Cooper S or JCW?
Discussion
Now I have sold my 130i and have the new to me '54 X3 3.0i as my 'only' car (which is surprisingly nippy), I am thinking about a fun 'runaround'.
My wife has her beloved Cooper (30k miles since she bought it new in '03) and I do enjoy driving it but would prefer a bit more oomph.
So the consideration is to an S or maybe a JCW - up to £7k.
It would be used for local journeys and work stuff in the south east but the longer journeys and load lugging left to the X3 (which also tows my bike trailer).
I dumped the RFT's on the 130 as the ride was appalling so what should I look for in the ride and servicing departments for either car?
I have no experience of the supercharger, either from a driving point of view or from a servicing/reliability stance. I was a bit disappointed with my year in my supercharged Corrado way back and changed to a VR6 but that's no real comparison - I am not a fan of turbo's though.
Will either of them feel like riding a rigid chassis on our grotty south east roads - very little motorway driving envisaged.
Is there a mileage where things start to become risky?
Any useful thoughts gratefully received.
Cheers
David
My wife has her beloved Cooper (30k miles since she bought it new in '03) and I do enjoy driving it but would prefer a bit more oomph.
So the consideration is to an S or maybe a JCW - up to £7k.
It would be used for local journeys and work stuff in the south east but the longer journeys and load lugging left to the X3 (which also tows my bike trailer).
I dumped the RFT's on the 130 as the ride was appalling so what should I look for in the ride and servicing departments for either car?
I have no experience of the supercharger, either from a driving point of view or from a servicing/reliability stance. I was a bit disappointed with my year in my supercharged Corrado way back and changed to a VR6 but that's no real comparison - I am not a fan of turbo's though.
Will either of them feel like riding a rigid chassis on our grotty south east roads - very little motorway driving envisaged.
Is there a mileage where things start to become risky?
Any useful thoughts gratefully received.
Cheers
David
Service intervals mirror BMW and are every 15k miles, so oil, insp 1, oil, insp 2, oil, etc
If you are doing limited miles i would go for a late facelift 54-06 plate JCW. I had the 18 inc JCW wheels and whilst they were great to look at the ride was awful, made worse as they were on run flats. I would stick with 17 inch.
Things start to wear out - subject to age and use around the 60k mile mark, so discs, bushes etc, fairly normal items. Main things to check for are the water pump for leaks and timing chain tensioners, if there are notieable rattles from the engine bay at idle i'd walk away.
Supercharges are strong and last upto 100k, the oil can be changed to freshen up although not strictly a service item.
The gearbox are strong and designed to take alot more power - lifted from the E46 bmw 3 series.
Great cars and i miss mine alot! Goodluck, you should be able to get either a nice specced late ccoper S or a reasonable mid spec JCW for your budget. Here is a gratutious pic of mine, standard S with LSD but lots of toys.
If you are doing limited miles i would go for a late facelift 54-06 plate JCW. I had the 18 inc JCW wheels and whilst they were great to look at the ride was awful, made worse as they were on run flats. I would stick with 17 inch.
Things start to wear out - subject to age and use around the 60k mile mark, so discs, bushes etc, fairly normal items. Main things to check for are the water pump for leaks and timing chain tensioners, if there are notieable rattles from the engine bay at idle i'd walk away.
Supercharges are strong and last upto 100k, the oil can be changed to freshen up although not strictly a service item.
The gearbox are strong and designed to take alot more power - lifted from the E46 bmw 3 series.
Great cars and i miss mine alot! Goodluck, you should be able to get either a nice specced late ccoper S or a reasonable mid spec JCW for your budget. Here is a gratutious pic of mine, standard S with LSD but lots of toys.
16's are the MINI sweetspot for ride vs handling, imho. 17's ride noticeably worse, but the grip isn't noticably better.
Having driven these MINI wheel & tyre combos back to back, I'd describe them overall as follows:
17's + 205/45 rfts - lumpy crashy ride, tramlining & skittering varies according to brand, and lots of unsprung weight (10kg per OEM wheel typical)
17's + 205/45 non-rfts - jittery ride, with same heavy wheels & lots of unsprung weight
16's + 195/55 non-rfts - much smoother ride with all the grip you need for road use, plus lower unsprung weight and cheaper tyres too
15's + 175/65 non-rfts - smoothest ride, lowest unsprung weight (5kg per OEM wheel), but comedy understeer / drifting on demand / wheelspin from too narrow tyre width.
I'd choose an S on 16's, with a supercharger pulley change, and finally an easy £199 remap + software upgrade to 214hp JCW levels, rather than spending more on a JCW with heavy 17's or 18's on 45/40 profile rubber and their poorer ride.
http://www.superchips.co.uk/search?make=23&fue...
HTH.
Having driven these MINI wheel & tyre combos back to back, I'd describe them overall as follows:
17's + 205/45 rfts - lumpy crashy ride, tramlining & skittering varies according to brand, and lots of unsprung weight (10kg per OEM wheel typical)
17's + 205/45 non-rfts - jittery ride, with same heavy wheels & lots of unsprung weight
16's + 195/55 non-rfts - much smoother ride with all the grip you need for road use, plus lower unsprung weight and cheaper tyres too
15's + 175/65 non-rfts - smoothest ride, lowest unsprung weight (5kg per OEM wheel), but comedy understeer / drifting on demand / wheelspin from too narrow tyre width.
I'd choose an S on 16's, with a supercharger pulley change, and finally an easy £199 remap + software upgrade to 214hp JCW levels, rather than spending more on a JCW with heavy 17's or 18's on 45/40 profile rubber and their poorer ride.
http://www.superchips.co.uk/search?make=23&fue...
HTH.
Miglia 888 said:
16's are the MINI sweetspot for ride vs handling, imho. 17's ride noticeably worse, but the grip isn't noticably better.
Having driven these MINI wheel & tyre combos back to back, I'd describe them overall as follows:
17's + 205/45 rfts - lumpy crashy ride, tramlining & skittering varies according to brand, and lots of unsprung weight (10kg per OEM wheel typical)
17's + 205/45 non-rfts - jittery ride, with same heavy wheels & lots of unsprung weight
16's + 195/55 non-rfts - much smoother ride with all the grip you need for road use, plus lower unsprung weight and cheaper tyres too
15's + 175/65 non-rfts - smoothest ride, lowest unsprung weight (5kg per OEM wheel), but comedy understeer / drifting on demand / wheelspin from too narrow tyre width.
I'd choose an S on 16's, with a supercharger pulley change, and finally an easy £199 remap + software upgrade to 214hp JCW levels, rather than spending more on a JCW with heavy 17's or 18's on 45/40 profile rubber and their poorer ride.
http://www.superchips.co.uk/search?make=23&fue...
HTH.
Excellent stuff.Having driven these MINI wheel & tyre combos back to back, I'd describe them overall as follows:
17's + 205/45 rfts - lumpy crashy ride, tramlining & skittering varies according to brand, and lots of unsprung weight (10kg per OEM wheel typical)
17's + 205/45 non-rfts - jittery ride, with same heavy wheels & lots of unsprung weight
16's + 195/55 non-rfts - much smoother ride with all the grip you need for road use, plus lower unsprung weight and cheaper tyres too
15's + 175/65 non-rfts - smoothest ride, lowest unsprung weight (5kg per OEM wheel), but comedy understeer / drifting on demand / wheelspin from too narrow tyre width.
I'd choose an S on 16's, with a supercharger pulley change, and finally an easy £199 remap + software upgrade to 214hp JCW levels, rather than spending more on a JCW with heavy 17's or 18's on 45/40 profile rubber and their poorer ride.
http://www.superchips.co.uk/search?make=23&fue...
HTH.
There are far more S's around than JCW and I like a bit of stealth power!
My 130 was detestable on RFT's and I would have sold it last year if I hadn't made the change.
My wife's Chilli Cooper is still a bit lumpy but she prefers the peace of mind of RFTs and I can't blame her after 3 separate punctures at awkward times would have left her in potentially dodgy situations.
pdavison said:
Sorry for the thread high jack but doesn't the JCW make a much nicer noise (pops and crackles on over run) or can the S be made to deliver the same? Also from an insurance perspective is it easier to ensure a JCW than a modified S?
Yes a JCW does make more crackles and pops on overrun than standard S but this can be solved with a decent exhaust from Miltek or Playmini if you are so way inclined.I should imagine whilst the JCW is a couple of insurance groups higher than S, they would even out when you declare modifications.
Good luck OP, pictures please when/if you purchase.
BTW i am also taken by a 130i, they can be had for reasonable money now.
I had a great 4 years with the 130 but it was only the non RFTs that saved it.
The performance is terrific and is a bit of a Q car for those who don't know about them.
Was not as comfortable over longer distances than my old 330 coupe or the X3 though and that was part of my reason to sell.
Give one a go.
I'm not rushing into the Mini purchase unless something crops up locally at the right price.
The performance is terrific and is a bit of a Q car for those who don't know about them.
Was not as comfortable over longer distances than my old 330 coupe or the X3 though and that was part of my reason to sell.
Give one a go.
I'm not rushing into the Mini purchase unless something crops up locally at the right price.
Just had a short town and country drive in an 06 S (44k miles) and in general I really liked it and will start looking for the 'right one' but the one I drove wasn't the particular one I would want to own. I was sneaking a run out on an indie dealer car but he did let me out on my own for half an hour.
A couple of questions arose due to lack of knowledge.
Front end felt a bit graunchy pulling away.
Steering alternated between rock solid and a bit vague around the centre - it would veer slightly on the camber. Never got going enough to find any torque steer (if it exists).
Ride was surprisingly good but I didn't look at what the wheel/tyre situation was.
Are these faults or 'they all do that sir'?
I rather liked the what I assumed was supercharger whine and was pleased to hear it was only on quick acceleration that it was really noticeable (and addictive) but not in cruise mode when up to speed - that may have been a bit wearing.
For what I need, I don't think it's worth going for the Works model as I think I may have to compromise comfort a bit too much (I'm 58 and with a squiffy back and knees).
My thoughts are towards a dark grey with dark wheels and tinted rear glass with xenons and half leather (all the leather seats seem totally rucked and tatty).
A couple of questions arose due to lack of knowledge.
Front end felt a bit graunchy pulling away.
Steering alternated between rock solid and a bit vague around the centre - it would veer slightly on the camber. Never got going enough to find any torque steer (if it exists).
Ride was surprisingly good but I didn't look at what the wheel/tyre situation was.
Are these faults or 'they all do that sir'?
I rather liked the what I assumed was supercharger whine and was pleased to hear it was only on quick acceleration that it was really noticeable (and addictive) but not in cruise mode when up to speed - that may have been a bit wearing.
For what I need, I don't think it's worth going for the Works model as I think I may have to compromise comfort a bit too much (I'm 58 and with a squiffy back and knees).
My thoughts are towards a dark grey with dark wheels and tinted rear glass with xenons and half leather (all the leather seats seem totally rucked and tatty).
DavidLScott said:
Just had a short town and country drive in an 06 S (44k miles) and in general I really liked it and will start looking for the 'right one' but the one I drove wasn't the particular one I would want to own. I was sneaking a run out on an indie dealer car but he did let me out on my own for half an hour.
A couple of questions arose due to lack of knowledge.
Front end felt a bit graunchy pulling away.
Steering alternated between rock solid and a bit vague around the centre - it would veer slightly on the camber. Never got going enough to find any torque steer (if it exists).
Ride was surprisingly good but I didn't look at what the wheel/tyre situation was.
Are these faults or 'they all do that sir'?
I rather liked the what I assumed was supercharger whine and was pleased to hear it was only on quick acceleration that it was really noticeable (and addictive) but not in cruise mode when up to speed - that may have been a bit wearing.
For what I need, I don't think it's worth going for the Works model as I think I may have to compromise comfort a bit too much (I'm 58 and with a squiffy back and knees).
My thoughts are towards a dark grey with dark wheels and tinted rear glass with xenons and half leather (all the leather seats seem totally rucked and tatty).
It could have been the LSD when pulling away and yes if there is the slightest camber they can tug to one side a bit. The supercharger whine is brilliant and i loved the smooth spread of tourgw too. A couple of questions arose due to lack of knowledge.
Front end felt a bit graunchy pulling away.
Steering alternated between rock solid and a bit vague around the centre - it would veer slightly on the camber. Never got going enough to find any torque steer (if it exists).
Ride was surprisingly good but I didn't look at what the wheel/tyre situation was.
Are these faults or 'they all do that sir'?
I rather liked the what I assumed was supercharger whine and was pleased to hear it was only on quick acceleration that it was really noticeable (and addictive) but not in cruise mode when up to speed - that may have been a bit wearing.
For what I need, I don't think it's worth going for the Works model as I think I may have to compromise comfort a bit too much (I'm 58 and with a squiffy back and knees).
My thoughts are towards a dark grey with dark wheels and tinted rear glass with xenons and half leather (all the leather seats seem totally rucked and tatty).
Why not still test drive a JCW to make sure you are 100% satisfied with the standard S - they use the same suspension so ride wont be much different - just dont get one with 18s on or runflats.
Dark grey is a very popular colour and i agree rear privacy glass and xenons set it off. Find one with the Chili pack.
Don't know if it's of any interest, but selling mine at the mo. Will be serviced at Mini in a couple of weeks too.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
PS The leather is in great condition.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
PS The leather is in great condition.
si xsi...thanks for that.
Shows I don't know anything about them.
There is a JCW on PH that looks as if it should be perfect for me but it almost seems on the cheap side compared to the S's out there. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m... but seems comparable to other JCW's. Been on for two weeks as well, is that unusual?
There are hardly any JCW's out there in my budget either so it limits the options - I'm not prepared to travel much over 40 miles as it's not worth the hassle and I am in no rush.
Luke...sorry, but it's out of my budget. Thanks for the link though
I'm trying to keep well below £7k as it will be an alternative car to the X3 so I can't justify (or be allowed to
) chuck too much money at it.
Your seats are the newer ones so I haven't been looking at those to see any problems. It's the Mk1 leather seats that seem to ruck quite badly.
To be honest, I prefer the MK1 looks anyway externally and the central speedo redesign really irritates me on the Mk2 - sorry to be contrary! Maybe it's because I'm used to my wifes Mk1 Cooper.
Shows I don't know anything about them.
There is a JCW on PH that looks as if it should be perfect for me but it almost seems on the cheap side compared to the S's out there. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m... but seems comparable to other JCW's. Been on for two weeks as well, is that unusual?
There are hardly any JCW's out there in my budget either so it limits the options - I'm not prepared to travel much over 40 miles as it's not worth the hassle and I am in no rush.
Luke...sorry, but it's out of my budget. Thanks for the link though
I'm trying to keep well below £7k as it will be an alternative car to the X3 so I can't justify (or be allowed to
) chuck too much money at it.Your seats are the newer ones so I haven't been looking at those to see any problems. It's the Mk1 leather seats that seem to ruck quite badly.
To be honest, I prefer the MK1 looks anyway externally and the central speedo redesign really irritates me on the Mk2 - sorry to be contrary! Maybe it's because I'm used to my wifes Mk1 Cooper.
DavidLScott said:
si xsi...thanks for that.
Shows I don't know anything about them.
There is a JCW on PH that looks as if it should be perfect for me but it almost seems on the cheap side compared to the S's out there. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m... but seems comparable to other JCW's. Been on for two weeks as well, is that unusual?
There are hardly any JCW's out there in my budget either so it limits the options - I'm not prepared to travel much over 40 miles as it's not worth the hassle and I am in no rush.
Luke...sorry, but it's out of my budget. Thanks for the link though
I'm trying to keep well below £7k as it will be an alternative car to the X3 so I can't justify (or be allowed to) chuck too much money at it.
Your seats are the newer ones so I haven't been looking at those to see any problems. It's the Mk1 leather seats that seem to ruck quite badly.
To be honest, I prefer the MK1 looks anyway externally and the central speedo redesign really irritates me on the Mk2 - sorry to be contrary! Maybe it's because I'm used to my wifes Mk1 Cooper.
Chili pack came on all S's, so no need to worry about that.Shows I don't know anything about them.
There is a JCW on PH that looks as if it should be perfect for me but it almost seems on the cheap side compared to the S's out there. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m... but seems comparable to other JCW's. Been on for two weeks as well, is that unusual?
There are hardly any JCW's out there in my budget either so it limits the options - I'm not prepared to travel much over 40 miles as it's not worth the hassle and I am in no rush.
Luke...sorry, but it's out of my budget. Thanks for the link though
I'm trying to keep well below £7k as it will be an alternative car to the X3 so I can't justify (or be allowed to
) chuck too much money at it.Your seats are the newer ones so I haven't been looking at those to see any problems. It's the Mk1 leather seats that seem to ruck quite badly.
To be honest, I prefer the MK1 looks anyway externally and the central speedo redesign really irritates me on the Mk2 - sorry to be contrary! Maybe it's because I'm used to my wifes Mk1 Cooper.
If I was buying again, and I am looking, I'd get a JCW. Not much more money, but come with ~40BHP more.
You'll do well to get a LSD, out of all the ones I've seen on PH, 2 declared it had one, you may be lucky and find one where the sellers not mentioned it. Facelift came out at the beginning of 2004, so SOME 53 plate cars had certain upgrades, but stick to 04 and you should have them all.
The link you posted has the engine upgrades, but not the brakes nor the aero kit. It does have climate control and the (in my opinion) rubbish chrono pack (in place of the speed dial in the centre)
If you do get a JCW, make sure you see the certificate it WILL have been sold with, otherwise someone could have bolted bits on themselves.
Feel free to fire some questions at me.
DavidLScott said:
Can't really Luke even thought it's tempting but we've got 2 cars and 3 motorbikes already so going back to three cars so quickly is taking sensitive negotiation 
.
I've got to stick at £7k absolute max otherwise I'm done for - even that needs to be for a stunner I couldn't turn down.
No worries. Good luck with the hunt. It's the best part...I've got to stick at £7k absolute max otherwise I'm done for - even that needs to be for a stunner I couldn't turn down.
illmonkey said:
Chili pack came on all S's, so no need to worry about that.
If I was buying again, and I am looking, I'd get a JCW. Not much more money, but come with ~40BHP more.
You'll do well to get a LSD, out of all the ones I've seen on PH, 2 declared it had one, you may be lucky and find one where the sellers not mentioned it. Facelift came out at the beginning of 2004, so SOME 53 plate cars had certain upgrades, but stick to 04 and you should have them all.
The link you posted has the engine upgrades, but not the brakes nor the aero kit. It does have climate control and the (in my opinion) rubbish chrono pack (in place of the speed dial in the centre)
If you do get a JCW, make sure you see the certificate it WILL have been sold with, otherwise someone could have bolted bits on themselves.
Feel free to fire some questions at me.
Thanks for the advice and the offer - really helpfulIf I was buying again, and I am looking, I'd get a JCW. Not much more money, but come with ~40BHP more.
You'll do well to get a LSD, out of all the ones I've seen on PH, 2 declared it had one, you may be lucky and find one where the sellers not mentioned it. Facelift came out at the beginning of 2004, so SOME 53 plate cars had certain upgrades, but stick to 04 and you should have them all.
The link you posted has the engine upgrades, but not the brakes nor the aero kit. It does have climate control and the (in my opinion) rubbish chrono pack (in place of the speed dial in the centre)
If you do get a JCW, make sure you see the certificate it WILL have been sold with, otherwise someone could have bolted bits on themselves.
Feel free to fire some questions at me.
I agree about the chrono pack - not pretty.
I am probably too sedate to worry about LSD's - I doubt I really exploited the 130's rwd but I do like peeing people off in my X3 as it's the 3.0 petrol so goes rather quick for a tank and handles surprisingly well.
Any thoughts /comments on either of these compared to the JCW above(I know one is blue, which isn't what I said!)?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-55-Mini-1-6-Cooper-...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-1-6-Cooper-S-Metall...
I am thinking the JCW is a good balance of age / price/ kit.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-55-Mini-1-6-Cooper-...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-1-6-Cooper-S-Metall...
I am thinking the JCW is a good balance of age / price/ kit.
Edited by DavidLScott on Friday 7th June 15:35
DavidLScott said:
Any thoughts /comments on either of these compared to the JCW above(I know one is blue, which isn't what I said!)?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-55-Mini-1-6-Cooper-...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-1-6-Cooper-S-Metall...
I am thinking the JCW is a good balance of age / price/ kit.
1st one:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-55-Mini-1-6-Cooper-...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-1-6-Cooper-S-Metall...
I am thinking the JCW is a good balance of age / price/ kit.
Edited by DavidLScott on Friday 7th June 15:35
- Half leather
- no climate control
+ Facelift
+ 55 plate
2nd one:
- Half leather
- no climate control
+ Facelift
+ 05 plate
You're down to comparing mileage and condition on those 2.
I'd take the JCW one you originally posted. (actually don't, I want it!)
Gassing Station | New MINIs | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff