Mini self centering probs

[blightymam]

Wotchya folks, hope this finds you well!

I wondered if anyone can help please?

3 weeks ago I bought a used mini, less than 8k on the clock, 5 years old from an approved mini dealer. The steering was a bit iffy on the test drive, which they said they would fix. It was light, and also veering to the left.

A week later, paid my dosh, drove it home - the left pull had been fixed but I nearly turned it around and wish I'd had because the steering was incredibly light and it was a bit of a battle to keep the car in a straight line (constant adjustment) and worse at higher speeds. I took it out locally and realised the problem was the car wasn't self centering, at all.

I took it to have the tracking and tyre pressure checked locally, informed the mini dealer all along. Tracking was out on the front two tyres, plus pressure incorrect but fixing this didn't solve the issue.

I took it then to a local garage I trust. They couldn't find much wrong, first check but agreed the steering was bad and probably a bit dangerous at high speeds or icy/wet weather. So I then informed the dealer.

They agreed there was a problem initially, did a wheel alignment (for a 3 door, not the 5 door I have!) last week, returned the car back to me with the issue unresolved. I then had a bit of an argument with them, told them they can have the car back but they were adamant the car was fine. They then agreed to send a mechanic/engineer to my address. So last Friday, took the chap for a spin to show him the steering, he then drove the car and agreed, there was something amiss.

Fast forward to today and someone else from the dealer has phoned me this morning to say all sorted. A few hours later, they phoned again and said done wheel alignment again and there is nothing wrong with the car, never was. I told them to keep the car as not being able to find the cause of it doesn't mean the car isn't working as it should and I will have a full refund. Big argument on the phone and was then told that 'no cars self centre'. All cars will keep turning, even when take hands off the wheel. I actually laughed at this point, then looked up a video explaining the mechanics of self centering, casters etc, sent it to him.. and he phoned me back, still adamant no cars self centre.

The same man who agreed there was something wrong with the car last Friday is now coming tomorrow to drop it off and allow me to take him for another spin.

Am I going bonkers here? I part exchanged my old mini for this one, so it's not like I've never driven a mini before, and plenty of other cars besides - I've never experienced a car that drives like this, where constantly have to adjust the steering as driving and feel not at all in control at higher speeds.

Can anyone advise? I feel that they're taking the mick somewhat. I've already written to mini head office and am looking at chargeback on the debit card I paid with but am very very concerned am going to be stuck with a car I don't trust and been sold a dud.

Thanks folks

Edited by blightymam on Tuesday 17th October 21:16

[Super Sonic]

There talking rubbish all cars should self centre due to castor. It could be a sticky rusty ball joint. I had this once, and a week or so later it sheared off dropping the front of the car on the wheel. I was only doing 5moh in a car park but if I'd been doing 70 on a mway it would almost certainly have caused a serious accident. The car is a potential death trap. The fact they're saying no car centres shows they don't know what they're talking about or they don't care about their customers' safety.

[blightymam]

OMG that is very scary, so glad only in a carpark.

Thanks for your story and response. I just feel like going around in a loop with them and I'm going to be £15k out of pocket. I am in all honesty, astonished that this is the behaviour from an approved mini dealer and their service desk told me these things. I thought buying direct would've been a safer bet. Ha.

I wonder if any other mini drivers have experienced this with their mini's and it's a mini fault?

[stevemcs]

Yes they self centre, well ours does and normally its the wheel geo being out that causes it. Does the weight of the steering change if you put it in sport ?

[blightymam]

Had the wheel alignment checked twice now, apparently, still what they say I will take with a pinch of salt now.

No sport in mine, it's quite basic but was attracted to a car with no lane assist so that won, ha!

Edited by blightymam on Tuesday 17th October 18:34

[Geffg]

With regards to the self centering, are the wheels genuine mini wheels or aftermarket? Just that my dad years ago bought a vw Jetta that wouldn’t self centre and it was on non standard wheels. Garage typically at first said similar, that cars don’t self centre which we both told him they should. Eventually they got a set of standard wheels and replaced them which solved the problem.

[stevemcs]

blightymam said:

Had the wheel alignment checked twice now, apparently, still what they say I will take with a pinch of salt now.

No sport in mine, it's quite basic but was attracted to a car with no lane assist so that won, ha!

Edited by blightymam on Tuesday 17th October 18:34

Matching tyres, not half runflat half standard, not mised on axle. All correct size > Decent brand and mismatched ?

[blightymam]

Geffg said:

With regards to the self centering, are the wheels genuine mini wheels or aftermarket? Just that my dad years ago bought a vw Jetta that wouldn’t self centre and it was on non standard wheels. Garage typically at first said similar, that cars don’t self centre which we both told him they should. Eventually they got a set of standard wheels and replaced them which solved the problem.

Thanks, I am not sure to be honest. I would presume they were original due to the low miles on the car. Ta for tip tho, will ask tomorrow, interesting about your dads and pretty bad another garage, who should know better, said no self centre!

[blightymam]

stevemcs said:

Matching tyres, not half runflat half standard, not mised on axle. All correct size > Decent brand and mismatched ?

They were odd tyres on the front where one had been replaced, so got them to put another new, matching tyre on the front at point of sale, to make sure matching on the axle. All of them all standard tyres, tho they are the eco ones by hankook, which despite being BMW and Mini's first choice, don't get great reviews on a whole. I had considered changing them all but local garage said wouldn't make any difference. Thanks, we thought similar, I checked when I inspected car for the first time.

[Olivera]

We have two Minis of the same generation and suffice to say they both self centre perfectly when lock is wound on and the steering wheel is released. Dealer is full of tosh.

[blightymam]

Olivera said:

We have two Minis of the same generation and suffice to say they both self centre perfectly when lock is wound on and the steering wheel is released. Dealer is full of tosh.

Thankyou very very much, my thoughts exactly and nice to know that it's not a mini thing, as 2 people there have told me. Glad yours are both as they should be!
I even had the theatrics today of how he went to find the same year and model as mine and it drove the same way - as if I believed it! You know what, despite having my old mini for many a year until it wore out, they've completely put me off my fondness for a mini.

[DarkMatter]

Blightyman,

My wife bought a new Mini Cooper 3 door hatch in 2017. I’ve always found the steering to be twitchy and requiring constant small corrections. I assumed it was the electric power steering, I’m used to hydraulic power steering. I’ve never noticed any lack of self centering but will check next time I drive it. The tracking/alignment has never been checked but there’s no abnormal wear on the tyres.

Edited to add:
I drove our Mini after posting the above comment and concluded that self centering is minimal (no pun intended). So maybe “they all do that” but some drivers are more sensitive to it than others, perhaps due to their previous experience with hydraulic power steering or no steering assistance at all?

Edited by DarkMatter on Thursday 19th October 07:49

[blightymam]

DarkMatter said:

Blightyman,

My wife bought a new Mini Cooper 3 door hatch in 2017. I’ve always found the steering to be twitchy and requiring constant small corrections. I assumed it was the electric power steering, I’m used to hydraulic power steering. I’ve never noticed any lack of self centering but will check next time I drive it. The tracking/alignment has never been checked but there’s no abnormal wear on the tyres.

Edited to add:
I drove our Mini after posting the above comment and concluded that self centering is minimal (no pun intended). So maybe “they all do that” but some drivers are more sensitive to it than others, perhaps due to their previous experience with hydraulic power steering or no steering assistance at all?

Edited by DarkMatter on Thursday 19th October 07:49

Thanks DarkMatter,
I've been doing a lot of reading about that and yeah, I am used to hydraulic and the EPS is much lighter by character, less feedback from the road. Saying that, my partner recently bought a 21 plate Seat Leon coz of the ULEZ (thanks London mayor!) which also has EPS and it drives what I call 'normally', I can't really tell the difference from the old steering systems and had to double check that it has EPS. If the mini now requires constant minor corrections to keep in straight then it's really not a car for me.

Would you do a massive fav if can please? If I just nudge the steering (either direction), the car will keep going in that direction if take hand off the wheel, even do a circle. Can you try your Mrs's car and see if it's like that too? I know a big ask, but it seems very extreme to me.

I got it back from the mechanic at the mini dealer 2 days ago. He said nothing wrong with it despite saying there was 4 days previous, but he has made minor adjustments to the toe etc and it is a tiny bit better but still horrible to drive. I still have to micro-manage the steering from the moment I pull out and feel positively unsafe over 35 mph. Am off to test drive another 5 door hatch on Saturday, a year younger than my model but their steering system would surely be the same so I can compare like for like. I was told that the clubman, the countryman and the 5 door sport I test drove that didn't have the same feel was because they were different models, which again sounds like am being fobbed off somewhat.. am waiting for my local garage to send me a report on their findings (they agreed with me), will take to another garage I know around the corner and see if they find the same and I may just have to go back through the card route to get money back.

Cheers again for yours and everyones responses.

[DarkMatter]

Checking the self centering can be tricky bearing in mind road camber and pot-holes but when I replied previously I’d carried out my little test on a motorway and made small turns which would have taken me into the next lane if left un-corrected.

I did drive the car on holiday for a week recently and became less aware or those characteristics, presumably I got used to them. I wonder whether Mini have designed the car this way to recreate the driving characteristics of the original Mini.

[blightymam]

Yeah, I tested ours on a newly built quiet road, so not potholes yet! I found that it didn't make any difference either if steering left or right so no worries with camber. Cheers though, sounds like it's exactly the same as mine.

[blightymam]

Ah, am fed up. Friend of mine has a 3 door, 2015 plate, EPS and his car corrects all the time, even with slight nudges of the steering and at low or high speeds. I can't understand what's going on.

[DarkMatter]

This 2017 Mini is the 7th my wife has owned, her previous one was a 2013 Mini Coupe which I don’t recall as having the same twitchy steering (I assume it had EPS) but that was the R58 series.

None of my experiences solve your problem though. Although you’ve had the wheel alignment checked I wonder whether specialists such as Centre Gravity ( https://centergravity.co.uk/ ) could improve it, or maybe even a software change may improve it? We have a Sport mode on our Mini but that just reduces the power assistance to give a heavier feel, it does not eliminate the twitchiness. To be fair, my wife never complained about the handling but when I pointed it out to her she agreed that she’d noticed it but was not bothered by it as most of her driving is very short distances.

[blightymam]

DarkMatter said:

This 2017 Mini is the 7th my wife has owned, her previous one was a 2013 Mini Coupe which I don’t recall as having the same twitchy steering (I assume it had EPS) but that was the R58 series.

None of my experiences solve your problem though. Although you’ve had the wheel alignment checked I wonder whether specialists such as Centre Gravity ( https://centergravity.co.uk/ ) could improve it, or maybe even a software change may improve it? We have a Sport mode on our Mini but that just reduces the power assistance to give a heavier feel, it does not eliminate the twitchiness. To be fair, my wife never complained about the handling but when I pointed it out to her she agreed that she’d noticed it but was not bothered by it as most of her driving is very short distances.

To be honest, am not happy with it and just want a refund. Have just been to test drive two more 5 door hatch cars, a year either side of mine and neither of them had any problems at all, was like a normal car which I expected. I'm going to have to fight tooth and nail I think. Thankyou for everything and the test drives etc, appreciated.

[Olivera]

Have you tried:

a) Asking for a refund, or
b) Ask to be swapped into another approved used Mini, surely this is preferable to your current iffy one

[blightymam]

Olivera said:

Have you tried:

a) Asking for a refund, or
b) Ask to be swapped into another approved used Mini, surely this is preferable to your current iffy one

Mini refused refund, backtracking on them saying, twice, something wrong and only offered to buy it back after having it for 3 weeks at a financial loss. They didn't actually get back to me with an offer, nor do they offer an exchange. Wish they did!