for me. Sunny Edwards also looked great on the undercard (got a cut from a clash of heads, fought 4 more rounds basically blind and still winning them all before doctor stopped and he won on the cards) and the Bam performance has made Sunny look very good in retrospect
Rodriguez was class, brutal body shot finish. Lovely king guy. Just put on a performance that was reminiscent of Crawford Vs Spence against Estrada. Did take a flash KD, but so did Inoue... Top 5 P4P for me. Sunny Edwards also looked great on the undercard (got a cut from a clash of heads, fought 4 more rounds basically blind and still winning them all before doctor stopped and he won on the cards) and the Bam performance has made Sunny look very good in retrospect
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