Views on this Cooper S I've seen
Discussion
Hi
Looking to buy my first Mini and probably either a Cooper S or JCW. This will be a 2nd/3rd car for a bit of fun. Got a wide budget (up to 15k) so can probably stretch to F56 cars but have just looked at a 2009 Camden special edition that has me tempted as its very cheap so wondering whether its worth the risk and spending on it to get it right or just keep hunting and not get a car with obvious problems. Looking for input from those with experience of Mini's.....
Heres the deal:
2009 Cooper S Camden that's done 102k miles and being offered for £3850
Known issues:
- a/c not cold, could be it just needs a re-gas if not any ideas what more expensive repairs might be and cost?
- Don't know if timing chain and adjuster / guides have been repaired replaced so would probably get that looked at given the miles. What cost might that be? Positive is on cold starting it doesn't seem to have bad timing chain noises
- Looks like it may be leaking oil looking under where it was parked. Oil and service light comes up on dashboard but checking the oil via dipstick and it seems full. From experience with BMW's is this just a warning saying it needs a service and oil change and hasn't been reset if it has been done (If I buy it I will a service and oil change done anyway)
- There is a rattle clunking noise from the back. Noticed it most when initially started test drive and there were a few speed bumps in the road, seemed to get better the longer I drove the car but still some noise. Did wonder if it was just the parcel shelf but other thoughts could be loose exhaust brackets, bushes or suspension? Any ideas and likely costs of replacements?
- All 4 alloys are well curbed but I don't mind getting them refurbed or replaced
- At the end of the test drive I also noticed a faint smell or burning rubber when I got out the car. Couldn't pinpoint where it was coming from
Good points:
- I like the colour and the bodywork all looks very good. The interior I also like as its two tone black and white and lightens up the inside nicely. Has all the extra's I'd want expect for SatNav but I mostly use google maps on my phone these days anyway
- Seems to drive well and was a real hoot on the test drive, couldn't seem to fault it much there
Its cheap - but maybe that's the catch!
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Chris.
Looking to buy my first Mini and probably either a Cooper S or JCW. This will be a 2nd/3rd car for a bit of fun. Got a wide budget (up to 15k) so can probably stretch to F56 cars but have just looked at a 2009 Camden special edition that has me tempted as its very cheap so wondering whether its worth the risk and spending on it to get it right or just keep hunting and not get a car with obvious problems. Looking for input from those with experience of Mini's.....
Heres the deal:
2009 Cooper S Camden that's done 102k miles and being offered for £3850
Known issues:
- a/c not cold, could be it just needs a re-gas if not any ideas what more expensive repairs might be and cost?
- Don't know if timing chain and adjuster / guides have been repaired replaced so would probably get that looked at given the miles. What cost might that be? Positive is on cold starting it doesn't seem to have bad timing chain noises
- Looks like it may be leaking oil looking under where it was parked. Oil and service light comes up on dashboard but checking the oil via dipstick and it seems full. From experience with BMW's is this just a warning saying it needs a service and oil change and hasn't been reset if it has been done (If I buy it I will a service and oil change done anyway)
- There is a rattle clunking noise from the back. Noticed it most when initially started test drive and there were a few speed bumps in the road, seemed to get better the longer I drove the car but still some noise. Did wonder if it was just the parcel shelf but other thoughts could be loose exhaust brackets, bushes or suspension? Any ideas and likely costs of replacements?
- All 4 alloys are well curbed but I don't mind getting them refurbed or replaced
- At the end of the test drive I also noticed a faint smell or burning rubber when I got out the car. Couldn't pinpoint where it was coming from
Good points:
- I like the colour and the bodywork all looks very good. The interior I also like as its two tone black and white and lightens up the inside nicely. Has all the extra's I'd want expect for SatNav but I mostly use google maps on my phone these days anyway
- Seems to drive well and was a real hoot on the test drive, couldn't seem to fault it much there
Its cheap - but maybe that's the catch!
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Chris.
The aircon issue could be soething more serious than a regas - the condenser can fail (i.e. split/leak). That was £500 fitted at a dealer, but you can likely do it cheaper.
On the service warning - you can go through the menu and 'ask' the car what is overdue under 'Vehicle Status'. You can also have a look at the service book to see the history (if that can be trusted). It's imperative that oil level is always topped up to avoid issues with timing chain failure (death rattle) and unfortunately it's difficult to get an easy reading from the dipstick without a little effort to avoid picking up oil drawn from the dipstick tube sides. Switching off, pulling the dipstick and wiping, waiting 10 mins and then reinserting and taking a reading seems to work.
Knocking from the back would be a concern and couple be suspension related (bushes maybe?).
Good luck.
On the service warning - you can go through the menu and 'ask' the car what is overdue under 'Vehicle Status'. You can also have a look at the service book to see the history (if that can be trusted). It's imperative that oil level is always topped up to avoid issues with timing chain failure (death rattle) and unfortunately it's difficult to get an easy reading from the dipstick without a little effort to avoid picking up oil drawn from the dipstick tube sides. Switching off, pulling the dipstick and wiping, waiting 10 mins and then reinserting and taking a reading seems to work.
Knocking from the back would be a concern and couple be suspension related (bushes maybe?).
Good luck.
It is but my thoughts are if it only costs £1k-£2k to put right then I have a good little car that I know has had all its jobs done, rather than buying another car for the same total sum that still could cost me more.
What I'm trying to establish is it just £1k-£2k or £7k-£8k. Was hoping some people on here would know what the sort of jobs on a Mini like this could cost. I could live with spending up to around £4k on something like this if that's what it would take to get it in shape.
What I'm trying to establish is it just £1k-£2k or £7k-£8k. Was hoping some people on here would know what the sort of jobs on a Mini like this could cost. I could live with spending up to around £4k on something like this if that's what it would take to get it in shape.
The only other thing to add is the 'death' rattle on these engines at this age. The N14 is a bit notorious with high oil consumption and potential to throw the timing chain.
If you do check the car out, make sure you start from 'stone' cold ( no excuses) an d also check the oil level before that.
I had a 2007 Clubman S, which was fine over five years of ownership. But loved to drink oil.....at approx a litre every 700 miles.
If you do check the car out, make sure you start from 'stone' cold ( no excuses) an d also check the oil level before that.
I had a 2007 Clubman S, which was fine over five years of ownership. But loved to drink oil.....at approx a litre every 700 miles.
2009 will put it on the N14/18 engine, the N18 is the one to go for.
AC, its nearly always the condenser on these, usually just off centre, budget £300 to £400 to fit and gas. It can sometimes be the compressor, mine needed both, Budget £4-500 if the compressor is needed.
Knocking from the back, either drop link or exhaust knocking.
AC, its nearly always the condenser on these, usually just off centre, budget £300 to £400 to fit and gas. It can sometimes be the compressor, mine needed both, Budget £4-500 if the compressor is needed.
Knocking from the back, either drop link or exhaust knocking.
If your budget will go to 15k then avoid the R56 and go straight for the F56. A huge improvement over the older cars, and you get more performance, better interior and better tech.
Should be loads about now, and is the vastly better car.
As many have mentioned already there are issues that you would need to get fixed just after spending 4k on it. AC and Timing chain are expensive to fix, if its low on oil i would worry about the servicing and how its been looked after. Mine is a 2009 N14 and needed valve stems seals doing due to poor servicing and was another £1k on top of everything else.
Also keep an eye out for a mint R53 Cooper S? Might be a few JCW versions around and they are a cracking car. I would suspect the GP cars are out of budget these days,
Should be loads about now, and is the vastly better car.
As many have mentioned already there are issues that you would need to get fixed just after spending 4k on it. AC and Timing chain are expensive to fix, if its low on oil i would worry about the servicing and how its been looked after. Mine is a 2009 N14 and needed valve stems seals doing due to poor servicing and was another £1k on top of everything else.
Also keep an eye out for a mint R53 Cooper S? Might be a few JCW versions around and they are a cracking car. I would suspect the GP cars are out of budget these days,
Edited by Challo on Thursday 19th May 13:37
Actually I agree with Challo above but it all depends how much you want to spend. Each model has merit at the right price tag.
For reference I sold my R56 on for about 9 grand prior to the post Covid car price uplift, but it was one of the best out there with a ridiculously low mileage (sub 20k), 2013, great colour combo, JCW aerokit, JCW Challenge wheels, mint inside and out.
At the time I bought it I could have found an F56 for barely much more, and would plump for one of those now since I would struggle to find an R56 as good as my previous car and the F56 is overall a better car.
For under 4 grand I think R53 with JCW 210 kit or aftermarket pulley and intercooler would be the way to go. 6-7k an R56 N18 Cooper S.
10-15k an F56 Cooper S pref with the 210 Works tuning kit.
But straddling those price ranges an R56 JCW may win you over, and they come in both N14 and N18 flavours (the latter are rare though since they were only made in the last year for the JCW - whereas the Cooper S got the N18 from mid 2010).
So many variables, and depends how you use it and how much money you want sat on the drive in something that may not be used that much.
For reference I sold my R56 on for about 9 grand prior to the post Covid car price uplift, but it was one of the best out there with a ridiculously low mileage (sub 20k), 2013, great colour combo, JCW aerokit, JCW Challenge wheels, mint inside and out.
At the time I bought it I could have found an F56 for barely much more, and would plump for one of those now since I would struggle to find an R56 as good as my previous car and the F56 is overall a better car.
For under 4 grand I think R53 with JCW 210 kit or aftermarket pulley and intercooler would be the way to go. 6-7k an R56 N18 Cooper S.
10-15k an F56 Cooper S pref with the 210 Works tuning kit.
But straddling those price ranges an R56 JCW may win you over, and they come in both N14 and N18 flavours (the latter are rare though since they were only made in the last year for the JCW - whereas the Cooper S got the N18 from mid 2010).
So many variables, and depends how you use it and how much money you want sat on the drive in something that may not be used that much.
Edited by WayOutWest on Thursday 19th May 15:20
Thanks for the input guys and some good food for thought here.
I've now driven a 2017 F56 Cooper S that had the auto box to expand my horizons. It certainly had good power but not sure it felt much more powerful than the basket case R56 Cooper S I drove also it didn't feel as engaging and not sure whether that is due to the auto box or just the roads I was on. The F56 I drove on mostly town roads and some dual carriageways but was around 5pm so quite busy and stop start, which actually is probably easier in an auto. The R56 I drove around lunchtime and was bombing mostly around some country B roads.
Agree the F56 is a class up in refinement and build quality in the cabin but also feels less raw and what I expected of a Mini if that makes sense, also its that little bit bigger and feels compared to R56 but still feels like a small car to me compared to my other drives.
I like to tinker with cars and thought of bringing a basket case back to life is appealing so that was the temptation of that one, but on doing the research I think I'm narrowing down now to a JCW R56 or F56. This will mostly be a play car, a station car for the odd days I need to do that these days and a run around town car as it will be better on fuel than our other cars.
Hopefully trying out a 2011 R56 JCW on the weekend to see what that is like and also looking around for an F56 JCW to compare. I see a fair few of the F56 are auto. I'd like to try both manual and auto as it could be that bit more power from the JCW on the F56 will make the auto seem more appealing to me than it did on the Cooper S.
I've now driven a 2017 F56 Cooper S that had the auto box to expand my horizons. It certainly had good power but not sure it felt much more powerful than the basket case R56 Cooper S I drove also it didn't feel as engaging and not sure whether that is due to the auto box or just the roads I was on. The F56 I drove on mostly town roads and some dual carriageways but was around 5pm so quite busy and stop start, which actually is probably easier in an auto. The R56 I drove around lunchtime and was bombing mostly around some country B roads.
Agree the F56 is a class up in refinement and build quality in the cabin but also feels less raw and what I expected of a Mini if that makes sense, also its that little bit bigger and feels compared to R56 but still feels like a small car to me compared to my other drives.
I like to tinker with cars and thought of bringing a basket case back to life is appealing so that was the temptation of that one, but on doing the research I think I'm narrowing down now to a JCW R56 or F56. This will mostly be a play car, a station car for the odd days I need to do that these days and a run around town car as it will be better on fuel than our other cars.
Hopefully trying out a 2011 R56 JCW on the weekend to see what that is like and also looking around for an F56 JCW to compare. I see a fair few of the F56 are auto. I'd like to try both manual and auto as it could be that bit more power from the JCW on the F56 will make the auto seem more appealing to me than it did on the Cooper S.
My clubman was the N18 and we had (still have) an F57 cooper s auto.
The R series feels more like a Mini, the F series feels more like a BMW. The auto is fine and the F series car feels faster, i'm not a fan of the F series manual gearbox
If you want something fun and chuckable with better steering go for the best N18 cooper s you can find. If you want something more grownup go F series.
The R series feels more like a Mini, the F series feels more like a BMW. The auto is fine and the F series car feels faster, i'm not a fan of the F series manual gearbox
If you want something fun and chuckable with better steering go for the best N18 cooper s you can find. If you want something more grownup go F series.
seajay_uk said:
Thanks for the input guys and some good food for thought here.
I've now driven a 2017 F56 Cooper S that had the auto box to expand my horizons. It certainly had good power but not sure it felt much more powerful than the basket case R56 Cooper S I drove also it didn't feel as engaging and not sure whether that is due to the auto box or just the roads I was on. The F56 I drove on mostly town roads and some dual carriageways but was around 5pm so quite busy and stop start, which actually is probably easier in an auto. The R56 I drove around lunchtime and was bombing mostly around some country B roads.
Agree the F56 is a class up in refinement and build quality in the cabin but also feels less raw and what I expected of a Mini if that makes sense, also its that little bit bigger and feels compared to R56 but still feels like a small car to me compared to my other drives.
I like to tinker with cars and thought of bringing a basket case back to life is appealing so that was the temptation of that one, but on doing the research I think I'm narrowing down now to a JCW R56 or F56. This will mostly be a play car, a station car for the odd days I need to do that these days and a run around town car as it will be better on fuel than our other cars.
Hopefully trying out a 2011 R56 JCW on the weekend to see what that is like and also looking around for an F56 JCW to compare. I see a fair few of the F56 are auto. I'd like to try both manual and auto as it could be that bit more power from the JCW on the F56 will make the auto seem more appealing to me than it did on the Cooper S.
Have you looked at the first gen r53? Great to tinker with, proper raw mini and better engine than the R56I've now driven a 2017 F56 Cooper S that had the auto box to expand my horizons. It certainly had good power but not sure it felt much more powerful than the basket case R56 Cooper S I drove also it didn't feel as engaging and not sure whether that is due to the auto box or just the roads I was on. The F56 I drove on mostly town roads and some dual carriageways but was around 5pm so quite busy and stop start, which actually is probably easier in an auto. The R56 I drove around lunchtime and was bombing mostly around some country B roads.
Agree the F56 is a class up in refinement and build quality in the cabin but also feels less raw and what I expected of a Mini if that makes sense, also its that little bit bigger and feels compared to R56 but still feels like a small car to me compared to my other drives.
I like to tinker with cars and thought of bringing a basket case back to life is appealing so that was the temptation of that one, but on doing the research I think I'm narrowing down now to a JCW R56 or F56. This will mostly be a play car, a station car for the odd days I need to do that these days and a run around town car as it will be better on fuel than our other cars.
Hopefully trying out a 2011 R56 JCW on the weekend to see what that is like and also looking around for an F56 JCW to compare. I see a fair few of the F56 are auto. I'd like to try both manual and auto as it could be that bit more power from the JCW on the F56 will make the auto seem more appealing to me than it did on the Cooper S.
When I bought my R57 Cooper S I looked for a good R53 but couldn't find one and was rather put off by the "wisdom" that the supercharger only has about 100k in it(?), tried an F56 but found it anodyne and settled on the R56/7 with the N18 engine as the best compromise between character and reliability.
IMHO the MINI has got increasingly bland in each iteration but also increasingly well engineered and reliable. If I was buying one as a "keeper" it would be the Mk1 if I wanted one to commute in it would be the mk3. You pays your money...
IMHO the MINI has got increasingly bland in each iteration but also increasingly well engineered and reliable. If I was buying one as a "keeper" it would be the Mk1 if I wanted one to commute in it would be the mk3. You pays your money...
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