2024 Six Nations
Discussion
u-boat said:
Boom78 said:
It looks like an accurate ranking to me, we’ve been rubbish. For the last 20 years we somehow managed to find decent players, they were naturally talented and driven rather than a product of the regions/WRU. Our club/regional structure has always been this bad, these now retired ‘golden generation’ (hate that phrase) players gave a veneer of success to our structure, we’re now seeing the cold reality. To be successful you need the foundations, governance and finances in place, we don’t have any of these. Totally agree on your last point, the 6N does need a strong Welsh team but it must be earned.
My worry is the talent will be drawn to the school academy structure then whisked off on scholarships to England, it’s already started to happen a bit. I think Gatland was saying on Scrum V the English schools and clubs are paying 15-20k as salaries/annual sponsorships to these players, we pay nothing.
I think you’re right.My worry is the talent will be drawn to the school academy structure then whisked off on scholarships to England, it’s already started to happen a bit. I think Gatland was saying on Scrum V the English schools and clubs are paying 15-20k as salaries/annual sponsorships to these players, we pay nothing.
National identity is far less of a factor for young people particularly sportsmen and even more so when there’s financial incentives to play for a neighbour which you might have reasonable connection to and your own country isn’t doing well or offering the chance of success.
An enjoyable 6N on the whole. As an English supporter there's enough there to be hopeful of the future it will take time though, they saved their worst performance of the tournament for the only game I attended at Murrayfield. They really should of put France away at the weekend but by the same token France could have been out of sight by HT and didn't capitalise on England being sloppy and all their pressure. Most encouraging for me on Saturday was I had the question in the back of my mind is do England have a game in them when they're getting physically dominated which to be fair may only happen against France and South Africa.
Also a shout for the U20 who have some promising talent coming through. France threw some ringers in (they're not actually ringers they qualify but had been playing in the pro leagues and hadn't featured in the tournament this year) and managed to win.
The Irish tour of SA will be interesting, I think generally they've dropped off from where they were 12 months ago.
France have plenty of talent, there's dis-quiet between the clubs and union again without a home RWC to get the clubs to support the national side to the levels of the last cycle.
England, as above-I had bigger question marks over Wigglesworth's experience to coach a world class attack more so than Borthwick. I think this tournament has at least shown than Borthwick is willing to evolve England's playing style beyond what was seen in the RWC.
Scotland. Habitual almost men. I'm convinced despite this being the best crop of players they've had for many years they don't have what it takes to win the 4 or 5 games it takes to win a 6N. That Wales game swang the other way and it would have been a disastrous campaign for them as it turned out. There's not much depth coming through looking at their U20's. They'll always get up for England though.
Italy. If only they'd had beaten France. Good campaign for them though. Doing well with what they have and their U20's are doing well.
Wales. Not much to be added, they should really look to scrap their eligibility rules in the short to medium term. Not sure how they improve the regions other than reducing the number of teams? There's some talent there and with experience will improve. They really need to find a serviceable front row though.
Also a shout for the U20 who have some promising talent coming through. France threw some ringers in (they're not actually ringers they qualify but had been playing in the pro leagues and hadn't featured in the tournament this year) and managed to win.
The Irish tour of SA will be interesting, I think generally they've dropped off from where they were 12 months ago.
France have plenty of talent, there's dis-quiet between the clubs and union again without a home RWC to get the clubs to support the national side to the levels of the last cycle.
England, as above-I had bigger question marks over Wigglesworth's experience to coach a world class attack more so than Borthwick. I think this tournament has at least shown than Borthwick is willing to evolve England's playing style beyond what was seen in the RWC.
Scotland. Habitual almost men. I'm convinced despite this being the best crop of players they've had for many years they don't have what it takes to win the 4 or 5 games it takes to win a 6N. That Wales game swang the other way and it would have been a disastrous campaign for them as it turned out. There's not much depth coming through looking at their U20's. They'll always get up for England though.
Italy. If only they'd had beaten France. Good campaign for them though. Doing well with what they have and their U20's are doing well.
Wales. Not much to be added, they should really look to scrap their eligibility rules in the short to medium term. Not sure how they improve the regions other than reducing the number of teams? There's some talent there and with experience will improve. They really need to find a serviceable front row though.
Alickadoo said:
Mr Magooagain said:
Alickadoo said:
Mr Magooagain said:
Link to next years fixtures!
https://www.six-nations-guide.co.uk/2025/
I see they are sticking to the same stupid kick off times?https://www.six-nations-guide.co.uk/2025/
Starting times seem ok to me. We have plenty of notice to organise ourselves I would say.
Why do we have the odd quarter of an hour kick off time?
"Shall we kick off at 3p.m.?"
'No, that's too obvious, we'll kick off at 2p.m.'
"Hang on, why not make it 2.15p.m.? That will keep everyone on their toes".
'O.K. then 2.15, it is then. What about the evening game?'
"Evening game? Why do we have to have an evening game".
'I don't know. We just do, I suppose it's so that people struggle to get home at that time of night. I gives the hotels some income.'
Right, that's decided then. 2.15, 4.45 and 8p.m., but we will make one of them kick off at 8.15p.m., just to keep everyone on their toes.
With reference to the evening game, many French people work until 7 pm so at least it gives time to get home and have a meal or get to the game after work.
I’m lucky I suppose as I can just adjust whatever I’m doing but it’s not a lot as it’s the time of the six nations tournament so everything else comes second.
Alickadoo said:
Mr Magooagain said:
Alickadoo said:
Mr Magooagain said:
Link to next years fixtures!
https://www.six-nations-guide.co.uk/2025/
I see they are sticking to the same stupid kick off times?https://www.six-nations-guide.co.uk/2025/
Starting times seem ok to me. We have plenty of notice to organise ourselves I would say.
Why do we have the odd quarter of an hour kick off time?
"Shall we kick off at 3p.m.?"
'No, that's too obvious, we'll kick off at 2p.m.'
"Hang on, why not make it 2.15p.m.? That will keep everyone on their toes".
'O.K. then 2.15, it is then. What about the evening game?'
"Evening game? Why do we have to have an evening game".
'I don't know. We just do, I suppose it's so that people struggle to get home at that time of night. I gives the hotels some income.'
Right, that's decided then. 2.15, 4.45 and 8p.m., but we will make one of them kick off at 8.15p.m., just to keep everyone on their toes.
Most of the French clubs ( thanks to the Nazis, believe it or not!) are in the Southern third of the country, and outside the current Olympic cycle the games are invariably played in Paris, so regardless of kick off time, fans traveling up are almost certainly going to have to stay overnight anyway, so they schedule a lot of the test matches for the 9pm prime time TV slot.
Weird, I know, and hardly designed to draw kids into the game, but it does at least mean that if you're going to the ground you can have a decent not-to-early dinner before you go!
u-boat said:
Boom78 said:
It looks like an accurate ranking to me, we’ve been rubbish. For the last 20 years we somehow managed to find decent players, they were naturally talented and driven rather than a product of the regions/WRU. Our club/regional structure has always been this bad, these now retired ‘golden generation’ (hate that phrase) players gave a veneer of success to our structure, we’re now seeing the cold reality. To be successful you need the foundations, governance and finances in place, we don’t have any of these. Totally agree on your last point, the 6N does need a strong Welsh team but it must be earned.
My worry is the talent will be drawn to the school academy structure then whisked off on scholarships to England, it’s already started to happen a bit. I think Gatland was saying on Scrum V the English schools and clubs are paying 15-20k as salaries/annual sponsorships to these players, we pay nothing.
I think you’re right.My worry is the talent will be drawn to the school academy structure then whisked off on scholarships to England, it’s already started to happen a bit. I think Gatland was saying on Scrum V the English schools and clubs are paying 15-20k as salaries/annual sponsorships to these players, we pay nothing.
National identity is far less of a factor for young people particularly sportsmen and even more so when there’s financial incentives to play for a neighbour which you might have reasonable connection to and your own country isn’t doing well or offering the chance of success.
Weird kick-off times can be a TV thing. Most programming runs from the top of the hour or 30 minutes past & as not all countries run 45 minutes of pre-amble it means they can start their programmes on the hour & just have a short pre-match intro before the game starts. I think F1 did the same at some point but it seems to have gone back to on the hour now.
Interesting interview on R4 this morning with an retired Irish player (I've forgotten which one) who although obviously proud that Ireland won back to Championships pointed out their level of play is not where it was 12 months ago and thought that even over the five games of the Championship their level fell off fairly noticeably, in contrast to England who were very poor pre-Championship but very obviously improved through the 5 games and are heading in the right direction.
He had some words of praise too for Italy with their best ever Championship by a margin and thinks they were desperately unlucky not to beat France as well as Scotland and Wales.
He had some words of praise too for Italy with their best ever Championship by a margin and thinks they were desperately unlucky not to beat France as well as Scotland and Wales.
McGee_22 said:
Interesting interview on R4 this morning with an retired Irish player (I've forgotten which one) who although obviously proud that Ireland won back to Championships pointed out their level of play is not where it was 12 months ago and thought that even over the five games of the Championship their level fell off fairly noticeably, in contrast to England who were very poor pre-Championship but very obviously improved through the 5 games and are heading in the right direction.
He had some words of praise too for Italy with their best ever Championship by a margin and thinks they were desperately unlucky not to beat France as well as Scotland and Wales.
Yes the Italians must be wondering how they won 2 and drew on, an still end up 5th. That's a better return of results then Scotland's 2 wins and 3 defeats. They were a gnat's chuff from 4 wins, too. Really, really impressive this year and deserved to be higher in the final table. Team of the tournament for me, and Scotland were the disappointment of the tournament, yet again. Not only that, I think we're the oldest squad now, and are about to begin the decline part of the cycle I think. Without ever having had a peak. He had some words of praise too for Italy with their best ever Championship by a margin and thinks they were desperately unlucky not to beat France as well as Scotland and Wales.
It's really quite depressing how profligate and seemingly unconcerned about it they are - Townsend's comments after the Ireland match were risible - "To score that try and then look like we might score another try, that's all you can ask from your team." Sorry what pardon? You can ask them to score the tries they're looking like scoring, surely, in order to win matches rather than capitulate every f
king time.So my heartiest congratulations this year go to Italy and England - performances and results beyond expectations and all the 'talking down' both teams were subjected to before the tournament. Ireland? Meh. Just a better version of Scotland, flat track bullies. Wales, OK, they were whitewashed, but blimey that's a new, young team, and there is cause for optimism. They'll beat someone next year.
My prediction for Scotland next year is at least 4 defeats - the England run will come to an end, and unless we can hang on against Wales we'll be looking at a whitewash.
I know this going to sound like jock-bashing but it’s not meant to be. It’s genuinely astonishing to me that Scotland haven’t won a tournament since 1999, in fact have never won the six nations as currently constituted and haven’t won a triple crown since that team in 1990.
Notwithstanding the smaller playing base, think of all those great players over the last quarter century and a return of zip.
I’d be livid too with Townsend for not making more of this group if it were me.
Notwithstanding the smaller playing base, think of all those great players over the last quarter century and a return of zip.
I’d be livid too with Townsend for not making more of this group if it were me.
basherX said:
I know this going to sound like jock-bashing but it’s not meant to be. It’s genuinely astonishing to me that Scotland haven’t won a tournament since 1999, in fact have never won the six nations as currently constituted and haven’t won a triple crown since that team in 1990.
Notwithstanding the smaller playing base, think of all those great players over the last quarter century and a return of zip.
I’d be livid too with Townsend for not making more of this group if it were me.
Absolutely - I trudge along to Murrayfield 2 or 3 times a year. This “golden generation” has flattered to deceive. They can pull off a one off sublime performance - although that hasn’t happened this 6 Nations. Notwithstanding the smaller playing base, think of all those great players over the last quarter century and a return of zip.
I’d be livid too with Townsend for not making more of this group if it were me.
Townsend has to shoulder a large portion of the responsibility for that but maybe we also have to accept that this generation isn’t as golden as we were lead to believe. Finn Russell - on his day is a game changer but those days are few and far between, maybe we need a more pragmatic number 10.
We’ve maybe got 2 years left with the spine of this team and nothing is coming through the junior ranks - SRU arrogance and being asleep at the wheel to thank for that. So I’d like to see Townsend gone and at least try a different coach for a final crack at winning something as we’ve got a long barren period coming up. Sadly - this is as good as it’ll get for a while.
Townsends comments before the England game are a big part of why Scotland struggle.
This year was all about beating France & Ireland not Engerland.
He said;
"You’re not really thinking about the championship. We’ll see where we are on Saturday. The full focus is on this game – because it’s our most important game of the season.
It’s the most important game for our supporters and we also play for a trophy in amongst the triple crown and other trophies. But this is one that we’re focused on more than the others. That probably shouldn’t be the case, but it is."
This year was all about beating France & Ireland not Engerland.
He said;
"You’re not really thinking about the championship. We’ll see where we are on Saturday. The full focus is on this game – because it’s our most important game of the season.
It’s the most important game for our supporters and we also play for a trophy in amongst the triple crown and other trophies. But this is one that we’re focused on more than the others. That probably shouldn’t be the case, but it is."
basherX said:
I know this going to sound like jock-bashing but it’s not meant to be. It’s genuinely astonishing to me that Scotland haven’t won a tournament since 1999, in fact have never won the six nations as currently constituted and haven’t won a triple crown since that team in 1990.
Notwithstanding the smaller playing base, think of all those great players over the last quarter century and a return of zip.
I’d be livid too with Townsend for not making more of this group if it were me.
I agree entirely. That's exactly where my frustration comes from. I know it's "only a game", but some of us invest a whole load of heart, time and money in supporting the team, and it'd be nice to have something proper to celebrate once in a while, not just "wEll wE bEaT the EngLiSh". Notwithstanding the smaller playing base, think of all those great players over the last quarter century and a return of zip.
I’d be livid too with Townsend for not making more of this group if it were me.
It's been too long and they need to up their game. We have squandered a decent generation of players, and we're on the verge of losing them - Hogg already gone of course. Russell will be next and he'll have almost nothing to show for it all.
It's not a sense of entitlement driving this, if we were genuinely rubbish and had rubbish players, then that would be a different matter.
towser said:
Absolutely - I trudge along to Murrayfield 2 or 3 times a year. This “golden generation” has flattered to deceive. They can pull off a one off sublime performance - although that hasn’t happened this 6 Nations.
Townsend has to shoulder a large portion of the responsibility for that but maybe we also have to accept that this generation isn’t as golden as we were lead to believe. Finn Russell - on his day is a game changer but those days are few and far between, maybe we need a more pragmatic number 10.
We’ve maybe got 2 years left with the spine of this team and nothing is coming through the junior ranks - SRU arrogance and being asleep at the wheel to thank for that. So I’d like to see Townsend gone and at least try a different coach for a final crack at winning something as we’ve got a long barren period coming up. Sadly - this is as good as it’ll get for a while.
Scotland needs more South African players Townsend has to shoulder a large portion of the responsibility for that but maybe we also have to accept that this generation isn’t as golden as we were lead to believe. Finn Russell - on his day is a game changer but those days are few and far between, maybe we need a more pragmatic number 10.
We’ve maybe got 2 years left with the spine of this team and nothing is coming through the junior ranks - SRU arrogance and being asleep at the wheel to thank for that. So I’d like to see Townsend gone and at least try a different coach for a final crack at winning something as we’ve got a long barren period coming up. Sadly - this is as good as it’ll get for a while.
Legend83 said:
Anyone else unreasonably annoyed that the sh*thouse Ramos was involved in the try of fortune, and then slotting the winning points? Giving it all the big man to Smith, but pulls out of tackles. Had a shocker apart from when it counted.
He hacked it on because he didn't have the stones to claim the ball in case he got hurt. Compare and contrast with Smith.bigothunter said:
towser said:
Absolutely - I trudge along to Murrayfield 2 or 3 times a year. This “golden generation” has flattered to deceive. They can pull off a one off sublime performance - although that hasn’t happened this 6 Nations.
Townsend has to shoulder a large portion of the responsibility for that but maybe we also have to accept that this generation isn’t as golden as we were lead to believe. Finn Russell - on his day is a game changer but those days are few and far between, maybe we need a more pragmatic number 10.
We’ve maybe got 2 years left with the spine of this team and nothing is coming through the junior ranks - SRU arrogance and being asleep at the wheel to thank for that. So I’d like to see Townsend gone and at least try a different coach for a final crack at winning something as we’ve got a long barren period coming up. Sadly - this is as good as it’ll get for a while.
Scotland needs more South African players Townsend has to shoulder a large portion of the responsibility for that but maybe we also have to accept that this generation isn’t as golden as we were lead to believe. Finn Russell - on his day is a game changer but those days are few and far between, maybe we need a more pragmatic number 10.
We’ve maybe got 2 years left with the spine of this team and nothing is coming through the junior ranks - SRU arrogance and being asleep at the wheel to thank for that. So I’d like to see Townsend gone and at least try a different coach for a final crack at winning something as we’ve got a long barren period coming up. Sadly - this is as good as it’ll get for a while.
Maybe England can find a few Filipinos to go along with Smith? Or maybe there a a few more Tuilagis to dig up?Honestly, why do people even make these comments? It's such poor patter.
Based on the majority of international teams, if I was the WRU I’d have scouts across the globe looking for talent, it’s working for everyone else and we need some bigger beef like saffers so why not. However, I can’t imagine many people out there would want to come to Wales right now to stand in the glory of our spoon or to wonder why our most talented youngsters are playing over the bridge at schools like Hartpury or choosing the NFL 
Jordie Barretts sock said:
Mate it was a light hearted comment. He's not a screaming Nazi (or at least I don't think he is).
He even posted a smiling face. Lighten up a bit, eh?
It's the lack of originality that gets me. Come up with something witty and original. This lame arsed line is trotted out every time anyone tries to talk about Scotland. If it's so cool with everyone, let's have "Maybe they need more Samoans" every time England are discussed.He even posted a smiling face. Lighten up a bit, eh?
It's so boring.
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