N18 engine start-up noise/shudder

N18 engine start-up noise/shudder

Author
Discussion

Mr Peel

Original Poster:

504 posts

129 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
My 2012, 55k Countryman Cooper S has always run faultlessly, although it does use a bit of oil. But now something sounds/feels not right on start-up, especially from cold.

It sort of shudders as it fires up. Generally seems fine after that. My local MINI indy said he didn't know what it was and not to worry. But you can hear it clearly and feel it too. Anyone know what this might be? Thanks

E-bmw

9,976 posts

159 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
Possibly an injector suffering from fuel leakage/fall-back.

Check the oil for diesel contamination, get a good code reader on it to see if there are any pending codes for misfires.

Mr Peel

Original Poster:

504 posts

129 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
It's a petrol mate. No codes showed when my indy plugged it in. Maybe I'm over-thinking it?

E-bmw

9,976 posts

159 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
Mr Peel said:
It's a petrol mate. No codes showed when my indy plugged it in. Maybe I'm over-thinking it?
Sorry, my mistake, for some reason my mind thought diesel.

Shappers24

852 posts

93 months

Thursday 2nd June 2022
quotequote all
Did you resolve this? Failure of the High Pressure Fuel pump can cause rough running on start up.

Ask me how I know…

Mr Peel

Original Poster:

504 posts

129 months

Monday 13th June 2022
quotequote all
Thanks for that. It is still doing it, and sounding worse than it was. I have heard tales of the high-pressure fuel pumps going on these. Time for another chat with my garage...

Mr Peel

Original Poster:

504 posts

129 months

Monday 4th July 2022
quotequote all
Update in case it helps anyone: it was the high-pressure fuel pump. And that means a bill of about £1k at a Mini indy...

The slight clicking noise on start-up got louder over several weeks. Then it developed cold-starting problems, revving unevenly for about 30 seconds and throwing a fault code (restricted power). Much worse if you left it unused for two or three days. Slight occasional misfires too.

Shappers24

852 posts

93 months

Friday 8th July 2022
quotequote all
Did you go ahead and get it replaced? There is a guy on eBay who will refurb your pump if you can get it off and send it to him. It’s 2 o-rings which perish and fail, but mini say it’s a non serviceable part. The cost of the pumps has rocketed in the last few years, they used to be around £300. In the US they had to warranty the pumps for 10 years due to failure, but no such luck with that over here.

I’ve been putting off getting mine fixed… the cars only done 400 miles since MOT in feb 2021. I love my minis but they are expensive to keep on the road…

Mr Peel

Original Poster:

504 posts

129 months

Wednesday 20th July 2022
quotequote all
I had it done. Thanks though: tip might help someone else.

jmar2971

111 posts

159 months

Thursday 21st July 2022
quotequote all
My mini has just had exactly the same symptoms and then after a few days left gave the same EML.
Thanks for the heads up on the eBay guy, sent him the pump Monday afternoon and had it back by Wednesday morning!

Just need to refit now.

Shappers24

852 posts

93 months

Saturday 23rd July 2022
quotequote all
How hard was the pump to remove? Mine needs doing but I’m not that mechanically minded and the thought of messing around with fuel systems terrifies me.

My local Indy mini garage is very thorough and by the book and I doubt very much they’d agree to sending it off to this chap…

Driver101

14,376 posts

128 months

Saturday 23rd July 2022
quotequote all
Shappers24 said:
How hard was the pump to remove? Mine needs doing but I’m not that mechanically minded and the thought of messing around with fuel systems terrifies me.

My local Indy mini garage is very thorough and by the book and I doubt very much they’d agree to sending it off to this chap…
Pay an additional £50 deposit and a small additional charge, and he will send out a refurbished pump. You'll get the £50 back once you return the old one.

If you're needing a mechanic to do the job it saves the hassle of taking the pump out of the car, sending the faulty pump back, leaving the car for a week, then restarting the job. It will be in and out of the garage if you have the pump.



Edited by Driver101 on Saturday 23 July 07:56

Dift

1,624 posts

234 months

Saturday 23rd July 2022
quotequote all
On a scale of how hard the HPFP is to change, I would put it above changing a wheel, but lower than changing brake pads.

Plenty of guides on YouTube, should take 20-30 minutes

jmar2971

111 posts

159 months

Monday 25th July 2022
quotequote all
I agree on the above. I refitted my pump yesterday and I would say even going slow and taking your time the whole job is under an hour (take off & putting back on).

Shappers24

852 posts

93 months

Tuesday 26th July 2022
quotequote all
Thanks all. It’s booked in for an MOT and service as it’s not been driven since last sept when the pump started playing up. Should the garage play silly buggers and insist on installing oem part I’ll give it a crack on the driveway. I’ve had a look at some videos online and the hardest part looks like the removal and re attachment of the air intake!

Mr Peel

Original Poster:

504 posts

129 months

Monday 23rd January 2023
quotequote all
Update on this as it might help others. Replacing the high-pressure fuel pump sorted out the rough running and fault codes, but not the feeling of the drivetrain shuddering on start up. Months later it's still doing it, but hasn't got any worse.

Mechanic now suspects it's the dual-mass flywheel. When it eventually goes that's a £1,700 bill to replace it and the clutch. Does this sound plausible? And why do so many Minis need clutches at relatively low mileages (mine's only on 60k)?

E-bmw

9,976 posts

159 months

Monday 23rd January 2023
quotequote all
Mr Peel said:
Mechanic now suspects it's the dual-mass flywheel. When it eventually goes that's a £1,700 bill to replace it and the clutch. Does this sound plausible? And why do so many Minis need clutches at relatively low mileages (mine's only on 60k)?
Clutches are a wear & tear item, they can last 100k or 20k or even less.

Mrs E used to get 30k out of a clutch before I met her & told her why.

CarsOrBikes

1,142 posts

191 months

Tuesday 24th January 2023
quotequote all
It's never £1700 to renew a clutch and flywheel on a petrol S unless using OEM parts which is pointless when the same parts can be bought in factors, ie Valeo clutch and Sachs flywheel, it's more like ~£1 - 1.1k.

flywheels aren't common at low mileages unless the cars have been launched a lot perhaps, clutches get heavy at lower mileages once several years old perhaps, or can suffer due to some driving styles, not all flywheels need changing when a clutch does.

maybe yours is the flywheel making a noise, I'd want a good listen though before saying it's likely

the most common rattle on start up is usually chain slap or Vanos noise

CoolHands

19,451 posts

202 months

Tuesday 24th January 2023
quotequote all
I had clutch + dmf fitted for £815. (Clutch Valeo dmf GAT by Sachs).

The original dmf was utterly shagged so you do need to change it at same time. Mileage was 55,000.

E-bmw

9,976 posts

159 months

Tuesday 24th January 2023
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
The original dmf was utterly shagged so you do need to change it at same time. Mileage was 55,000.
As per Carsorbikes above it isn't always necessary to do both if the DMF is OK, I get that it makes sense if there is any doubt, but it doesn't necessarily follow.

Unfortunately the damage caused to clutch & flywheel is caused by opposite driving styles, so you can be kind to one or the other or drive normally & likely wear both together.

As in:

Slipping the clutch is kind to the DMF & hard on the friction plate.

Dumping the clutch is hard on the DMF & easy on the friction plate.

The sweet spot between the 2 will do both just as hard as each other.