The Tennis Thread
Discussion
ViperPict said:
I thought Andy looked more in control in the first two sets. Just physical fatigue really. Those pundits that are saying that Djokovic 'has another gear' etc have got it wrong I think. He just was able to keep up the same standard and Andy couldn't.
Apologies but no.Murray looked stronger in 1st set, especially at baseline....then Djoko stepped it up, took the ball on the rise and played FAR more aggressively than he had been. Nothing to do with fitness.
Djoko's backhand was tight in the 1st, no backswing or follow through, a poke. Playing conservatively...didn't work.
Not so much a second gear but change of game plan. Knocked Murray for 6, head started going a little, and voila.
Nothing to do with fatigue, he is superbly fit, fitter than Djoko IMO. Though mentally he's better (slightly) still a long way behind Djoko.
Djoko puffing like a steam train in first set, but changed his tactic, blasted everything and looked like he he could have gone at end of 4th with no trouble. Top game plan.
Wanted Murray, but Djoko the better player.
Robbo66 said:
ViperPict said:
I thought Andy looked more in control in the first two sets. Just physical fatigue really. Those pundits that are saying that Djokovic 'has another gear' etc have got it wrong I think. He just was able to keep up the same standard and Andy couldn't.
Apologies but no.Murray looked stronger in 1st set, especially at baseline....then Djoko stepped it up, took the ball on the rise and played FAR more aggressively than he had been. Nothing to do with fitness.
Djoko's backhand was tight in the 1st, no backswing or follow through, a poke. Playing conservatively...didn't work.
Not so much a second gear but change of game plan. Knocked Murray for 6, head started going a little, and voila.
Nothing to do with fatigue, he is superbly fit, fitter than Djoko IMO. Though mentally he's better (slightly) still a long way behind Djoko.
Djoko puffing like a steam train in first set, but changed his tactic, blasted everything and looked like he he could have gone at end of 4th with no trouble. Top game plan.
Wanted Murray, but Djoko the better player.
ViperPict said:
I'm sorry but I would argue that Andy was looking worn out in the 4th and 5th sets.
I agree, but that's because Djoko had switched to playing aggressively and was running Murray all over the place. Anyone would have been utterley wiped out physically. He did not lose because he suddenly became tired, he lost because Djoko changed tactics and MADE him run. Big difference. Djoko was hardly sweating at the end.Murray did the same in the first to Djoko, and he was panting and bouncing the ball for eons on his serve to recoup.
Nothing to do with fitness, it's who dominates the rally early and runs the opponent ragged.
Djoko looked like he could run a 10k at the end as he was dominating the rallies early from the second/third set on.
They are both supremely fit, but the point is won often 4-5 balls before the final winner. Djoko built his points well, and continually ground Murray down.
I thought Murray was magnanimous in defeat, spoke well congratulating opponents team and indirectly, their tactics.
Mojocvh said:
I don't think it was just "worn out".
Despite his denials his foot problems ground him down.
But he did good, as long as he puts the failure behind him and looks forwards...
He was holding his arse/ hamstring and grimacing after most points. Noticed when stretching he could barely touch his toes, more flexibility would help a bit.Despite his denials his foot problems ground him down.
But he did good, as long as he puts the failure behind him and looks forwards...
Mojocvh said:
I don't think it was just "worn out".
Despite his denials his foot problems ground him down.
But he did good, as long as he puts the failure behind him and looks forwards...
No, I don't think it was just worn out but he clearly was in sets 4 and 5.Despite his denials his foot problems ground him down.
But he did good, as long as he puts the failure behind him and looks forwards...
The were level pegging in the first two sets and after that Djokovic just seemed the more focussed of the two. Andy's mental attitude has improved (as he clearly should in the Federer game) but still has a ways to go to be at Djokovic's level.
But I don't accept that Djokovic has another gear that Andy doesn't - rather, Andy seemed to drop a gear.
ViperPict said:
But I don't accept that Djokovic has another gear that Andy doesn't - rather, Andy seemed to drop a gear.
He was appeared to 'drop a gear' because Djoko stepped it up, took ball early and became far more aggressive. Look at his slow mo backhand....it was 12-18 inches infront of him when he took it, incredible.I think we will need to agree to disagree....totally.
ViperPict said:
I'm sorry but I would argue that Andy was looking worn out in the 4th and 5th sets.
What 5th set?I'm not sure why all the excuses. Simply Murray came up against a better player that’s all.
Nole is a monster and easily the best player on the circuit at the moment.
Its a very real possibility that these two will meet in all four slam finals this year.
Robbo66 said:
Apologies but no.
Murray looked stronger in 1st set, especially at baseline....then Djoko stepped it up, took the ball on the rise and played FAR more aggressively than he had been. Nothing to do with fitness.
Djoko's backhand was tight in the 1st, no backswing or follow through, a poke. Playing conservatively...didn't work.
You must have been watching a different match from me! Djokovic had all the chances in the first set but just failed to convert any of them; I think the disappointment of that then got to him a bit in the tie-break and Murray pinched a set he'd previously never looked like winning. Conversely, Murray was the one applying most of the pressure in the second set but this time he was the one who couldn't convert and Djokovic ended-up winning it; one set all was about right after two sets but each probably won the one they didn't deserve to win! Once Murray lost the second set there looked to be only one winner; some of that could have been injury related but whatever the reason Djokovic was a worthy victor IMO.Murray looked stronger in 1st set, especially at baseline....then Djoko stepped it up, took the ball on the rise and played FAR more aggressively than he had been. Nothing to do with fitness.
Djoko's backhand was tight in the 1st, no backswing or follow through, a poke. Playing conservatively...didn't work.
Winning in Australia confirms Novak's position as number one and he fully deserves it. However, I've seen another post that says he's easily the best and I'm not so sure about that; Murray has more variety in his game and, while he was beaten fair and square yesterday, I don't think he's that far behind Djokovic. On a faster court I also think Federer can still compete with either if he's playing well; however, there's no doubt that the Djoker is still the one to catch for the moment.
JNW1 said:
Robbo66 said:
Apologies but no.
Murray looked stronger in 1st set, especially at baseline....then Djoko stepped it up, took the ball on the rise and played FAR more aggressively than he had been. Nothing to do with fitness.
Djoko's backhand was tight in the 1st, no backswing or follow through, a poke. Playing conservatively...didn't work.
You must have been watching a different match from me! Djokovic had all the chances in the first set but just failed to convert any of them; I think the disappointment of that then got to him a bit in the tie-break and Murray pinched a set he'd previously never looked like winning. Conversely, Murray was the one applying most of the pressure in the second set but this time he was the one who couldn't convert and Djokovic ended-up winning it; one set all was about right after two sets but each probably won the one they didn't deserve to win! Once Murray lost the second set there looked to be only one winner; some of that could have been injury related but whatever the reason Djokovic was a worthy victor IMO.Murray looked stronger in 1st set, especially at baseline....then Djoko stepped it up, took the ball on the rise and played FAR more aggressively than he had been. Nothing to do with fitness.
Djoko's backhand was tight in the 1st, no backswing or follow through, a poke. Playing conservatively...didn't work.
Winning in Australia confirms Novak's position as number one and he fully deserves it. However, I've seen another post that says he's easily the best and I'm not so sure about that; Murray has more variety in his game and, while he was beaten fair and square yesterday, I don't think he's that far behind Djokovic. On a faster court I also think Federer can still compete with either if he's playing well; however, there's no doubt that the Djoker is still the one to catch for the moment.
As regards Federer, his backhand whilst sublime to watch is a weakness out wide off a kick serve. He chips back mid court and leaves himself open time and again. Players target it.
As regards fitness,watch this space. The next EPO shocker may well come from the tennis circuit. Rumours building.
JNW1 said:
You must have been watching a different match from me! Djokovic had all the chances in the first set but just failed to convert any of them; I think the disappointment of that then got to him a bit in the tie-break and Murray pinched a set he'd previously never looked like winning. Conversely, Murray was the one applying most of the pressure in the second set but this time he was the one who couldn't convert and Djokovic ended-up winning it; one set all was about right after two sets but each probably won the one they didn't deserve to win! Once Murray lost the second set there looked to be only one winner; some of that could have been injury related but whatever the reason Djokovic was a worthy victor IMO.
Thats exactly how i saw it, the first two sets went against the run of play to coin a footballing term. The second nole pulled level only one guy was going to win it.
JNW1 said:
Winning in Australia confirms Novak's position as number one and he fully deserves it. However, I've seen another post that says he's easily the best and I'm not so sure about that;
He's won 5 of the last 9 grand slams. The only other player to win more than one in that time is nadal who's won two both of which are French opens. Id say that singles Nole out as easily the best player currently on the circuit imho.
Robbo66 said:
?...not sure now you figure we watched a different game...having re-read it seems we're both in agreement.
As regards fitness,watch this space. The next EPO shocker may well come from the tennis circuit. Rumours building.
You said Murray looked stronger in the first set and then faded whereas I thought Djokovic controlled most of the first set but was fortunate to win the second!As regards fitness,watch this space. The next EPO shocker may well come from the tennis circuit. Rumours building.
Not heard any rumours on this next EPO shocker, care to give us a clue?
Robbo66 said:
JNW1 said:
Robbo66 said:
Apologies but no.
Murray looked stronger in 1st set, especially at baseline....then Djoko stepped it up, took the ball on the rise and played FAR more aggressively than he had been. Nothing to do with fitness.
Djoko's backhand was tight in the 1st, no backswing or follow through, a poke. Playing conservatively...didn't work.
You must have been watching a different match from me! Djokovic had all the chances in the first set but just failed to convert any of them; I think the disappointment of that then got to him a bit in the tie-break and Murray pinched a set he'd previously never looked like winning. Conversely, Murray was the one applying most of the pressure in the second set but this time he was the one who couldn't convert and Djokovic ended-up winning it; one set all was about right after two sets but each probably won the one they didn't deserve to win! Once Murray lost the second set there looked to be only one winner; some of that could have been injury related but whatever the reason Djokovic was a worthy victor IMO.Murray looked stronger in 1st set, especially at baseline....then Djoko stepped it up, took the ball on the rise and played FAR more aggressively than he had been. Nothing to do with fitness.
Djoko's backhand was tight in the 1st, no backswing or follow through, a poke. Playing conservatively...didn't work.
Winning in Australia confirms Novak's position as number one and he fully deserves it. However, I've seen another post that says he's easily the best and I'm not so sure about that; Murray has more variety in his game and, while he was beaten fair and square yesterday, I don't think he's that far behind Djokovic. On a faster court I also think Federer can still compete with either if he's playing well; however, there's no doubt that the Djoker is still the one to catch for the moment.
As regards Federer, his backhand whilst sublime to watch is a weakness out wide off a kick serve. He chips back mid court and leaves himself open time and again. Players target it.
As regards fitness,watch this space. The next EPO shocker may well come from the tennis circuit. Rumours building.
the 1hbh in general is alway going to be weak out wide esp. shoulder height and above but the advantage of a 1hbh is reach but on these slow courts it is irrelevant thus the dominance of 2hbh which is a real shame, Stan showed how the 1hbh can be used to great effect, Fed still has the best slice in the business if not ever and it can be very effective...
well buttpicker has almost served his silent ban so tell us what rumours you are referring to?
ascayman said:
ViperPict said:
I'm sorry but I would argue that Andy was looking worn out in the 4th and 5th sets.
What 5th set?I'm not sure why all the excuses. Simply Murray came up against a better player that’s all.
Nole is a monster and easily the best player on the circuit at the moment.
Its a very real possibility that these two will meet in all four slam finals this year.
Djokovic was more consistantly good I think is more accurate.
JNW1 said:
Robbo66 said:
?...not sure now you figure we watched a different game...having re-read it seems we're both in agreement.
As regards fitness,watch this space. The next EPO shocker may well come from the tennis circuit. Rumours building.
You said Murray looked stronger in the first set and then faded whereas I thought Djokovic controlled most of the first set but was fortunate to win the second!As regards fitness,watch this space. The next EPO shocker may well come from the tennis circuit. Rumours building.
Not heard any rumours on this next EPO shocker, care to give us a clue?
chippy17 said:
certainly he deserves his no. 1 spot but was it just me that thought it was all rather boring: rally shot, rally shot, rally shot (a lot of these were short and down the middle) then ue, please please speed the courts up a little bit, it is becoming solely about fitness and not about tennis at all, sure Djoker has a great forehand and a great backhand but the rest of his game is frankly lacking, no touch whatsoever, cannot volley cannot smash etc if the surfaces become more homogonised (sp) then you may as well have one surface, it is as much out of balance now as it was in the heyday of s&v
the 1hbh in general is alway going to be weak out wide esp. shoulder height and above but the advantage of a 1hbh is reach but on these slow courts it is irrelevant thus the dominance of 2hbh which is a real shame, Stan showed how the 1hbh can be used to great effect, Fed still has the best slice in the business if not ever and it can be very effective...
well buttpicker has almost served his silent ban so tell us what rumours you are referring to?
I play 1hbh and while it looks superb when it works, I wish I learnt 2hbh form the start. You can play the ball far closer to you, not so far out in front and has a better return of serve....just a safer option. the 1hbh in general is alway going to be weak out wide esp. shoulder height and above but the advantage of a 1hbh is reach but on these slow courts it is irrelevant thus the dominance of 2hbh which is a real shame, Stan showed how the 1hbh can be used to great effect, Fed still has the best slice in the business if not ever and it can be very effective...
well buttpicker has almost served his silent ban so tell us what rumours you are referring to?
I find it as difficult on slow courts as the kick serve grips more and bounces even higher to my 1hbh.
Stan and Gasquet have glorious 1hbh, but the best 2hbh players can simply punch or pop it back far easier off a fast court.
Rumours about EPO on circuit. Been about for a while, but the 'elephant in the room' is becoming too big to ignore.
Robbo66 said:
Rumours about EPO on circuit. Been about for a while, but the 'elephant in the room' is becoming too big to ignore.
Maybe players like Nadal, Djokovic and Murray just work very hard at their fitness and have moved it all to another level; that being the case there's no elephant in the room, just rumours that have no basis in fact. Of course I could be wrong and, as the saying goes, when the facts change I'll change my opinion! Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff