Moving to Holland?
Discussion
Just wondering if anybody here lives in holland? Mrs went to uni there, and loved it. She says we don't need to speak Dutch because everyone speaks english, and you can work in English. For the record she is a hotelier and I (was in) media sales, but now a cook.
So does anyone have any 'inside' info on the Dutch? We would look at Amsterdam or one of the bigger cities.
So does anyone have any 'inside' info on the Dutch? We would look at Amsterdam or one of the bigger cities.
When I left school I worked on a drilling rig to get enough money for a working holiday in Europe before uni.
My first port of call was Amsterdam. At 18.
Well, I blew all my rig money in 2 weeks and was afraid to go home or call my parents so I had to look for a job.
I needed a work permit so went to the police station where they tried to fob me off saying if I tried to look for work I'd be arrested so I explained the EU rules then the cop totally changed and outlined what I had to do.
Got the work permit and went round every single uitzendbureau (that's probably spelled wrong). The very last one I tried was Manpower and they gave a job working for Commodore.It took me ages to save up enough to move on, I was spending the money as fast I was earning it.
Anyway had a great time, loved the dutch. Everyone shpeaksh good englisshh. Would love to go back and should have stayed there.
My first port of call was Amsterdam. At 18.
Well, I blew all my rig money in 2 weeks and was afraid to go home or call my parents so I had to look for a job.
I needed a work permit so went to the police station where they tried to fob me off saying if I tried to look for work I'd be arrested so I explained the EU rules then the cop totally changed and outlined what I had to do.
Got the work permit and went round every single uitzendbureau (that's probably spelled wrong). The very last one I tried was Manpower and they gave a job working for Commodore.It took me ages to save up enough to move on, I was spending the money as fast I was earning it.
Anyway had a great time, loved the dutch. Everyone shpeaksh good englisshh. Would love to go back and should have stayed there.
I lived in Maastricht for almost 3 years and really enjoyed it. Not sure I would have wanted to stay much longer. You can indeed do almost everything in English, the only one who wasn't so good was the doctor strangely enough. We did find it hard to really integrate with the locals though which is partly why we eventually chose to move on. Do you have any particular questions?
Worked in a town called Wassenaar for 8 months.
They have funny rules on where you can ride bikes, so watch out for that. On the other side of that coin, the facilities for cycling are amazing and you don't need a car to get round most of the time. Same with public transport.
In a nutshell; same culture as over here but everyone is more chilled out and open. You're OH is right about not needing to learn Dutch as they get taught English at school.
Emergency vehicles sound really weird
They have funny rules on where you can ride bikes, so watch out for that. On the other side of that coin, the facilities for cycling are amazing and you don't need a car to get round most of the time. Same with public transport.
In a nutshell; same culture as over here but everyone is more chilled out and open. You're OH is right about not needing to learn Dutch as they get taught English at school.
Emergency vehicles sound really weird
kapiteinlangzaam said:
As an Brit living in NL (also in the area of Maastricht), coming with the attitude of thinking you dont *need* to speak Dutch is, IMO, wrong.
You can definitely live day-to-day life, dont get me wrong. But if you want to integrate, live a *proper* fulfilling life and make friends etc outside the cliquey ex-pat circles then you really should be prepared to get stuck in with the language.
I cant speak for Amsterdam/the Randstad job wise, but down here in the South there are many 1000s of people with the same idea as you with regards to getting a job and living in English, therefore positions are limited and hard to come by.
Its a great place to live, dont get me wrong, but I wouldnt move across here with no firm job offer(s) and no knowledge of the language unless I had a very big cash reserve to sit on.
Taxation and cost of living is generally high. Cars (etc) cost a fortune. Public transport and cycling facilities are good, especially in urban areas. Cheese and wine is cheap! Electric/gas/petrol etc are all much more expensive than the UK (last time I checked).
Exactly this.You can definitely live day-to-day life, dont get me wrong. But if you want to integrate, live a *proper* fulfilling life and make friends etc outside the cliquey ex-pat circles then you really should be prepared to get stuck in with the language.
I cant speak for Amsterdam/the Randstad job wise, but down here in the South there are many 1000s of people with the same idea as you with regards to getting a job and living in English, therefore positions are limited and hard to come by.
Its a great place to live, dont get me wrong, but I wouldnt move across here with no firm job offer(s) and no knowledge of the language unless I had a very big cash reserve to sit on.
Taxation and cost of living is generally high. Cars (etc) cost a fortune. Public transport and cycling facilities are good, especially in urban areas. Cheese and wine is cheap! Electric/gas/petrol etc are all much more expensive than the UK (last time I checked).
I've been in NL about 8 years. I live about 20km from Amsterdam and am married to a Dutch national, can speak and read Dutch myself - writing is a little more tricky as I find the grammar difficult (I have no other language skills other than English, swearing and BS
).Living here I would find it very difficult to get by without speaking or at least reading the language. All of the communication for example from the local council (Gemeente), utilities, tax authorities etc etc are all in Dutch - so you need to understand what they are saying. Obviously if you want to work for a Dutch company - you must speak Dutch.
If you are moving here to live the ex-pat lifestyle, only have english speaking friends, and work where english is the company language then you could get by. But as Meneer Langzaam says, to really integrate, have Dutch friends etc you need the language and understand the culture here.
There a many large international companies here - Amsterdam, Schiphol Rijk, Hoofddorp, Den Haag are the places I would start to look at. Many of the bigger UK recruitment companies have offices here and usually a good place to start - the market is pretty good - depending on your line of business and salary expectations.
Taxes are high and cars are outrageously expensive here because of the high taxes and are generally more expensive to run - again road tax and petrol are both expensive here. Housing in the Randstad (the area between Amsterdam - Utrecht - Rotterdam - Den Haag) is expensive and you don't get much for your money. The positive is that buying with a mortgage you still get tax back against the interest on the mortgage - for the moment at least.
I love living here though. We have a good standard of living, nice people, convenient for travelling to other European countries without flying etc etc etc.
I grew up in the Netherlands and now work here and I concur about learning Dutch. If you do, you'll find it much easier to make friends with local people rather then getting stuck in the (very) insular ex-pat community. It's very easy to stay in that ex-pat bubble and I have many friends and colleagues who have and they spend their lives whinging about how hard it is to integrate and how the locals ignore them!
Learn some dutch and suddenly your neighbours will be friends
There are loads of international jobs around the Hague area (I live in Delft for example and work in Rijswijk, 5km from the Hague) and it's pretty easy to acclimatise to the way of life.
Living here is pretty easy - yes the cost of living is quite high but going out is easy and fun and you don't need dutch straight away or anything.
Come, join us. We have stroopwafels.
Learn some dutch and suddenly your neighbours will be friends
There are loads of international jobs around the Hague area (I live in Delft for example and work in Rijswijk, 5km from the Hague) and it's pretty easy to acclimatise to the way of life.
Living here is pretty easy - yes the cost of living is quite high but going out is easy and fun and you don't need dutch straight away or anything.
Come, join us. We have stroopwafels.
halfpenny43 said:
Exactly this.
I've been in NL about 8 years. I live about 20km from Amsterdam and am married to a Dutch national, can speak and read Dutch myself - writing is a little more tricky as I find the grammar difficult (I have no other language skills other than English, swearing and BS ).
Living here I would find it very difficult to get by without speaking or at least reading the language. All of the communication for example from the local council (Gemeente), utilities, tax authorities etc etc are all in Dutch - so you need to understand what they are saying. Obviously if you want to work for a Dutch company - you must speak Dutch.
If you are moving here to live the ex-pat lifestyle, only have english speaking friends, and work where english is the company language then you could get by. But as Meneer Langzaam says, to really integrate, have Dutch friends etc you need the language and understand the culture here.
There a many large international companies here - Amsterdam, Schiphol Rijk, Hoofddorp, Den Haag are the places I would start to look at. Many of the bigger UK recruitment companies have offices here and usually a good place to start - the market is pretty good - depending on your line of business and salary expectations.
Taxes are high and cars are outrageously expensive here because of the high taxes and are generally more expensive to run - again road tax and petrol are both expensive here. Housing in the Randstad (the area between Amsterdam - Utrecht - Rotterdam - Den Haag) is expensive and you don't get much for your money. The positive is that buying with a mortgage you still get tax back against the interest on the mortgage - for the moment at least.
I love living here though. We have a good standard of living, nice people, convenient for travelling to other European countries without flying etc etc etc.
Are you me? Or am I you?I've been in NL about 8 years. I live about 20km from Amsterdam and am married to a Dutch national, can speak and read Dutch myself - writing is a little more tricky as I find the grammar difficult (I have no other language skills other than English, swearing and BS
).Living here I would find it very difficult to get by without speaking or at least reading the language. All of the communication for example from the local council (Gemeente), utilities, tax authorities etc etc are all in Dutch - so you need to understand what they are saying. Obviously if you want to work for a Dutch company - you must speak Dutch.
If you are moving here to live the ex-pat lifestyle, only have english speaking friends, and work where english is the company language then you could get by. But as Meneer Langzaam says, to really integrate, have Dutch friends etc you need the language and understand the culture here.
There a many large international companies here - Amsterdam, Schiphol Rijk, Hoofddorp, Den Haag are the places I would start to look at. Many of the bigger UK recruitment companies have offices here and usually a good place to start - the market is pretty good - depending on your line of business and salary expectations.
Taxes are high and cars are outrageously expensive here because of the high taxes and are generally more expensive to run - again road tax and petrol are both expensive here. Housing in the Randstad (the area between Amsterdam - Utrecht - Rotterdam - Den Haag) is expensive and you don't get much for your money. The positive is that buying with a mortgage you still get tax back against the interest on the mortgage - for the moment at least.
I love living here though. We have a good standard of living, nice people, convenient for travelling to other European countries without flying etc etc etc.
Completely agree with Halfpenny.
I spent 18 months living the expat life in Mijmegen, working for a Dutch multinational with English as it's prescribed language. Many fond memories, nice place to be, but I struggled to practice the language as everyone there wanted to practice their English. Whilst there is a lot to recommend it, unless you have some specific skills then you'll be far far better off learning Dutch or staying in England.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
troc said:
Come, join us. We have stroopwafels.
and Frikandel, and Viandel, and Fritjes speciale, and Fritjes oorlog, and kipcorn, and hagelslag, and rijstepap, and ontbijtkoek, and Hertog Jan, and Brand, and and and and cheeeeeeeese! ! 
Was born in Nederland and lived there until I was 15. As an English family living in Holland there was always an element of being an outsider, but apart from that it is a much, much better place to live than the UK. It efficient, well run and pleasent place, but you must integrate. The Dutch love tourists and visitors, but you need to willing to become at least part Dutch to stay welcome. Read 'The Undutchables' for a greater, but tongue in cheek, insight into the culture.
I do really miss tompouce, bitterballen and mostly drop (liquorice - the good stuff, not the crap you get here!).
I do really miss tompouce, bitterballen and mostly drop (liquorice - the good stuff, not the crap you get here!).
Long time since I logged in, but had some good laughs about the bitterballen and all
I worked with many expats in the 5 years I lived in Amsterdam. Working in Holland with only speaking the English language, it is possible but you have to stay in places like Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht, etc.
Funny to see many people appreciate Holland. I only started to do that after I worked in the US for longer period of times.
I worked with many expats in the 5 years I lived in Amsterdam. Working in Holland with only speaking the English language, it is possible but you have to stay in places like Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht, etc.
Funny to see many people appreciate Holland. I only started to do that after I worked in the US for longer period of times.
I'm Dutch and the Netherlands are a great country, but I really hate the fact that the climate for car enthousiast owners here is simply very poor. This mostly lies in the fact that the costs for owning and driving cars here monstrous:
- New cars are levied BPM (single time tax when buying a new car, this is tied to Co2 emissions) and VAT (21 percent)
- Ownership costs are driven up by MRB (car ownership tax) which is organised to weight, with small cars being relatively cheap. Diesel also costs a lot more than petrol. For a small petrol car below 1000kg you already pay 20-30 a month. Without driving a single km.
- Fuel is expensive due to VAT and an extra petrol tax levied per litre. When buying along motorways, you currently pay around €1.65 for a litre of petrol. When you find a smaller village pump you can get that down to €1.45 per litre.
- Insurance is not cheap either, but it's okay compared to neighbouring countries. For a relatively sporty car like I own, a Peugeot 206 2.0 16V GTi, with one claim-free year, 25 y old, permit acquired at 18, you pay at least €45 per month with a special policy for college-educated people.
- When living in cities you probably can't park for free but need a subscription at the local council to park everywhere. For the midsized city of Leiden, this is €160 per year.
- All cars older then 3 years have to be yearly checked on a whole list of points to extend registration for another year. This is called APK (translated comes to something like common yearly check). Most cars will pass this, but if something has to be fixed you can expect expensive garage bills since wages are very high here (not Scandinavian high, most definitely one of the highest in West-Europe). A cheap mechanic will set you back €70 per hour including VAT, when you make the mistake of running into an Audi or BMW dealership and fix your car here, it will be easy €110 per hour incl VAT.
- While the fines here are not ridiculously high like in Germany for some offenses, the chance that you actually GET a ticket are much higher since theres speed / red light cameras everywhere and cities like to spend most of their budget on parking cops. Driving 10 kph while flashed by a camera costs €70, going through a red light comes at at least €230. There is radar cameras on all major highways in Randstad, flashing you if your average speed between two points is higher than allowed minus a 5 kph margin of error.
Oh, and NEVER EVER buy a cheap sports car with a BIG FAT engine, like a Ford Mustang GT V8 or Nissan 370Z V6 over here. The car itself costs maybe only 60 grand, but you have to pay more than 50.000 (!!!) euros of the beforementioned BPM tax before its yours making these cars costing more than a HUNDRED GRAND (due to high Co2 emissions). If you like these cars, buy them in Germany and Belgium and run them on foreign plates.
- New cars are levied BPM (single time tax when buying a new car, this is tied to Co2 emissions) and VAT (21 percent)
- Ownership costs are driven up by MRB (car ownership tax) which is organised to weight, with small cars being relatively cheap. Diesel also costs a lot more than petrol. For a small petrol car below 1000kg you already pay 20-30 a month. Without driving a single km.
- Fuel is expensive due to VAT and an extra petrol tax levied per litre. When buying along motorways, you currently pay around €1.65 for a litre of petrol. When you find a smaller village pump you can get that down to €1.45 per litre.
- Insurance is not cheap either, but it's okay compared to neighbouring countries. For a relatively sporty car like I own, a Peugeot 206 2.0 16V GTi, with one claim-free year, 25 y old, permit acquired at 18, you pay at least €45 per month with a special policy for college-educated people.
- When living in cities you probably can't park for free but need a subscription at the local council to park everywhere. For the midsized city of Leiden, this is €160 per year.
- All cars older then 3 years have to be yearly checked on a whole list of points to extend registration for another year. This is called APK (translated comes to something like common yearly check). Most cars will pass this, but if something has to be fixed you can expect expensive garage bills since wages are very high here (not Scandinavian high, most definitely one of the highest in West-Europe). A cheap mechanic will set you back €70 per hour including VAT, when you make the mistake of running into an Audi or BMW dealership and fix your car here, it will be easy €110 per hour incl VAT.
- While the fines here are not ridiculously high like in Germany for some offenses, the chance that you actually GET a ticket are much higher since theres speed / red light cameras everywhere and cities like to spend most of their budget on parking cops. Driving 10 kph while flashed by a camera costs €70, going through a red light comes at at least €230. There is radar cameras on all major highways in Randstad, flashing you if your average speed between two points is higher than allowed minus a 5 kph margin of error.
Oh, and NEVER EVER buy a cheap sports car with a BIG FAT engine, like a Ford Mustang GT V8 or Nissan 370Z V6 over here. The car itself costs maybe only 60 grand, but you have to pay more than 50.000 (!!!) euros of the beforementioned BPM tax before its yours making these cars costing more than a HUNDRED GRAND (due to high Co2 emissions). If you like these cars, buy them in Germany and Belgium and run them on foreign plates.
mpc007 said:
If you like these cars, buy them in Germany and Belgium and run them on foreign plates.
Which is illegal and can result in some rather hefty fines and other punishments.Yeah, owning a (modern, large-engined) decent car in the NL is expensive. You can get around this by driving something older and classic of course which is why I know a number of people running old Porsches (964, 993) and ver few with new ones (which will almost invariable be lease cars anyway).
Moved out to Holland in January of '88 on a 3 month contract - ended up stayed in Assen until 1997 then spent 3 years in Amersfoort.
Fantastic times ! I bought a house that was only a few minutes from the TT circuit.
If you ever get the opportunity to head to Assen for TT week - take it - it's a great 3 nights of partying on the Wednesday to Friday.
As has been said , LEARN the language...I got told I had a Drentse accent when i moved to Amersfoort
Oh and as for driving a car on Foreign plates - you can drive a UK car over there for 6 months when you first arrive, but don't overstay - ask me
how i know this !(The fine wasn't cheap) but in my case worth the risk it as i drove a succession of UK cars in Holland until i got nabbed. Only ever got speeding fines on the Dutch cars i subsequently bought. The rules were far more lax back then.
...and if you like tall blonde females that speak their mind and know what they want......
Left 17 years ago for a year in Saudi before returning home to the UK for a woman - big mistake !
Fantastic times ! I bought a house that was only a few minutes from the TT circuit.
If you ever get the opportunity to head to Assen for TT week - take it - it's a great 3 nights of partying on the Wednesday to Friday.
As has been said , LEARN the language...I got told I had a Drentse accent when i moved to Amersfoort
Oh and as for driving a car on Foreign plates - you can drive a UK car over there for 6 months when you first arrive, but don't overstay - ask me
how i know this !(The fine wasn't cheap) but in my case worth the risk it as i drove a succession of UK cars in Holland until i got nabbed. Only ever got speeding fines on the Dutch cars i subsequently bought. The rules were far more lax back then.
...and if you like tall blonde females that speak their mind and know what they want......
Left 17 years ago for a year in Saudi before returning home to the UK for a woman - big mistake !
What's the cost of living like compared to the UK?
I've done a few short term contracts in The Hague, so know the area a bit, but living in a rented flat and flying home most weekends doesn't really gain a lot of knowledge on living locally.
A job has come up in the department I'm contracting for. I'm quite tempted as it's a decent salary, but would have to cover the Mrs not working for a while as it would probably take an English maths teacher a while to get work here (dunno how often the International school need new people)
So far it looks like car ownership and insurance are high
How expensive is health insurance?
Food/drink prices don't seem that different to the UK to me.
I can look at house prices online easily enough but are utility bills high?
What else do I need to consider?
I've done a few short term contracts in The Hague, so know the area a bit, but living in a rented flat and flying home most weekends doesn't really gain a lot of knowledge on living locally.
A job has come up in the department I'm contracting for. I'm quite tempted as it's a decent salary, but would have to cover the Mrs not working for a while as it would probably take an English maths teacher a while to get work here (dunno how often the International school need new people)
So far it looks like car ownership and insurance are high
How expensive is health insurance?
Food/drink prices don't seem that different to the UK to me.
I can look at house prices online easily enough but are utility bills high?
What else do I need to consider?
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