The **BOXING** thread (Vol 4)

[dom9]

biggbn said:

Intersting fight. Agree, AJ SHOULD flatten him, but I'd suggest going full on search and destroy would benefit big Dan. Why get in a gunfight with a gunslinger. Dubois has huge power and if ends up a gunfight it's a coin flip. I'd suggest AJ uses his jab, but aggressively, busts Dubois up, dishearten him and likely stops him after half way. I don't think either have great engines but the prospect of an AJ who has tried, and failed to take Dubois out going into the second half of the fight with doubts in his head is intriguing.

Conversely, I think Dubois only chance, and it IS a chance is to go full seek and destroy, caution to the wind and draw AJ into a brawl. Either man can flatten the other. I think it's a closer fight than many think. ( would AJ have confidently busted up Hrgovic or went for the finish against Miller the way Dubois did?)

....But I aso think AJ is now too crafty to be pulled into a brawl. I'd not be surprised by an early stoppage either way, but AJ must be a big favourite isn't he?

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 27th June 09:38

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 27th June 09:40

I was thinking along similar lines. Dubois is definitely someone with the power to knock AJ back a step in his 'transformation' (back) to aggressor/destroyer. Dubois lands early, doubt creeps in... could get very interesting. But AJ must be clear favourite and I can see it going his way, ending it in the early rounds.

Edited to sort quoting out!

Edited by dom9 on Thursday 27th June 11:40

[paua]

Unreal said:

I'd support the Saudi elimination of the WBA, WBC, IBO and IBF. Add any Micky Mouse ones like the WBU if they still exist. Multiple world champions at the same weight is a farce

Agreed - there's only one WR for the 100 m sprint, high-jump etc. One champ per weight class.

[biggbn]

Unreal said:

biggbn said:

Unreal said:

Bright Halo said:

AJ will flatten DD inside two rounds. He is levels above especially since re discovering his mojo.

I think it might go six but I agree AJ will flatten him. If AJ is in full on seek and destroy mode your prediction could be bang on.

Intersting fight. Agree, AJ SHOULD flatten him, but I'd suggest going full on search and destroy would benefit big Dan. Why get in a gunfight with a gunslinger. Dubois has huge power and if ends up a gunfight it's a coin flip. I'd suggest AJ uses his jab, but aggressively, busts Dubois up, dishearten him and likely stops him after half way. I don't think either have great engines but the prospect of an AJ who has tried, and failed to take Dubois out going into the second half of the fight with doubts in his head is intriguing.

Conversely, I think Dubois only chance, and it IS a chance is to go full seek and destroy, caution to the wind and draw AJ into a brawl. Either man can flatten the other. I think it's a closer fight than many think. ( would AJ have confidently busted up Hrgovic or went for the finish against Miller the way Dubois did?)

....But I aso think AJ is now too crafty to be pulled into a brawl. I'd not be surprised by an early stoppage either way, but AJ must be a big favourite isn't he?

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 27th June 09:38

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 27th June 09:40

Some interesting points. I think AJ's conditioning has improved. It didn't let him down in the Usyk fights, especially the second one, so I think he has a better engine now than past form fairly suggested.

Second Usyk fight AJ was the best version of him I've ever seen!!

[272BHP]

paua said:

Agreed - there's only one WR for the 100 m sprint, high-jump etc. One champ per weight class.

Not a great analogy really.

100M has an Olympic Champion, World Champion and Diamond League Champion etc.

Boxing does not have an objective and simple metric like 100M sprint time either.

[paua]

272BHP said:

paua said:

Agreed - there's only one WR for the 100 m sprint, high-jump etc. One champ per weight class.

Not a great analogy really.

100M has an Olympic Champion, World Champion and Diamond League Champion etc.

Boxing does not have an objective and simple metric like 100M sprint time.

You may have mis-understood, in my analogy there's only one World Record - I don't GAF about the Olympic/ Commonwealth/ Diamond League/ Nation of X, times. Who is the fastest/ jumped the highest/ longest? Who owns the WORLD record?
Who is the CHAMP? It used to be Ali/ Frazier/ Foreman, etc.
I don't want to see 3-4-5 champs from different "governing" bodies.

[juliussneezer]

biggbn said:

I think it's a closer fight than many think....

....but AJ must be a big favourite isn't he?

1/6 Favourite at the bookmakers.

[jazzybees]

biggbn said:

Erm, no. This happens every time we have an undisputed champ, or we'd ALWAYS have an undisputed!! For what it's worth, and not my idea, I'm sure it's Bunce's, I think Usyk should give up all belts but be crowned 'Undisputed' by each of the organisations. The rest of the lack can then battle it out for the belts, but are only allowed to hold a maximum of two, and then they get to fight Usyk for the 'mam who beat the man' all the marbles title. Usyk could fight once or twice a year that way in 'superfights' or defending his 'undisputed belt'....thoughts..?

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

[Unreal]

jazzybees said:

biggbn said:

Erm, no. This happens every time we have an undisputed champ, or we'd ALWAYS have an undisputed!! For what it's worth, and not my idea, I'm sure it's Bunce's, I think Usyk should give up all belts but be crowned 'Undisputed' by each of the organisations. The rest of the lack can then battle it out for the belts, but are only allowed to hold a maximum of two, and then they get to fight Usyk for the 'mam who beat the man' all the marbles title. Usyk could fight once or twice a year that way in 'superfights' or defending his 'undisputed belt'....thoughts..?

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

That would require Usyk to be lying down with his hands tied behind his back wearing a blindfold.

[272BHP]

jazzybees said:

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

It is certainly possible.

Put another couple of years on Usyk and age might hit him.

[jazzybees]

Unreal said:

jazzybees said:

biggbn said:

Erm, no. This happens every time we have an undisputed champ, or we'd ALWAYS have an undisputed!! For what it's worth, and not my idea, I'm sure it's Bunce's, I think Usyk should give up all belts but be crowned 'Undisputed' by each of the organisations. The rest of the lack can then battle it out for the belts, but are only allowed to hold a maximum of two, and then they get to fight Usyk for the 'mam who beat the man' all the marbles title. Usyk could fight once or twice a year that way in 'superfights' or defending his 'undisputed belt'....thoughts..?

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

That would require Usyk to be lying down with his hands tied behind his back wearing a blindfold.

Yes, he will be lying down,
But his hands won’t be tied and he won’t be wearing a blindfold.

[Yazza54]

jazzybees said:

Unreal said:

jazzybees said:

biggbn said:

Erm, no. This happens every time we have an undisputed champ, or we'd ALWAYS have an undisputed!! For what it's worth, and not my idea, I'm sure it's Bunce's, I think Usyk should give up all belts but be crowned 'Undisputed' by each of the organisations. The rest of the lack can then battle it out for the belts, but are only allowed to hold a maximum of two, and then they get to fight Usyk for the 'mam who beat the man' all the marbles title. Usyk could fight once or twice a year that way in 'superfights' or defending his 'undisputed belt'....thoughts..?

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

That would require Usyk to be lying down with his hands tied behind his back wearing a blindfold.

Yes, he will be lying down,
But his hands won’t be tied and he won’t be wearing a blindfold.

Do you believe this just because you've seen him chin a few mediocre opponents?

[jazzybees]

272BHP said:

jazzybees said:

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

It is certainly possible.

Put another couple of years on Usyk and age might hit him.

I think they can fight as soon as next year.
AJ has got his mojo back.
He’s not going to try and outbox Usyk over 12 rounds.
Usyk, over 12 rounds is unbeatable.
His speed and stamina is unreal.
So AJ is not going to mess about,
He’s going to hit him hard and hit him harder again.
And get it over very quickly.

[Unreal]

jazzybees said:

272BHP said:

jazzybees said:

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

It is certainly possible.

Put another couple of years on Usyk and age might hit him.

I think they can fight as soon as next year.
AJ has got his mojo back.
He’s not going to try and outbox Usyk over 12 rounds.
Usyk, over 12 rounds is unbeatable.
His speed and stamina is unreal.
So AJ is not going to mess about,
He’s going to hit him hard and hit him harder again.
And get it over very quickly.

This will age like cheap wine.

I don't think Usyk will fight him again anyway. I don't see why he would and what it would prove. So I'm not going to argue over the ifs, buts and possibilities and will just refer back to your prediction if and when the time comes.

Edited by Unreal on Thursday 27th June 18:13

[jazzybees]

Yazza54 said:

jazzybees said:

Unreal said:

jazzybees said:

biggbn said:

Erm, no. This happens every time we have an undisputed champ, or we'd ALWAYS have an undisputed!! For what it's worth, and not my idea, I'm sure it's Bunce's, I think Usyk should give up all belts but be crowned 'Undisputed' by each of the organisations. The rest of the lack can then battle it out for the belts, but are only allowed to hold a maximum of two, and then they get to fight Usyk for the 'mam who beat the man' all the marbles title. Usyk could fight once or twice a year that way in 'superfights' or defending his 'undisputed belt'....thoughts..?

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

That would require Usyk to be lying down with his hands tied behind his back wearing a blindfold.

Yes, he will be lying down,
But his hands won’t be tied and he won’t be wearing a blindfold.

Do you believe this just because you've seen him chin a few mediocre opponents?

No, of course not.
I believe this, because AJ not only has his mojo back.
He’s got his passion, his desire, a great coach, motivation, confidence, revenge and wants all those belts and “undisputed” and linear titles.
I’m not saying, all that was not there before.
But now, it’s in bucket loads.

Edited by jazzybees on Thursday 27th June 18:16

[jazzybees]

Unreal said:

jazzybees said:

272BHP said:

jazzybees said:

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

It is certainly possible.

Put another couple of years on Usyk and age might hit him.

I think they can fight as soon as next year.
AJ has got his mojo back.
He’s not going to try and outbox Usyk over 12 rounds.
Usyk, over 12 rounds is unbeatable.
His speed and stamina is unreal.
So AJ is not going to mess about,
He’s going to hit him hard and hit him harder again.
And get it over very quickly.

This will age like cheap wine.

I don't think Usyk will fight him again anyway. I don't see why he would and what it would prove. So I'm not going to argue over the ifs, buts and possibilities and will just just your prediction if and when the time comes.

Yes, after beating AJ twice, he doesn’t need to fight him again.
But we know money talks.
After Usyk has fought and probably beaten Fury.
Who else in the world can he fight and get £100 million. Plus the remote chance to be “undisputed “ again.
No one.

[Unreal]

jazzybees said:

Unreal said:

jazzybees said:

272BHP said:

jazzybees said:

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

It is certainly possible.

Put another couple of years on Usyk and age might hit him.

I think they can fight as soon as next year.
AJ has got his mojo back.
He’s not going to try and outbox Usyk over 12 rounds.
Usyk, over 12 rounds is unbeatable.
His speed and stamina is unreal.
So AJ is not going to mess about,
He’s going to hit him hard and hit him harder again.
And get it over very quickly.

This will age like cheap wine.

I don't think Usyk will fight him again anyway. I don't see why he would and what it would prove. So I'm not going to argue over the ifs, buts and possibilities and will just just your prediction if and when the time comes.

Yes, after beating AJ twice, he doesn’t need to fight him again.
But we know money talks.
After Usyk has fought and probably beaten Fury.
Who else in the world can he fight and get £100 million. Plus the remote chance to be “undisputed “ again.
No one.

Re the motivation, Usyk has shown himself to be far less motivated by money than the other players. After the money fighting Fury and the rematch if the big dosser turns up, he will already be fabulously wealthy. It wouldn't be unlike him at all to walk away from £100M. He's 38 I think. Already has nothing left to prove.

[jazzybees]

Unreal said:

jazzybees said:

Unreal said:

jazzybees said:

272BHP said:

jazzybees said:

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

It is certainly possible.

Put another couple of years on Usyk and age might hit him.

I think they can fight as soon as next year.
AJ has got his mojo back.
He’s not going to try and outbox Usyk over 12 rounds.
Usyk, over 12 rounds is unbeatable.
His speed and stamina is unreal.
So AJ is not going to mess about,
He’s going to hit him hard and hit him harder again.
And get it over very quickly.

This will age like cheap wine.

I don't think Usyk will fight him again anyway. I don't see why he would and what it would prove. So I'm not going to argue over the ifs, buts and possibilities and will just just your prediction if and when the time comes.

Yes, after beating AJ twice, he doesn’t need to fight him again.
But we know money talks.
After Usyk has fought and probably beaten Fury.
Who else in the world can he fight and get £100 million. Plus the remote chance to be “undisputed “ again.
No one.

Re the motivation, Usyk has shown himself to be far less motivated by money than the other players. After the money fighting Fury and the rematch if the big dosser turns up, he will already be fabulously wealthy. It wouldn't be unlike him at all to walk away from £100M. He's 38 I think. Already has nothing left to prove.

I can agree with all of that, ( well except for the dosser bit, I’m a bit of a Fury fan).
He has got nothing left to prove.
But for some reason , a lot of boxers always want that last fight.
£100 million maybe to hard to turn down.

Although, if Fury fights Usyk like I’m sure AJ will fight him.
Then Fury could well win the rematch.

[Pugaris]

jazzybees said:

I think they can fight as soon as next year.
AJ has got his mojo back.
He’s not going to try and outbox Usyk over 12 rounds.
Usyk, over 12 rounds is unbeatable.
His speed and stamina is unreal.
So AJ is not going to mess about,
He’s going to hit him hard and hit him harder again.
And get it over very quickly.

I love this line of thinking. Always makes me laugh

Since the first AJ fight, where the narrative was, he needs to walk him down! Use his strength! Use his size! Then he'll knock him out...

Usyk has fought AJ again, Dubois and Fury

None of them have had any success walking him down and bullying him, save for one low blow

Do you think that's just because they are all stupid and had the wrong gameplan, or do you think that MAYBE he's too good to let you do that?

Fury looked like he was having some success for a couple of rounds, then Usyk used how close Fury was getting and staying to bust open his nose in the 8th and have him staggering around Queer St in the 9th, where he could have been stopped

AJ might be able to win a rematch against Usyk (don't see it unless Usyk drops off a bit) but it won't be because he's "got his mojo back" and can just walk him down.

AJ's return has been greatly exaggerated. He looked excellent in the second Usyk fight. Since then, the calibre of his opponents has been the worst it's been since he became British champion and he's obviously looked good as a result.

AJ is a good fighter and he was a good fighter against Usyk. He's just not as good as him

[epom]

jazzybees said:

272BHP said:

jazzybees said:

My thoughts.
Usyk, wouldn’t be defending his “undisputed belts” once or twice a year.
Cos the next time AJ gets In the ring with Usyk. AJ will Win.

It is certainly possible.

Put another couple of years on Usyk and age might hit him.

I think they can fight as soon as next year.
AJ has got his mojo back.
He’s not going to try and outbox Usyk over 12 rounds.
Usyk, over 12 rounds is unbeatable.
His speed and stamina is unreal.
So AJ is not going to mess about,
He’s going to hit him hard and hit him harder again.
And get it over very quickly.

That’s a superb plan. Quite simple too, no point over thinking it

[jazzybees]

Pugaris said:

jazzybees said:

I think they can fight as soon as next year.
AJ has got his mojo back.
He’s not going to try and outbox Usyk over 12 rounds.
Usyk, over 12 rounds is unbeatable.
His speed and stamina is unreal.
So AJ is not going to mess about,
He’s going to hit him hard and hit him harder again.
And get it over very quickly.

I love this line of thinking. Always makes me laugh

Since the first AJ fight, where the narrative was, he needs to walk him down! Use his strength! Use his size! Then he'll knock him out...

Usyk has fought AJ again, Dubois and Fury

None of them have had any success walking him down and bullying him, save for one low blow

Do you think that's just because they are all stupid and had the wrong gameplan, or do you think that MAYBE he's too good to let you do that?

Fury looked like he was having some success for a couple of rounds, then Usyk used how close Fury was getting and staying to bust open his nose in the 8th and have him staggering around Queer St in the 9th, where he could have been stopped

AJ might be able to win a rematch against Usyk (don't see it unless Usyk drops off a bit) but it won't be because he's "got his mojo back" and can just walk him down.
AJ's return has been greatly exaggerated. He looked excellent in the second Usyk fight. Since then, the calibre of his opponents has been the worst it's been since he became British champion and he's obviously looked good as a result.

AJ is a good fighter and he was a good fighter against Usyk. He's just not as good as him

Totally understand what you are saying. Talk a lot of sense.
This debate can only be settled in the ring, if they do fight again.
A few things match my thoughts on why AJ will win.
Yes AJ is a good fighter. Over 12 rounds Usyk speed, stamina and ability to adapt,
Makes Usyk a better fighter, And unbeatable, And yes Maybe he’s too good if the fight goes 12 rounds.
But I don’t think it’s going 12 rounds.
Dubois did put him down. AJ hits harder, has more combo’s, more punches and hits more accurately than Dubois.
You are right, AJ was excellent in their last fight, split decision.
With the new coaching team, and AJ getting back to how he was before losing to Ruiz.
(Or putting it another way, getting his mojo back).
I think AJ will beat Usyk if they ever fought again.