Choosing a remap company

[TimmyMallett]

Could do with some help!

I'm after a stage 1 remap on a n18 cooper s, so I thought it might be simple, but I might be over analysing this so bear with.....

There are various solutions that I can figure:

Self install via an obd tool such as trutune. £500. Gets you a device you can upload your own map and it updates but from what I can tell it's just a standard set of maps that is exchanged. Your map it downloads from your car is the stock map, it doesn't get any other diagnostic information that is specific to your car so therefore they just sent you what I might refer to as a 'generic'map for an n18 engine and I cant see how it would be tailored in any way truetune SA Tuning's truly unique OBD personal remapping tool - SA Tuning Remap | Chip Tuning | Engine Tuning | DPF removal | EGR delete


Franchise or mobile mapping company installs at the garage they work with or your home. Again, as above, it's static install so no actual reference rolling road data enabling it to be 'tailored'. This can vary, I've currently got 2 quotes, one at £350 and one at £250. Both seem to know what they're talking about but as a consumer, I have no idea what the difference will be, as both are claiming pretty much the same outputs (about +21 Bhp and 60lbsft torque)


Rolling road mapping. £500. Seems overkill for a stage one with no mods other than a panel filter and I'm not going further than stage 1, this is a low cost exercise in making it a bit more fun



Thoughts welcome! I can name the companies (one is above) but neither seem dodgy blokes in vans, they seem pretty reputable. All things being equal (how can I tell) I'd would go for the cheapest, but I've always been an advocate of buy cheap buy twice, but if it's the same.....

[E-bmw]

IMHO the only way if it is a "keeper" is go with a specialist company that does a full rolling road tune.

You say it seems a bit extreme for a stage 1 tune with no intention of going further, but what if that generic tune is done without pre-checks & assessment of how YOUR engine is working?

The possibilities are endless and most head in the direction of shortening the life of the engine.

Your money - your engine, which would you rather?

[TimmyMallett]

The car in itself is absolutely fine as it's been in to an indie specialist this week to fix a fault (new plugs and coil packs, and it's even had its inlet checked for carbon build up) and only 40k on the clock so I know its health is ok. I'm just trying to work out if the 100% increase is really worth it. I'm not after peak figures, it needs to be a reliable map.

[Olas]

Individual calibration on a rolling road is the only way to do it.

uploading a generic map that is not specific to your car/engine/modifications is the same as buying a one-size-fits-all tuxedo in that you're still wearing a tux, but it's simply not good enough for anybody who actually cares about it.

For pedantry, Haltech is the most technically accurate answer to your question aswell as being the option you are least likely to pick.

[BIRMA]

I've been running a Celtic re-map on my Mini Clubvan diesel for over a year now. No complaints whatsoever and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

[paultownsend]

I think, with my limited knowledge, that you must be mad to use one of the Burger Tuning or similar plug in tuning boxes. Which essentially tricks the car. Flick a switch, more boost. Also generic to both MCS and JCW. No thanks.


Rolling road mapping is the way forward. I want to know about AFR and knock. What the boost and wastegate are doing. Duty cycle. And mapped with the fuel I’m using.
It needs to be done properly. I’d imagine it’s easily £1.5k if the engine goes pop. And it won’t be because it’s making too much power, but because the fuelling is off.

Where about a in the county are you?

[TimmyMallett]

No tuning boxes. It's just a bodge, I would rather amend the master data than frig the input. No offence to anyone using one.

I've been looking in Swindon, if anyone has any recommendations, I can't travel as I have too many commitments locally.

[Olas]

megasquirt is cheap, haltech is not cheap.

both options allow you to map it EXACTLY how you want it.

[xjay1337]

Olas said:

Individual calibration on a rolling road is the only way to do it.

uploading a generic map that is not specific to your car/engine/modifications is the same as buying a one-size-fits-all tuxedo in that you're still wearing a tux, but it's simply not good enough for anybody who actually cares about it.

For pedantry, Haltech is the most technically accurate answer to your question aswell as being the option you are least likely to pick.

Even though every single factory ECU tune out there is a "one size fits all".

And that the likes of APR, Revo etc who make "one size fits all" tunes for many cars which get excellent figures?

How unique do you think an engine really is? They come with the same injectors, have the same airflow etc...

The main thing to do is go with a reputable company who do not just apply an Internet flash file.
A flash file is fine, as long as it's a good quality one.

[Olas]

xjay1337 said:

Even though every single factory ECU tune out there is a "one size fits all".

And that the likes of APR, Revo etc who make "one size fits all" tunes for many cars which get excellent figures?

How unique do you think an engine really is? They come with the same injectors, have the same airflow etc...

The main thing to do is go with a reputable company who do not just apply an Internet flash file.
A flash file is fine, as long as it's a good quality one.

the generic factory ECU is appropriate for the generic factory car. as soon as you modify the car those parameters are no longer applicable. XYZ remap company wont do compression tests or look at duty cycles or flow test injectors or anything else, so the map is not bespoe to the car but an approximation.

Best performance with best longevity comes with a bespoke map that does not make allowances for desert temps, or rural russian petrol quality, or the potential lack f maintenance - the operator can talk to the owner about these factors and have the knowledge to make a map appropriate for intended usage patterns. something the factory map or the generic map cannot do.

[xjay1337]

Olas said:

xjay1337 said:

Even though every single factory ECU tune out there is a "one size fits all".

And that the likes of APR, Revo etc who make "one size fits all" tunes for many cars which get excellent figures?

How unique do you think an engine really is? They come with the same injectors, have the same airflow etc...

The main thing to do is go with a reputable company who do not just apply an Internet flash file.
A flash file is fine, as long as it's a good quality one.

the generic factory ECU is appropriate for the generic factory car. as soon as you modify the car those parameters are no longer applicable. XYZ remap company wont do compression tests or look at duty cycles or flow test injectors or anything else, so the map is not bespoe to the car but an approximation.

Best performance with best longevity comes with a bespoke map that does not make allowances for desert temps, or rural russian petrol quality, or the potential lack f maintenance - the operator can talk to the owner about these factors and have the knowledge to make a map appropriate for intended usage patterns. something the factory map or the generic map cannot do.

I understand the points in theory but practically most people who remap their cars run 99 octane fuel so of course the tuner should be checking that the owner is running 99 octane etc.

but no tuner does compression tests or removes injectors to check flow first, unless of course you pay for it .... ;-)

all i'm saying is that a "flash map" isn't always bad, and conversely i've seen many very , very bad remaps done by companies "custom on our rolling road"

given as well that many proper tuners develop their own base map, most of the time even a custom map isn't actually custom as it's 99% the same as every other car they've remapped.

you might have a file such as

Ford Focus RS Mk2 - 99 Octane - Intercooler - 4inch Downpipe - Forge Intake

And if you get a car come in with those fairly standard mods chances are it will be there abouts ready to go straight away.
Obviously some very minor tweaks to timing/boost may be required but it's not a ground up development.

the issue you have is where people do a click and drag on winOLS and add 25% to all values then you get problems.

apr are a flash map company and have probably the largest R&D budget of any aftermarket tuning company globally, their cars are just as reliable as any of the "custom rolling roaded" cars and their figures are very good also.

[Olas]

Yes well it all depends on your priorities.

Some people want the best, some people want the cheapest.

[TimmyMallett]

Olas said:

Yes well it all depends on your priorities.

Some people want the best, some people want the cheapest.

Therin lies the rub, that statement implies best=most expensive and as a customer it's very difficult to make sure apples are compared with apples unless I start to understand the technology involved. And getting real life reliability evidence seems to be limited to word of mouth and Google reviews so that's about all I have to go on. Should I ask if company X uses flash maps? Why are they called flash maps, what makes them <quality than x alternative?

Is there site I can go read up on this stuff?

So when you get a dyno map, what inputs does the operator additionally use that a static install does not? Everything that the OBD provides? (genuine question as I don't know)

[xjay1337]

Olas said:

Yes well it all depends on your priorities.

Some people want the best, some people want the cheapest.

Yes, I agree.

But I fail how that has anything to do with flash maps v custom remaps.

[Drekly]

BIRMA said:

I've been running a Celtic re-map on my Mini Clubvan diesel for over a year now. No complaints whatsoever and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

Also running a Celtic remap and happy with it. If you're in the south west you can get a rolling road session at their HQ which will show whether your car is in good health to start with and allows them to make any fine adjustments particular to your car, whereas a reseller agent is just going to install the base map.

[TimmyMallett]

So, if I was to chose between a Celtic base map (I'm aware Celtic are about as experienced as you can get with Mini) or a local independent company that has a Dyno and a good rep, the latter is a better option all things being equal (although theyre not as it's twice the price)

[Drekly]

TimmyMallett said:

So, if I was to chose between a Celtic base map (I'm aware Celtic are about as experienced as you can get with Mini) or a local independent company that has a Dyno and a good rep, the latter is a better option all things being equal (although theyre not as it's twice the price)

The dyno session is included in the price, I think I paid about £300. Which is great value really. Then again its local to me, if you're in Swindon it is a bit of a trek.

I did weigh up going to Lohen actually, but its a long way for me and would have upped the cost what with overnight stay/food/petrol on top.
They did offer Manic Motorsport maps (now defunct) but now have a choice of their own (do they now actually write their own software or is it a copy of Manic perhaps?) or Superchips generic maps.

Anyway, I think you'll be looking at between 210-220bhp with about 220lb/ft for most of these stage 1 maps on an otherwise completely standard car. +60lb/ft sounds like nonsense on a Cooper S with no other mods.

[paultownsend]

If APR or Revo did a stage one map I’d be happy with that. But they don’t. But I would have wanted a before and after dyno with AFR and a live logging.

[Crackie]

TimmyMallett said:

Could do with some help!

I'm after a stage 1 remap on a n18 cooper s, so I thought it might be simple, but I might be over analysing this so bear with.....

There are various solutions that I can figure:

Self install via an obd tool such as trutune. £500. Gets you a device you can upload your own map and it updates but from what I can tell it's just a standard set of maps that is exchanged. Your map it downloads from your car is the stock map, it doesn't get any other diagnostic information that is specific to your car so therefore they just sent you what I might refer to as a 'generic'map for an n18 engine and I cant see how it would be tailored in any way truetune SA Tuning's truly unique OBD personal remapping tool - SA Tuning Remap | Chip Tuning | Engine Tuning | DPF removal | EGR delete


Franchise or mobile mapping company installs at the garage they work with or your home. Again, as above, it's static install so no actual reference rolling road data enabling it to be 'tailored'. This can vary, I've currently got 2 quotes, one at £350 and one at £250. Both seem to know what they're talking about but as a consumer, I have no idea what the difference will be, as both are claiming pretty much the same outputs (about +21 Bhp and 60lbsft torque)


Rolling road mapping. £500. Seems overkill for a stage one with no mods other than a panel filter and I'm not going further than stage 1, this is a low cost exercise in making it a bit more fun



Thoughts welcome! I can name the companies (one is above) but neither seem dodgy blokes in vans, they seem pretty reputable. All things being equal (how can I tell) I'd would go for the cheapest, but I've always been an advocate of buy cheap buy twice, but if it's the same.....

Simon at e-maps knows his onions.........great & long established reputation, relatively low cost and will come to you. Knows BMW/MINI well.

Testimonials here https://www.e-maps.co.uk/about-us/