Best second hand buy?
Discussion
I’ve been without a car for a while now and once my house move is done with I’ll be after a car once more.
Not had a MINI, my mate has had quite a few and has got my attention.
This will be my only car for commute, fun and occasional long run for work (round trip of no more than 300 miles).
All of the options seem to have advantages and disadvantages, I’m considering the following:-
R53 MCS / JCW / GP: With the exception of the GP, by far the cheapest option. Seems to have the most character. Cheapest to buy (GP excepted). Slower but better handling than later models? Poor fuel economy. More maintenance than a newer car. GP model is probably a non depreciating classic by now?
R56 N18 JCW: Much more expensive than the R53, but this car would hopefully be a keeper. Still retains most of the old MINI character, but with a better engine. Much better fuel economy. These are still available approved with 1 year warranty. They also still have the central speedo and look better than the...
F56 MCS: My mate has been telling me about these. Can get these on PCP with low monthlies. He’s had his remapped and it goes like stink. Apparently more compact BMW than MINI though. Apparently the brakes are weak point. I’m sure I would end up tinkering with that, remap, clutch, JCW exhaust etc, so I almost may as well just get a JCW and be done with it?? Plus the JCW spec seems a bit more special somehow?
My inclination is to think the N18 JCW might be the best buy, but I’ve not even driven a MINI so would welcome any thoughts.
Not had a MINI, my mate has had quite a few and has got my attention.
This will be my only car for commute, fun and occasional long run for work (round trip of no more than 300 miles).
All of the options seem to have advantages and disadvantages, I’m considering the following:-
R53 MCS / JCW / GP: With the exception of the GP, by far the cheapest option. Seems to have the most character. Cheapest to buy (GP excepted). Slower but better handling than later models? Poor fuel economy. More maintenance than a newer car. GP model is probably a non depreciating classic by now?
R56 N18 JCW: Much more expensive than the R53, but this car would hopefully be a keeper. Still retains most of the old MINI character, but with a better engine. Much better fuel economy. These are still available approved with 1 year warranty. They also still have the central speedo and look better than the...
F56 MCS: My mate has been telling me about these. Can get these on PCP with low monthlies. He’s had his remapped and it goes like stink. Apparently more compact BMW than MINI though. Apparently the brakes are weak point. I’m sure I would end up tinkering with that, remap, clutch, JCW exhaust etc, so I almost may as well just get a JCW and be done with it?? Plus the JCW spec seems a bit more special somehow?
My inclination is to think the N18 JCW might be the best buy, but I’ve not even driven a MINI so would welcome any thoughts.
Its probably an easier decision if you have a specific budget, but as I went through the process last year here are my feelings:
Budget up to £5k - would try and find an immaculate R53 Cooper S with JCW 210 conversion and the JCW/R56 brake upgrade. The hydraulic steering is better than the later cars, but as you have already pointed out they are thirstier, cost more to tax and at 15+ years old are getting long in the tooth now. Not so great for longer journeys when compared with the later cars.
£5k-9k Find a mint low miles R56 N18 Cooper S (2010 facelift on) with the JCW aerokit, and remap it. The upper end of that budget might just get you an N18 JCW now, but I couldn't find one last year (was all N14s in that price range) hence took the former approach.
In terms of driving experience there isn't much between those options, but the JCW has Brembos and can be tuned further, and will probably hold its money better in the long run. You seem to have discounted N14 JCWs already, which are much more plentiful but have the well documented engine problems.
£9k-14k an F56 Cooper S with the JCW aerokit and track spoke wheels to improve the dumpy looks a tad, and/or the 210 Works tuning kit. To have both options will be closer to the upper end of that range (most £9k F56s look a bit rubbish tbh). Although as above an aftermarket remap will give it JCW+ performance for only £300 or so, and the gains are huge on the 2.0 engine. As you have noted the downside is tuning will highlight the weedy brakes which are virtually the same as those on the R56 Cooper S.
£15k and over - An F56 JCW. Pretty decent out of the box, has Brembo brakes which would cope with a power upgrade if you think it needs more. You'd have to really want an R56 GP2 over one of these to pay in the high teens.
As you have probably noticed if you have about £10k to play with there is an overlap where you can get an R56 N18 JCW (they only made these late 2012 or 2013, so quite rare) or an F56 Cooper S, and you really need to drive both cars and weigh up the type of driving and roads you are going to use them on. The build quality and ride quality improve with each generation, inversely to the looks.
Budget up to £5k - would try and find an immaculate R53 Cooper S with JCW 210 conversion and the JCW/R56 brake upgrade. The hydraulic steering is better than the later cars, but as you have already pointed out they are thirstier, cost more to tax and at 15+ years old are getting long in the tooth now. Not so great for longer journeys when compared with the later cars.
£5k-9k Find a mint low miles R56 N18 Cooper S (2010 facelift on) with the JCW aerokit, and remap it. The upper end of that budget might just get you an N18 JCW now, but I couldn't find one last year (was all N14s in that price range) hence took the former approach.
In terms of driving experience there isn't much between those options, but the JCW has Brembos and can be tuned further, and will probably hold its money better in the long run. You seem to have discounted N14 JCWs already, which are much more plentiful but have the well documented engine problems.
£9k-14k an F56 Cooper S with the JCW aerokit and track spoke wheels to improve the dumpy looks a tad, and/or the 210 Works tuning kit. To have both options will be closer to the upper end of that range (most £9k F56s look a bit rubbish tbh). Although as above an aftermarket remap will give it JCW+ performance for only £300 or so, and the gains are huge on the 2.0 engine. As you have noted the downside is tuning will highlight the weedy brakes which are virtually the same as those on the R56 Cooper S.
£15k and over - An F56 JCW. Pretty decent out of the box, has Brembo brakes which would cope with a power upgrade if you think it needs more. You'd have to really want an R56 GP2 over one of these to pay in the high teens.
As you have probably noticed if you have about £10k to play with there is an overlap where you can get an R56 N18 JCW (they only made these late 2012 or 2013, so quite rare) or an F56 Cooper S, and you really need to drive both cars and weigh up the type of driving and roads you are going to use them on. The build quality and ride quality improve with each generation, inversely to the looks.
That's very helpful thanks 
Seems like an odd set of questions for sure given that the cars fall across a wide range of budgets, I just haven't decided whether to spend less on an older car and maintain it or just bite the bullet and get something newer and a bit more hassle free.
I guess my max budget would be about 10k but the F56 got my interest due to the low monthlies but whether that's really a sensible thing to do seems doubtful so my feeling is at the minute I'd perhaps be tempted to go for the R56, preferably a JCW but one with the added extras would be acceptable too.
Although I'm aware just how tunable these F56 are and also I imagine them to be a nice place to spend a long journey.
Seems like an odd set of questions for sure given that the cars fall across a wide range of budgets, I just haven't decided whether to spend less on an older car and maintain it or just bite the bullet and get something newer and a bit more hassle free.
I guess my max budget would be about 10k but the F56 got my interest due to the low monthlies but whether that's really a sensible thing to do seems doubtful so my feeling is at the minute I'd perhaps be tempted to go for the R56, preferably a JCW but one with the added extras would be acceptable too.
Although I'm aware just how tunable these F56 are and also I imagine them to be a nice place to spend a long journey.
I have an F56 Cooper S. it seems very tyre dependent. It came secondhand with Michelin Premacy. They’re crap. The O/H has also just bought one on Dunlop run flats. That’s not bad. But I’ve just put mine on Michelin PS4S, and it’s been transformed. Extremely fun drive on a great chassis. The only moan I have is hard braking in corners if you have to. The inside rear wheel lifts and upsets the ABS.
My Mrs has a r53 s, came with run flats terrible ride got them of and put normal tyres on car was so much better, she has a jcw 16 plate now and that’s on run flats not to bad a ride on Pirelli P7s was thinking about getting rid and getting some normal tyres however the last 8 months we have had to replace both fronts as bulges in the sidewalls caused by the ever increasing number of potholes in the roads and I think a normal skinny sidewall tyre would of gone pop leaving her stranded.
My mate says all his minis came with crap tyres but hopefully a second hand buy will be shod with decent rubber.
As for the behaviour under braking, my Clio 182 used to get a bit unstable under braking which was interesting to say the least, almost as if the back wheels were lifting off the ground (which they probably were!).
As for the behaviour under braking, my Clio 182 used to get a bit unstable under braking which was interesting to say the least, almost as if the back wheels were lifting off the ground (which they probably were!).
I'm running a 2016 F56 JCW, after down sizing from a M140i. Generally I'm enjoying the experience, its quick enough for my purposes, doesn't seem to antagonise other road users, has usual excellent BMW standard of driving position & heating/ventilation, doesn't have a rattle and can do 40+mpg with restraint. I even enjoy the auto downshift blip 
Downsides are the usual modern car gripes; artificial steering, flat turbo engine, and complex 'infotainment' UI. BTW mine's still on Pirelli P7 runflats which are very temperature sensitive, below 10 degrees and its like Bambi on ice, above and its fine. I've also got variable damper settings, which make the ride on crappy English B roads almost acceptable.
SS7
Downsides are the usual modern car gripes; artificial steering, flat turbo engine, and complex 'infotainment' UI. BTW mine's still on Pirelli P7 runflats which are very temperature sensitive, below 10 degrees and its like Bambi on ice, above and its fine. I've also got variable damper settings, which make the ride on crappy English B roads almost acceptable.
SS7
I've had my F56 Cooper S from new and I've had it for 3 years in august and it has been great fun to drive. Mine also has the Michelin Primacy tyres(17" none run flats) and they are crap and they don't offer much grip at all(although they do make the car quite fun because it torque steers all over place!).
As mentioned though the brakes are garbage and the car is too quick for the brakes for sure. I wish that they came with the JCW brakes on them.
I love mine to throw around a nice country lane and I also like how torquey it feels, it just gets up and goes at pretty much any revs(hence why the tyres struggle to cope).
As mentioned though the brakes are garbage and the car is too quick for the brakes for sure. I wish that they came with the JCW brakes on them.
I love mine to throw around a nice country lane and I also like how torquey it feels, it just gets up and goes at pretty much any revs(hence why the tyres struggle to cope).
My advice is that if you can afford a newer F56 model then do so, otherwise you will likely regret it later. They are much nicer inside (Sports seats particularly compared to R series), larger engines with more tuning capability and reliability, much more modern infotainment system etc.
I bought a very early 2014 F56 Cooper S last year, with a relatively high mileage of 50k. and there seem to be some great cars offered by owners around the 10k mark recently on an F56 FB group.
I bought a very early 2014 F56 Cooper S last year, with a relatively high mileage of 50k. and there seem to be some great cars offered by owners around the 10k mark recently on an F56 FB group.
If you wanted to spend less, then I would only suggest getting a coupe or roadster due to their relative rarity compared to R series hatchbacks.
(I had a 2004 JCW from new which was great fun at the time but probably dog slow now compared to a standard F56 Cooper S. We also still have an R55 Clubman so I am quite familiar with all three platforms)
(I had a 2004 JCW from new which was great fun at the time but probably dog slow now compared to a standard F56 Cooper S. We also still have an R55 Clubman so I am quite familiar with all three platforms)
When looking at my Mini, I just changed to Mini from 7 years of BMW F10 530d ownership, I was looking for something fun and quick as a daily with comparatively low running costs.
As I was bailing on my BMW mid finance I wanted to buy from a Mini dealer to make it as painless as possible.
I had a straight choice between a 27000 mile R56 MCS and a 45000 mile R56 JCW.
Cooper S was Ice blue, black full leather and lower mileage. £8900
JCW was Chilli Red, black half leather and higher mileage. £10900
I went for the Copper S as it felt more my style, the JCW was fun but a bit less civilised and looked a bit garish in red.
To drive they are both amusingly quick, the JCW had the edge dynamically but was less civilised and with so much of my driving being on lanes and B roads I preferred the Cooper S.
My advice would be drive both, but there is so little to choose get the best condition / mileage / colour / spec you can.
As I was bailing on my BMW mid finance I wanted to buy from a Mini dealer to make it as painless as possible.
I had a straight choice between a 27000 mile R56 MCS and a 45000 mile R56 JCW.
Cooper S was Ice blue, black full leather and lower mileage. £8900
JCW was Chilli Red, black half leather and higher mileage. £10900
I went for the Copper S as it felt more my style, the JCW was fun but a bit less civilised and looked a bit garish in red.
To drive they are both amusingly quick, the JCW had the edge dynamically but was less civilised and with so much of my driving being on lanes and B roads I preferred the Cooper S.
My advice would be drive both, but there is so little to choose get the best condition / mileage / colour / spec you can.
We have just upgraded from R56 3 door to F56 5 door MCS. Quality wise it feels like going from a kids toy car to an adults car. And it’s finally a proper BMW product with the B48, and it feels it.
I never trusted the bag of spanners French engine. And ours was an N18. What they deem as an acceptable oil consumption is, unacceptable. Check weekly.
I never trusted the bag of spanners French engine. And ours was an N18. What they deem as an acceptable oil consumption is, unacceptable. Check weekly.
A map for sensible power. An exhaust for the silly noises and decent brakes. I think it’s all it will need.
I would Possibly look at a sport cat first as it will release a bit of power and noise.
Also a JCW exhaust as they can be had for £100 of the auction site. They are a bigger in diameter and less sound deadening in the back box. It’s a straight swop on a 3 door. Unfortunately not so on a 5 door. If it were I’d have picked one up.
The thing i loved in the R56 seems to be lost in the F. A press of the sport button and you used to get the artillery fire on overrun. It’s just not there anymore. It’s in the map and seems to differ between production years.
I would Possibly look at a sport cat first as it will release a bit of power and noise.
Also a JCW exhaust as they can be had for £100 of the auction site. They are a bigger in diameter and less sound deadening in the back box. It’s a straight swop on a 3 door. Unfortunately not so on a 5 door. If it were I’d have picked one up.
The thing i loved in the R56 seems to be lost in the F. A press of the sport button and you used to get the artillery fire on overrun. It’s just not there anymore. It’s in the map and seems to differ between production years.
paultownsend said:
I would Possibly look at a sport cat first as it will release a bit of power and noise.
This is a good shout and the sport cats on my 370Z have really helped to transform the noise that makes. I always thought that a sport cat would just make the car breathe better...but the noise difference is very noticeable for sure. TameRacingDriver said:
Thanks for all the comments. I’m leaning heavily towards spending a bit more on an F56 MCS and modding it (remap, clutch, LSD, brake upgrade). They seem like cracking little cars, and it should be a bit of weapon if modded, they seem surprisingly easy to make into very fast cars.
I've no affiliation to Lohen, but Petrol Ped did a review of a couple of their tuned R56 and F56 Cooper S's which might be of interest to youhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-oU48aUdQQ
Thanks Drekly I'll check that out.
I'm now leaning back towards buying an R53 JCW outright as I've just managed to clear my debts and saved up a few grand, my sensible head is telling me that having 200+ monthlies again for the next 5 years is not such a good idea.
I know they'll need more maintenance and drink more fuel and be slower and less well built, on the flip side they seem to look better and have more character and 200+ quid a month is a lot of money to put towards maintenance and petrol. Also a late one already has an LSD which I would have definitely added to a later model anyway.
I'm now leaning back towards buying an R53 JCW outright as I've just managed to clear my debts and saved up a few grand, my sensible head is telling me that having 200+ monthlies again for the next 5 years is not such a good idea.
I know they'll need more maintenance and drink more fuel and be slower and less well built, on the flip side they seem to look better and have more character and 200+ quid a month is a lot of money to put towards maintenance and petrol. Also a late one already has an LSD which I would have definitely added to a later model anyway.
TameRacingDriver said:
Thanks Drekly I'll check that out.
I'm now leaning back towards buying an R53 JCW outright as I've just managed to clear my debts and saved up a few grand, my sensible head is telling me that having 200+ monthlies again for the next 5 years is not such a good idea.
I know they'll need more maintenance and drink more fuel and be slower and less well built, on the flip side they seem to look better and have more character and 200+ quid a month is a lot of money to put towards maintenance and petrol. Also a late one already has an LSD which I would have definitely added to a later model anyway.
The R53 is a lot of fun and is much more like a classic mini, with a similar character. They are bound to need some bits doing to them, but thats the same as any car of a similar age. The R53 is however very easy to work on and the parts are cheap. Mines not a JCW but has around 200bhp now with the mods ive done and its great fun. The only downside for me is the mpg. 24mpg even when being driven carefully isnt great. I'm now leaning back towards buying an R53 JCW outright as I've just managed to clear my debts and saved up a few grand, my sensible head is telling me that having 200+ monthlies again for the next 5 years is not such a good idea.
I know they'll need more maintenance and drink more fuel and be slower and less well built, on the flip side they seem to look better and have more character and 200+ quid a month is a lot of money to put towards maintenance and petrol. Also a late one already has an LSD which I would have definitely added to a later model anyway.
rabbitstew said:
The only downside for me is the mpg. 24mpg even when being driven carefully isnt great.
That is what I like about the F56 Cooper S and it isn't the quickest thing in the world as standard with only 189bhp, but mine hasn't dropped below 40mpg on the fuel computer since I've had it. I'm probably not driving it quick enough though because I don't really trust myself In a FWD car! I'm really confident with RWD but I lack confidence in a FWD car for some reason, I never seem to know what they are going to do...whereas I know where I stand with RWD.
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