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It’s payback. Visma buried him last yr under constant early pressure, aiming to drain his tank for the back end as they knew he was vulnerable.
This is turn around and him saying “I’m going to put a f
king axe in your head for what you did to me last year!”
Tadej wants nothing more than wholesale slaughter this year.
Of course, repeated dominant performances will only raise more questions…
This is turn around and him saying “I’m going to put a f
king axe in your head for what you did to me last year!”Tadej wants nothing more than wholesale slaughter this year.
Of course, repeated dominant performances will only raise more questions…
ChocolateFrog said:
I'm under no illusion that they're all doping, or atleast most of them.
He's still only 25 too, feels like he's been around forever.
I'd be less certain about that for a few reasons:He's still only 25 too, feels like he's been around forever.
1: In the past everyone (fans, riders, officials) knew that the riders were doping, people were failing tests all the time and we had a fair idea of what mechanisms they were using. It was more of a case that everybody knew but couldn't see a way of stopping it. Today it's a general feeling that they "must" be up to no good but limited actual evidence.
2: Whistle blowers and criminal sanctions, in the EPO era there was an omerta where by mechanics, soigners and team staff were all in on it and were kept from speaking out by fear of the consequences. Post Armstrong if any of those people are aware they can report you and be believed/rewarded, attempts to suppress that are likely to result in teams being closed down and criminal and civil law penalties.
3: The biological passport; it doesn't look for PEDs but the effects of PEDs. It essentially puts PED effects back to the pre-EPO/Blood Doping years where PEDs could be an advantage but not to the point that a cleanish rider can't win.
Based on that:
1: The improved times up mountains are mostly the impact of, incremental training advances, power meters, aerodynamics and most importantly that most mountains are tackled as a collective team time trials rather than old school leader vs leader cat and mouse
2: Most teams are concentrating on "grey" medical advantages (see TUEs), stuff that's not banned or non doping cheating like hidden motors (though that's now difficult at the major races)
3: Doping is now likely done at rider level, I suspect that there might even be a certain amount of "pre doping" where promising riders dope themselves up as juniors where the testing is much less frequent, there is some evidence that you can carry that training advantage for up to a decade. This might also explain why champions are now much younger. However as mentioned before the impacts of doping are limited by the biological passport this might also explain why the performance level is now much more consistent as people essentially dope up to the level of detection in the passport.
WindyCommon said:
JuniorD said:
UAE aren't even trying to hide it. As Sean Kelly said "an extraordinary performance". I'm looking forward to reading their autobiographies in 10-15 years' time. 
.
What aren’t they trying to hide..?. Talksteer said:
ChocolateFrog said:
I'm under no illusion that they're all doping, or atleast most of them.
He's still only 25 too, feels like he's been around forever.
I'd be less certain about that for a few reasons:He's still only 25 too, feels like he's been around forever.
1: In the past everyone (fans, riders, officials) knew that the riders were doping, people were failing tests all the time and we had a fair idea of what mechanisms they were using. It was more of a case that everybody knew but couldn't see a way of stopping it. Today it's a general feeling that they "must" be up to no good but limited actual evidence.
2: Whistle blowers and criminal sanctions, in the EPO era there was an omerta where by mechanics, soigners and team staff were all in on it and were kept from speaking out by fear of the consequences. Post Armstrong if any of those people are aware they can report you and be believed/rewarded, attempts to suppress that are likely to result in teams being closed down and criminal and civil law penalties.
3: The biological passport; it doesn't look for PEDs but the effects of PEDs. It essentially puts PED effects back to the pre-EPO/Blood Doping years where PEDs could be an advantage but not to the point that a cleanish rider can't win.
Based on that:
1: The improved times up mountains are mostly the impact of, incremental training advances, power meters, aerodynamics and most importantly that most mountains are tackled as a collective team time trials rather than old school leader vs leader cat and mouse
2: Most teams are concentrating on "grey" medical advantages (see TUEs), stuff that's not banned or non doping cheating like hidden motors (though that's now difficult at the major races)
3: Doping is now likely done at rider level, I suspect that there might even be a certain amount of "pre doping" where promising riders dope themselves up as juniors where the testing is much less frequent, there is some evidence that you can carry that training advantage for up to a decade. This might also explain why champions are now much younger. However as mentioned before the impacts of doping are limited by the biological passport this might also explain why the performance level is now much more consistent as people essentially dope up to the level of detection in the passport.
On a more serious note I would love to think you are right. Better bikes, tyres etc. Not to mention improvments in diet and legal energy products.
However it being cycling it really is, rightly or wrongly too hard to believe.
S100HP said:
Having been a cycling fan for years, I just cannot accept UAE are clean. Yesterday reminded me of the Gewiss team from 1994. They looked so unbelievably strong. It's a shame, because I want to believe, but I'm too cynical these days.
I had the exact same thought when I saw the four of them cruising up the climbS100HP said:
Having been a cycling fan for years, I just cannot accept UAE are clean. Yesterday reminded me of the Gewiss team from 1994. They looked so unbelievably strong. It's a shame, because I want to believe, but I'm too cynical these days.
Sadly I have to agree with you. There was Gewiss, Mapei and of course US Postal.DeejRC said:
It’s payback. Visma buried him last yr under constant early pressure, aiming to drain his tank for the back end as they knew he was vulnerable.
This is turn around and him saying “I’m going to put a fking axe in your head for what you did to me last year!”
Tadej wants nothing more than wholesale slaughter this year.
Of course, repeated dominant performances will only raise more questions…
I think what you've written there offers more insight into your psyche than it does Pogacar's.This is turn around and him saying “I’m going to put a f
king axe in your head for what you did to me last year!”Tadej wants nothing more than wholesale slaughter this year.
Of course, repeated dominant performances will only raise more questions…
What is the advantage of having your team members in a lead group?
Yesterday the lead group had TP with 4 UAE riders, and JV with just one Visma rider in it. The commentators kept saying about how TP had the extra support and JV had none, which would put him at a massive disadvantage.
But what is that advantage? UAE riders took the front and everyone, including JV, tucked in behind so were all benefiting from the aero reduction more-or-less equally. I can't see what difference it makes who actually takes the front.
What am i missing?
Yesterday the lead group had TP with 4 UAE riders, and JV with just one Visma rider in it. The commentators kept saying about how TP had the extra support and JV had none, which would put him at a massive disadvantage.
But what is that advantage? UAE riders took the front and everyone, including JV, tucked in behind so were all benefiting from the aero reduction more-or-less equally. I can't see what difference it makes who actually takes the front.
What am i missing?
boyse7en said:
What is the advantage of having your team members in a lead group?
Yesterday the lead group had TP with 4 UAE riders, and JV with just one Visma rider in it. The commentators kept saying about how TP had the extra support and JV had none, which would put him at a massive disadvantage.
But what is that advantage? UAE riders took the front and everyone, including JV, tucked in behind so were all benefiting from the aero reduction more-or-less equally. I can't see what difference it makes who actually takes the front.
What am i missing?
There are several reasons, including when your rival attacks it's better for you if your team mates rather than you can chase them down as you can just sit in their wheel. Yesterday the lead group had TP with 4 UAE riders, and JV with just one Visma rider in it. The commentators kept saying about how TP had the extra support and JV had none, which would put him at a massive disadvantage.
But what is that advantage? UAE riders took the front and everyone, including JV, tucked in behind so were all benefiting from the aero reduction more-or-less equally. I can't see what difference it makes who actually takes the front.
What am i missing?
If you have GC quality riders as support, you can send them up the road and force your rivals to chase them down or use them as a bridge. Jumbo Visma won the last Tour of Spain with the first of those tactics
Also if you have a mechanical or need water bottles food etc, if you are on your own you need to get it yourself!!
Edited by Zolvaro on Wednesday 3rd July 14:49
Edited by Zolvaro on Wednesday 3rd July 14:54
boyse7en said:
What is the advantage of having your team members in a lead group?
Yesterday the lead group had TP with 4 UAE riders, and JV with just one Visma rider in it. The commentators kept saying about how TP had the extra support and JV had none, which would put him at a massive disadvantage.
But what is that advantage? UAE riders took the front and everyone, including JV, tucked in behind so were all benefiting from the aero reduction more-or-less equally. I can't see what difference it makes who actually takes the front.
What am i missing?
More riders = more ability to dictate how the race goes and more options.Yesterday the lead group had TP with 4 UAE riders, and JV with just one Visma rider in it. The commentators kept saying about how TP had the extra support and JV had none, which would put him at a massive disadvantage.
But what is that advantage? UAE riders took the front and everyone, including JV, tucked in behind so were all benefiting from the aero reduction more-or-less equally. I can't see what difference it makes who actually takes the front.
What am i missing?
If you are feeling good, you can have your 4 riders set a crazy pace - no-one will be able to attack and anyone who isn't feeling as good will suffer, if you are flying high, you can burn through your riders at a rate you are happy with - wear everyone else down so when you finally attack they are already suffering. You can also throw a man up the road and bridge across.
If you aren't feeling good, you can have your riders set a sensible pace and if anyone attacks, you can use your riders to pull them back. Its also a safety net - get dropped and you have people to get you back on.
Its worth watching the 2 Netflix series too, i wasnt familiar just how strategic this great race is and i hadnt studied anything to do with the Tour before but its really made me interested and more importantly appreciative of how good these riders are.
Great explanations above too. Really opens your eyes to how good team work is.
Great explanations above too. Really opens your eyes to how good team work is.
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