Low rev judder - Paceman Cooper S
Discussion
Hello 
Picked up a 2013 Paceman Cooper S the other day, all was perfect on the test drive but on the drive home it developed a slight judder felt through the whole car when pulling away in first, and when accelerating from around idle in other gears.
Initially I thought clutch or friction plate, but was dubious as there was no slip and changing gear felt fine and so did the bite point. Every now and again in these situations it sounds as if there is some sort of rattle, but it's not every time.
To add insult to injury the fuel light came on today and the car went into limp mode! I topped it up to see if that cured it and it did, which made me think this is potentially a fuel pump issue at low revs...
Complete speculation as I'm no mechanic, so does anyone else have a clue?!
Any ideas appreciated
Picked up a 2013 Paceman Cooper S the other day, all was perfect on the test drive but on the drive home it developed a slight judder felt through the whole car when pulling away in first, and when accelerating from around idle in other gears.
Initially I thought clutch or friction plate, but was dubious as there was no slip and changing gear felt fine and so did the bite point. Every now and again in these situations it sounds as if there is some sort of rattle, but it's not every time.
To add insult to injury the fuel light came on today and the car went into limp mode! I topped it up to see if that cured it and it did, which made me think this is potentially a fuel pump issue at low revs...
Complete speculation as I'm no mechanic, so does anyone else have a clue?!
Any ideas appreciated
Fuel pump issue at low revs makes no sense at all, the pump is electrically driven & with less load on the engine there will not be less fuel, if anything there would be more than enough.
What makes you say it "went into limp mode" is there an engine management light on?
At what revs is the vibration felt?
Is it the same revs in other gears?
Could be many things - engine mount, misfire, DMF, drive shaft to name but a few.
What makes you say it "went into limp mode" is there an engine management light on?
At what revs is the vibration felt?
Is it the same revs in other gears?
Could be many things - engine mount, misfire, DMF, drive shaft to name but a few.
Good to know! As said I'm no mechanic, so completely guessing and the low fuel level combined with engine management light pushed me that way 
Yep engine management light came on (see below warning). It didn't feel any less powerful though, although needless to say I didn't test full power. The engine light came on a moment ago (no low fuel this time) , but when switched off and back on it goes away.
Judder is felt anywhere from idle up to about 1500rpm where it starts to die down a bit.
Yep engine management light came on (see below warning). It didn't feel any less powerful though, although needless to say I didn't test full power. The engine light came on a moment ago (no low fuel this time) , but when switched off and back on it goes away.
Judder is felt anywhere from idle up to about 1500rpm where it starts to die down a bit.
HPFP on these is a known issue. If you google a bit about it (I have the same car) it's a common-ish fault and not cheap.
Ref the juddering pulling away, I have concluded, to some extent, that it's a case of 'they all do that sir' even when nothing is broken. They're not the easiest cars to pull off in, the clutch bite point seems tiny so you have to slip the clutch a lot longer than any other cars I've driven.
Ref the juddering pulling away, I have concluded, to some extent, that it's a case of 'they all do that sir' even when nothing is broken. They're not the easiest cars to pull off in, the clutch bite point seems tiny so you have to slip the clutch a lot longer than any other cars I've driven.
I'd be more inclined to accept that they all do it if it was like it from the get go! was all perfectly smooth until I hit some stand still traffic for the first time, then for some reason the judder kicked in. And a grindy/rattly sound every so often.
I'll have to get it booked in to see if we can find the issue....
was all perfectly smooth until I hit some stand still traffic for the first time, then for some reason the judder kicked in. And a grindy/rattly sound every so often.I'll have to get it booked in to see if we can find the issue....
The latter bit doesn't sound right.
FWIW I've had mine looked at by 3 different places under warranty from the garage and none can either replicate the thing I complain about, or find any fault at all when they drive it, so I've concluded they they're just a bit 'jumpy pulling away sometimes. I have found that they're the type of car that when you change gear, you just leave the throttle alone and just come off throttle, clutch in, change gear, clutch out, back on throttle. Trying to smooth the change out by using the throttle ends up making it not as smooth.
I'm still not convinced when it's cooler that there isn't some sort of fuelling issue but since I've had it remapped (touch wood) its been much better.
The rattle could be the camchain tensioner. That's another common fault. Google 'Death rattle mini N18 egine'
FWIW I've had mine looked at by 3 different places under warranty from the garage and none can either replicate the thing I complain about, or find any fault at all when they drive it, so I've concluded they they're just a bit 'jumpy pulling away sometimes. I have found that they're the type of car that when you change gear, you just leave the throttle alone and just come off throttle, clutch in, change gear, clutch out, back on throttle. Trying to smooth the change out by using the throttle ends up making it not as smooth.
I'm still not convinced when it's cooler that there isn't some sort of fuelling issue but since I've had it remapped (touch wood) its been much better.
The rattle could be the camchain tensioner. That's another common fault. Google 'Death rattle mini N18 egine'
My countryman Cooper S is similar from
Cold start, a real pain to reverse as revs seems to just die. Seems to be better if you don’t use accelerator and let the car anti stall hold the engine speed steady.
I am worried it’s high pressure fuel pump or maybe even carbon build up on the intake valves
Cold start, a real pain to reverse as revs seems to just die. Seems to be better if you don’t use accelerator and let the car anti stall hold the engine speed steady.
I am worried it’s high pressure fuel pump or maybe even carbon build up on the intake valves
JonnyVTEC said:
My countryman Cooper S is similar from
Cold start, a real pain to reverse as revs seems to just die. Seems to be better if you don’t use accelerator and let the car anti stall hold the engine speed steady.
s
YES! Cold start, a real pain to reverse as revs seems to just die. Seems to be better if you don’t use accelerator and let the car anti stall hold the engine speed steady.
s
They all do that mate. Thank god someone else has this. I reverse off my drive with no throttle as it seems to die, put it into 1st and the revs just take ages to build, you can't pull away sharpish. Never had a car that did this. It definitely seems that the anti stall that blips the throttle when you release the clutch seems to conflict with the accelerator input......
The rest of the time is fine. Had it like this for over a year, hasn't got any worse, no faults so I've concluded they're just like that.
To throw a slightly different angle at it... it does sound like your HPFP.
I own an R60 2010 Countryman Cooper S (2WD). Had covered about 55k miles last summer.
I used to be a fan of running it on fumes, seeing as the max I get is about 320 miles to a tank.
Last summer, I got the EML and the limp home mode. Clearing the code seemed OK for a bit, but I needed the car for work and couldn't risk it. A few times earlier that year, I'd started it up, and had to put the throttle down as the car was struggling to stay above idle.
Changed the HPFP myself (£360 of part from neobros mini, with a 10% eBay discount code) and the issue hasn't come back since.
The only ongoing 'issues' I have are:
1) Sometimes it idles a little high and sounds a bit rough/rich - once the car has been blipped past 3k RPM once, that goes away. Don't know if it's something turbo related
2) When it's winter - I get some really bad rattles when pulling away at low revs.
Car has been absolutely fine otherwise in the 5 years I owned it. I paid for a walnut shell blast at a BMW dealer when I first got it, which was known to affect the older N14 engines, but this n18 wasn't particularly coked up. Was hoping that would have cleared issue #1 though.
The only other thing that can really affect the idle on these N18s, there is a diaphragm under the rocker cover that eventually tears. The part isn't meant to be user replaceable. You can get them on Amazon for about a tenner, but I found after replacing it, the car ran like crap and I went back to the original (wasn't torn). £200 for a new rocker cover which I don't really feel like spending.
I own an R60 2010 Countryman Cooper S (2WD). Had covered about 55k miles last summer.
I used to be a fan of running it on fumes, seeing as the max I get is about 320 miles to a tank.
Last summer, I got the EML and the limp home mode. Clearing the code seemed OK for a bit, but I needed the car for work and couldn't risk it. A few times earlier that year, I'd started it up, and had to put the throttle down as the car was struggling to stay above idle.
Changed the HPFP myself (£360 of part from neobros mini, with a 10% eBay discount code) and the issue hasn't come back since.
The only ongoing 'issues' I have are:
1) Sometimes it idles a little high and sounds a bit rough/rich - once the car has been blipped past 3k RPM once, that goes away. Don't know if it's something turbo related
2) When it's winter - I get some really bad rattles when pulling away at low revs.
Car has been absolutely fine otherwise in the 5 years I owned it. I paid for a walnut shell blast at a BMW dealer when I first got it, which was known to affect the older N14 engines, but this n18 wasn't particularly coked up. Was hoping that would have cleared issue #1 though.
The only other thing that can really affect the idle on these N18s, there is a diaphragm under the rocker cover that eventually tears. The part isn't meant to be user replaceable. You can get them on Amazon for about a tenner, but I found after replacing it, the car ran like crap and I went back to the original (wasn't torn). £200 for a new rocker cover which I don't really feel like spending.
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