England cricket 2023 & 2024
Discussion
There is a world Cup thread https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Bairstow and Foakes dropped from the Test Team against the WI. Jamie Smith from Surrey is in which looks a good move planning for the Ashes. Usual debate to ensue about whether you play your best keeper regardless. Clearly they have opted not to do that as it considered less of a requirement in English conditions. Robinson may also be dropped with possibly Atkinson getting the nod.
PhilkSVR said:
Bairstow and Foakes dropped from the Test Team against the WI. Jamie Smith from Surrey is in which looks a good move planning for the Ashes. Usual debate to ensue about whether you play your best keeper regardless. Clearly they have opted not to do that as it considered less of a requirement in English conditions. Robinson may also be dropped with possibly Atkinson getting the nod.
Idiots. Discarding Foakes deserves derision. They have been consistent with keeper issue for years the only exception being when they tour India. They want the batting depth which they feel Foakes doesn’t give them. That is their rationale. I haven’t seen Smith keep so I don’t have a view on his capability or otherwise. He plays for Surrey where Foakes does most of the keeping, however his batting in all formats is stronger. Specialist keepers don’t really exist in the world game anymore or if they do they are a rare beast.
Mannginger said:
Smith's been excellent with the bat so far this year, glad he's getting a chance.
Play him as a batsman then. Every other Test team would have Foakes in knowing that he was going to deliver wickets that lesser keepers can't. Ask every bowler privately who they would have behind the stumps and Foakes will be answer too.
The worst aspect of the choice is that it continues the loser mentality that the batsmen can't deliver runs. Batting deep has merit in short form cricket, but in test cricket it's code for our top order are s
te.Leithen said:
Mannginger said:
Smith's been excellent with the bat so far this year, glad he's getting a chance.
Play him as a batsman then. Every other Test team would have Foakes in knowing that he was going to deliver wickets that lesser keepers can't. Ask every bowler privately who they would have behind the stumps and Foakes will be answer too.
The worst aspect of the choice is that it continues the loser mentality that the batsmen can't deliver runs. Batting deep has merit in short form cricket, but in test cricket it's code for our top order are s
te.What is the saying “ catches win matches” and it would follow that you need your best keeper - it is not as if Foakes is a complete rabbit with the bat either.
Bairstow I agree with even as a Yorkshireman!
Leithen said:
Play him as a batsman then. Every other Test team would have Foakes in knowing that he was going to deliver wickets that lesser keepers can't.
Ask every bowler privately who they would have behind the stumps and Foakes will be answer too.
The worst aspect of the choice is that it continues the loser mentality that the batsmen can't deliver runs. Batting deep has merit in short form cricket, but in test cricket it's code for our top order are ste.
Interesting debate and I respect your view because watching Foakes is something I enjoy. To offer a counter argument I would take issue with the fact that every other Test team would pick the best keeper. I would argue that these days they pick wicketkeeper/batsman and that batting proficiency will win most of the time. Foakes loses out there. The other thing to consider is that Foakes’s major advantage is keeping to spin and on spinning wickets. We don’t have those to the same extent here. Standing back he loses a lot of that advantage as long as the selected keeper is sufficiently proficient. There are two ways of looking at batting depth. I don’t know what you mean by loser mentality, that is quite harsh, but yes it does mean more reliance on the top order, or it gives you more quality batting in the line up which is relevant in any form of cricket. There is surely a positive not negative benefit to that, particularly given the overall batting approach that this England team has. The other question is if we are building for the Ashes in Aus how does that reflect on this selection. Just my thoughts.Ask every bowler privately who they would have behind the stumps and Foakes will be answer too.
The worst aspect of the choice is that it continues the loser mentality that the batsmen can't deliver runs. Batting deep has merit in short form cricket, but in test cricket it's code for our top order are s
te.PhilkSVR said:
Interesting debate and I respect your view because watching Foakes is something I enjoy. To offer a counter argument I would take issue with the fact that every other Test team would pick the best keeper. I would argue that these days they pick wicketkeeper/batsman and that batting proficiency will win most of the time. Foakes loses out there. The other thing to consider is that Foakes’s major advantage is keeping to spin and on spinning wickets. We don’t have those to the same extent here. Standing back he loses a lot of that advantage as long as the selected keeper is sufficiently proficient. There are two ways of looking at batting depth. I don’t know what you mean by loser mentality, that is quite harsh, but yes it does mean more reliance on the top order, or it gives you more quality batting in the line up which is relevant in any form of cricket. There is surely a positive not negative benefit to that, particularly given the overall batting approach that this England team has. The other question is if we are building for the Ashes in Aus how does that reflect on this selection. Just my thoughts.
It is a very pragmatic approach to make and if it produces results, difficult to argue against.My problem, as I have argued here before, is that we continue to encourage a culture of runs by any means. When have we consistently had top order batsmen that other teams are scared of? By allowing top order failures to become acceptable, we will never force younger players to come through with the stubborn f
k you mentality that is needed. I want a culture throughout the team that demands the best performance in the world. In every discipline. Batting, Bowling, Fielding, Keeping. Bazball appears to be shock tactics, runs by any means and a prayer that one or two players will perform and deliver a better result than was otherwise expected. I don't see it in its current form as something that Australia, India, South Africa have any reason to be scared of.
It looks like Stokes & McCullum have lost patience with Leach’s inability to stay fit, so have decided to go with Shoaib Bashir, despite him struggling to get a game for his county. Could there be another option though? A proven world class left arm spinner who has every attribute and is widely regarded as the best spinner in the country.
Sophie Ecclestone.
Sophie Ecclestone.
Bradgate said:
It looks like Stokes & McCullum have lost patience with Leach’s inability to stay fit, so have decided to go with Shoaib Bashir, despite him struggling to get a game for his county. Could there be another option though? A proven world class left arm spinner who has every attribute and is widely regarded as the best spinner in the country.
Sophie Ecclestone.
Brilliant bowler.Sophie Ecclestone.
Leithen said:
It is a very pragmatic approach to make and if it produces results, difficult to argue against.
My problem, as I have argued here before, is that we continue to encourage a culture of runs by any means. When have we consistently had top order batsmen that other teams are scared of? By allowing top order failures to become acceptable, we will never force younger players to come through with the stubborn fk you mentality that is needed.
I want a culture throughout the team that demands the best performance in the world. In every discipline. Batting, Bowling, Fielding, Keeping. Bazball appears to be shock tactics, runs by any means and a prayer that one or two players will perform and deliver a better result than was otherwise expected. I don't see it in its current form as something that Australia, India, South Africa have any reason to be scared of.
We agree that the culture should demand the best performance available from the pool of players available. If we have top order failures we won’t win matches end of. In reality how many runs can the team score and to some degree under the current regime how quickly. That will determine selection ie the type of batter they are looking for. So I guess for me then playing the situation is key. It is neither crash bang wallop nor is it having purely a head down approach and I think it is fair to say that we haven’t always struck the right balance. Quality batsmen make the right decisions in the middle and we will judge them on that criteria. I think that we have some good young batsmen and bowlers coming through. They need supporting and given opportunity which I believe we are doing. As always teams are at crossroads out with old and in with the new. We have been both brave and also held onto players for too long. Aus are a good example of conservative selections. In the round although nothing is perfect I am happy with our approach for all its foibles.My problem, as I have argued here before, is that we continue to encourage a culture of runs by any means. When have we consistently had top order batsmen that other teams are scared of? By allowing top order failures to become acceptable, we will never force younger players to come through with the stubborn f
k you mentality that is needed. I want a culture throughout the team that demands the best performance in the world. In every discipline. Batting, Bowling, Fielding, Keeping. Bazball appears to be shock tactics, runs by any means and a prayer that one or two players will perform and deliver a better result than was otherwise expected. I don't see it in its current form as something that Australia, India, South Africa have any reason to be scared of.
Bobtherallyfan said:
Bashir couldn’t get in the Somerset team but England pick him…must be a thing about understudies….
It’s strange isn’t it because neither Bashir or Hartley are getting much game time with their counties which I have difficulty with if they are to be selected for England. Lancs decided on Lyon which is not so difficult to understand 
I know it’s difficult with the timing of county matches in the early part of the season.Bradgate said:
It looks like Stokes & McCullum have lost patience with Leach’s inability to stay fit, so have decided to go with Shoaib Bashir, despite him struggling to get a game for his county. Could there be another option though? A proven world class left arm spinner who has every attribute and is widely regarded as the best spinner in the country.
Sophie Ecclestone.
Liam Dawson, oh no, he plays for an unfashionable county. Sophie Ecclestone.
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