The professional cycling thread

[JuniorD]

tertius said:

JuniorD said:

Talksteer said:

llewop said:

DeejRC said:

Arise Sir Missile!

indeed

But not to devalue it, reading the BBC articles about the honours this year, reminded me that Boardman hasn't had the same recognition - gets a CBE in the same list. There does seem to have been much more gong-giving for those in the limelight in the last decade or so.

I think Boardman is too politically aligned with Labour to give a gong to as he was working for Burnham and spends a lot of his time criticising government policy on cycling.

In terms of absolute success Boardman's titles have been more than exceeded by the cycling knights that followed him and they were also sports personality of the year as well. Boardman's cycling success was in the 90's when cycling was associated with rampant cheating, he's the only participant in the 1998 tour who didn't fail an EPO test either when they retrospectively tested samples once a test was developed or at some point later in their career.

However I'd argue that Boardman's medal was probably the single most significant medal in British Olympic history. Back in 1992 British Olympians were plucky underdogs who came around the final corner in first place before being out sprinted and finishing fourth.

Boardman turned up the best prepared and equipped, made himself the odds on favourite breaking the record multiple times in the heats and then utterly crushed the competition in the final. His training methods were adopted by British cycling and his coach was the first performance director there once they got lottery funding. If he hadn't won his medal it's unlikely that all of British cyclings success would have happened.

I'm sure he'll get a knighthood once Labours cycling policy achieves something.

Absolutely agree with all that.

Bit harsh on the British rowing team who have won (at least one) gold at every Olympics since 1984. (Except Tokyo, where the best result was silver.)

I never really got too worked up about rowing success, unless it was single rower. Britain was an absolute nobody in the cycling world for decades. Boardman broke Britain onto the track scene, and so much developed on from that, with his hand still involved. And he was clever enough to get out before it all turned super-dominant and shady, with the bullying and the special medication and all that.

[tertius]

Leithen said:

tertius said:

Bit harsh on the British rowing team who have won (at least one) gold at every Olympics since 1984. (Except Tokyo, where the best result was silver.)

Coe, Ovett, Cram, Thomson etc might also take exception.

Fair point. Ashamed to have forgotten Daley, my absolute hero.

[andyA700]

JuniorD said:

tertius said:

JuniorD said:

Talksteer said:

llewop said:

DeejRC said:

Arise Sir Missile!

indeed

But not to devalue it, reading the BBC articles about the honours this year, reminded me that Boardman hasn't had the same recognition - gets a CBE in the same list. There does seem to have been much more gong-giving for those in the limelight in the last decade or so.

I think Boardman is too politically aligned with Labour to give a gong to as he was working for Burnham and spends a lot of his time criticising government policy on cycling.

In terms of absolute success Boardman's titles have been more than exceeded by the cycling knights that followed him and they were also sports personality of the year as well. Boardman's cycling success was in the 90's when cycling was associated with rampant cheating, he's the only participant in the 1998 tour who didn't fail an EPO test either when they retrospectively tested samples once a test was developed or at some point later in their career.

However I'd argue that Boardman's medal was probably the single most significant medal in British Olympic history. Back in 1992 British Olympians were plucky underdogs who came around the final corner in first place before being out sprinted and finishing fourth.

Boardman turned up the best prepared and equipped, made himself the odds on favourite breaking the record multiple times in the heats and then utterly crushed the competition in the final. His training methods were adopted by British cycling and his coach was the first performance director there once they got lottery funding. If he hadn't won his medal it's unlikely that all of British cyclings success would have happened.

I'm sure he'll get a knighthood once Labours cycling policy achieves something.

Absolutely agree with all that.

Bit harsh on the British rowing team who have won (at least one) gold at every Olympics since 1984. (Except Tokyo, where the best result was silver.)

I never really got too worked up about rowing success, unless it was single rower. Britain was an absolute nobody in the cycling world for decades. Boardman broke Britain onto the track scene, and so much developed on from that, with his hand still involved. And he was clever enough to get out before it all turned super-dominant and shady, with the bullying and the special medication and all that.

At the time Boardman competed, it was about the dirtiest cycling had been. His gold medal, fantastic as it was, involved some serious high tech engineering, which was light years above the rest at the time. Some of the real greats who have won Olympic gold medals, at the same time as Boardman, or in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's - Ann Packer, Mary Rand, Lynn Davis, David Hemery, Alan Wells, Steve Backley, Daley Thompson, Linford Christie, Seb Coe, Steve Ovett, Sally Gunnell.
We had people winning gold medals in cycling at World Championships, but the Olymics up until 1996 was strictly amateur. Chris Boardman won at Barcelona 1992 as an amateur, he turned pro in 1994.

[Talksteer]

andyA700 said:

JuniorD said:

tertius said:

JuniorD said:

Talksteer said:

llewop said:

DeejRC said:

Arise Sir Missile!

indeed

But not to devalue it, reading the BBC articles about the honours this year, reminded me that Boardman hasn't had the same recognition - gets a CBE in the same list. There does seem to have been much more gong-giving for those in the limelight in the last decade or so.

I think Boardman is too politically aligned with Labour to give a gong to as he was working for Burnham and spends a lot of his time criticising government policy on cycling.

In terms of absolute success Boardman's titles have been more than exceeded by the cycling knights that followed him and they were also sports personality of the year as well. Boardman's cycling success was in the 90's when cycling was associated with rampant cheating, he's the only participant in the 1998 tour who didn't fail an EPO test either when they retrospectively tested samples once a test was developed or at some point later in their career.

However I'd argue that Boardman's medal was probably the single most significant medal in British Olympic history. Back in 1992 British Olympians were plucky underdogs who came around the final corner in first place before being out sprinted and finishing fourth.

Boardman turned up the best prepared and equipped, made himself the odds on favourite breaking the record multiple times in the heats and then utterly crushed the competition in the final. His training methods were adopted by British cycling and his coach was the first performance director there once they got lottery funding. If he hadn't won his medal it's unlikely that all of British cyclings success would have happened.

I'm sure he'll get a knighthood once Labours cycling policy achieves something.

Absolutely agree with all that.

Bit harsh on the British rowing team who have won (at least one) gold at every Olympics since 1984. (Except Tokyo, where the best result was silver.)

I never really got too worked up about rowing success, unless it was single rower. Britain was an absolute nobody in the cycling world for decades. Boardman broke Britain onto the track scene, and so much developed on from that, with his hand still involved. And he was clever enough to get out before it all turned super-dominant and shady, with the bullying and the special medication and all that.

At the time Boardman competed, it was about the dirtiest cycling had been. His gold medal, fantastic as it was, involved some serious high tech engineering, which was light years above the rest at the time. Some of the real greats who have won Olympic gold medals, at the same time as Boardman, or in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's - Ann Packer, Mary Rand, Lynn Davis, David Hemery, Alan Wells, Steve Backley, Daley Thompson, Linford Christie, Seb Coe, Steve Ovett, Sally Gunnell.
We had people winning gold medals in cycling at World Championships, but the Olympics up until 1996 was strictly amateur. Chris Boardman won at Barcelona 1992 as an amateur, he turned pro in 1994.

Obree's engineering was actually superior to the stuff behind Boardman, the Lotus bike and its predecessors had been competing for a few years without much success mostly due to who was riding it. Obree's bike position was much more aero-dynamic which mattered a hell of a lot more than the frame, Boardman's success with the Lotus bike was also mostly due to adopting a much lower and flatter position (initially achieving it with gaffer tape) and then forcing himself to ride there rather than the aero-dynamics of the bike.

In terms of physical ability Boardman was actually pretty special, when Wiggins did his hour run there were some analysis done that indicated that Boardman would actually have pipped Wiggins on the same set up. Boardman is about 70kgs race weight (the same as Wiggins) but he's shorter than Wiggins with narrower shoulders and relatively short legs for his height. Once he gets into a flat back position his frontal area is much less which more than offsets the 10-15W less FTP he has. Modern skin suits, helmets and detail position improvements more than offsets the advantage Boardman had with the superman position.

[Talksteer]

Leithen said:

tertius said:

Bit harsh on the British rowing team who have won (at least one) gold at every Olympics since 1984. (Except Tokyo, where the best result was silver.)

Coe, Ovett, Cram, Thomson etc might also take exception.

Cram never won a gold at the Olympics!

At the 1992 Olympics the UK won 5 gold medals in total (1 in 1996), cycling has won't more than that on its own at the last 4 Olympics. If Boardman hadn't won his gold cycling probably wouldn't have got the lottery funding to the degree it has, also he was intimately involved in the period where British cycling was built into the dominant team.

Obviously Britain has always had some athletes who managed to win championships, but its not like the US, Jamaica or Kenya where one champion retires and the next big thing hops into their shoes. They succeeded despite the system rather than because of it, Linford Christie didn't result in British domination of track athletics.

[andyA700]

Talksteer said:

andyA700 said:

JuniorD said:

tertius said:

JuniorD said:

Talksteer said:

llewop said:

DeejRC said:

Arise Sir Missile!

indeed

But not to devalue it, reading the BBC articles about the honours this year, reminded me that Boardman hasn't had the same recognition - gets a CBE in the same list. There does seem to have been much more gong-giving for those in the limelight in the last decade or so.

I think Boardman is too politically aligned with Labour to give a gong to as he was working for Burnham and spends a lot of his time criticising government policy on cycling.

In terms of absolute success Boardman's titles have been more than exceeded by the cycling knights that followed him and they were also sports personality of the year as well. Boardman's cycling success was in the 90's when cycling was associated with rampant cheating, he's the only participant in the 1998 tour who didn't fail an EPO test either when they retrospectively tested samples once a test was developed or at some point later in their career.

However I'd argue that Boardman's medal was probably the single most significant medal in British Olympic history. Back in 1992 British Olympians were plucky underdogs who came around the final corner in first place before being out sprinted and finishing fourth.

Boardman turned up the best prepared and equipped, made himself the odds on favourite breaking the record multiple times in the heats and then utterly crushed the competition in the final. His training methods were adopted by British cycling and his coach was the first performance director there once they got lottery funding. If he hadn't won his medal it's unlikely that all of British cyclings success would have happened.

I'm sure he'll get a knighthood once Labours cycling policy achieves something.

Absolutely agree with all that.

Bit harsh on the British rowing team who have won (at least one) gold at every Olympics since 1984. (Except Tokyo, where the best result was silver.)

I never really got too worked up about rowing success, unless it was single rower. Britain was an absolute nobody in the cycling world for decades. Boardman broke Britain onto the track scene, and so much developed on from that, with his hand still involved. And he was clever enough to get out before it all turned super-dominant and shady, with the bullying and the special medication and all that.

At the time Boardman competed, it was about the dirtiest cycling had been. His gold medal, fantastic as it was, involved some serious high tech engineering, which was light years above the rest at the time. Some of the real greats who have won Olympic gold medals, at the same time as Boardman, or in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's - Ann Packer, Mary Rand, Lynn Davis, David Hemery, Alan Wells, Steve Backley, Daley Thompson, Linford Christie, Seb Coe, Steve Ovett, Sally Gunnell.
We had people winning gold medals in cycling at World Championships, but the Olympics up until 1996 was strictly amateur. Chris Boardman won at Barcelona 1992 as an amateur, he turned pro in 1994.

Obree's engineering was actually superior to the stuff behind Boardman, the Lotus bike and its predecessors had been competing for a few years without much success mostly due to who was riding it. Obree's bike position was much more aero-dynamic which mattered a hell of a lot more than the frame, Boardman's success with the Lotus bike was also mostly due to adopting a much lower and flatter position (initially achieving it with gaffer tape) and then forcing himself to ride there rather than the aero-dynamics of the bike.

In terms of physical ability Boardman was actually pretty special, when Wiggins did his hour run there were some analysis done that indicated that Boardman would actually have pipped Wiggins on the same set up. Boardman is about 70kgs race weight (the same as Wiggins) but he's shorter than Wiggins with narrower shoulders and relatively short legs for his height. Once he gets into a flat back position his frontal area is much less which more than offsets the 10-15W less FTP he has. Modern skin suits, helmets and detail position improvements more than offsets the advantage Boardman had with the superman position.

I think you will find that the Lotus bike had not been competing for a few years, Lotus only got the licences through in early 1992. Bryan Steel rode the frame in the national championships in 1992, taking five seconds off his 2km time. I was competing in the early to late nineties in road time trials, in the same open events as Graeme Obree and Chris Boardman. In the nineties, Graeme Obree's bike was the one which really stood out. The first time I ever saw a Lotus framed time trial bike was one of my clubmates, who was rather "well heeled" purchased one, complete with Specialised Trispoke wheels - which I purchased from him and still own. I have copied a link to the news about Chris Boardmans 25 mile record in 1993, which clearly shows what he was riding in road time trials at the time.

https://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?/to...

https://www.roadbikereview.com/threads/is-the-1996...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_108

[Don1]

Just for design alone, my dream bike.

[mikef]

I thought I’d mention how enjoyable it was to watch Bury’s own Adam Yates win the Tour of Switzerland, alternating stage wins with UAE teammate João Almeida

Eurosport sadly got taken over by the French tennis then the 24h du Mans, but fortunately l’Equipe streamed the full race live on l’Equipe Live 1

Top performance

[andyA700]

Don1 said:

Just for design alone, my dream bike.

It was indeed a thing of beauty. As well as owning that, my mat also had a BSA DBD34 Goldstar motorbike. He had very good taste.

[Talksteer]

andyA700 said:

I think you will find that the Lotus bike had not been competing for a few years, Lotus only got the licences through in early 1992. Bryan Steel rode the frame in the national championships in 1992, taking five seconds off his 2km time. I was competing in the early to late nineties in road time trials, in the same open events as Graeme Obree and Chris Boardman. In the nineties, Graeme Obree's bike was the one which really stood out. The first time I ever saw a Lotus framed time trial bike was one of my clubmates, who was rather "well heeled" purchased one, complete with Specialised Trispoke wheels - which I purchased from him and still own. I have copied a link to the news about Chris Boardmans 25 mile record in 1993, which clearly shows what he was riding in road time trials at the time.

https://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?/to...

https://www.roadbikereview.com/threads/is-the-1996...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_108

Lotus hadn't been manufacturing the bikes but the Windcheeter Carbon Cantilever (I think Burrows might have been involved in that but it was definitely British) had been going since about 1987 which has basically the same frame layout as the 108 including the underslung handlebars.

If Boardman had swapped bikes with his competitor he'd still have won, no bike is worth a lap in a 4k pursuit, the German bike wasn't exactly primitive either. In fact before the 1992 Olympics the articles were about what a massive advantage the Germans were getting from their superbikes.



You can see from the image that Boardman has a better position with the straighter back, he's also got a more faired in helmet. Jen Lehman's hand position is actually more similar to what TT riders are doing today and of course his East German doping will have been superior.

[andyA700]

I have never seen any mention of Jens Lehmann doping. He is now a politian with the CDU.

[Talksteer]

andyA700 said:

I have never seen any mention of Jens Lehmann doping. He is now a politian with the CDU.

He was part of the East German Olympic team, he'd have needed special dispensation not to dope. No idea of he was doing anything in 1992 as part of the Unified team.

Doping made less difference in 1992 as EPO was rare and everything else doesn't do much for a one off aerobic effort.

[JuniorD]

[Salted_Peanut]

Surprisingly, Geraint Thomas has been dropped from the GB team for the Paris Olympics: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun...

[Sway]

Salted_Peanut said:

Surprisingly, Geraint Thomas has been dropped from the GB team for the Paris Olympics: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun...

Don't think it's that much of a surprise - Giro and Tour then Olympics would be crazy for someone of his maturity.

One dayers are very different from GT stages.

[ArnageWRC]

Salted_Peanut said:

Surprisingly, Geraint Thomas has been dropped from the GB team for the Paris Olympics: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun...

Unsurprisingly, the Guardian doesn't mention the other GB Olympic cycling teams. Whittle forever the road snob.....

[ChocolateFrog]

Cav has gassed already.

Might not even make the cutoff in the first day.

End of a brilliant career.

[S600BSB]

ChocolateFrog said:

Cav has gassed already.

Might not even make the cutoff in the first day.

End of a brilliant career.

Looks unwell and in real trouble..

[snotrag]

ChocolateFrog said:

Cav has gassed already.

Might not even make the cutoff in the first day.

End of a brilliant career.

He's not gassed - he's ill. He is throwing up and vomiting as he rides. It's gutting to watch as even if he can make the cut today (looking doubtful), he's on the back foot right from the start.


Hoping it's just the usual 24hr tummy bug and nothing more.

[ChocolateFrog]

snotrag said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Cav has gassed already.

Might not even make the cutoff in the first day.

End of a brilliant career.

He's not gassed - he's ill. He is throwing up and vomiting as he rides. It's gutting to watch as even if he can make the cut today (looking doubtful), he's on the back foot right from the start.


Hoping it's just the usual 24hr tummy bug and nothing more.

OK. Absolutely nothing to do with being a 39 year old.