Cooper S ride quality

[Challo]

Bought a R53 6months ago and really struggling with the ride. It has non run flats on the front and run flats on the rear. The local roads to me are not great with pot holes, and plenty of patches or various Tarmac which at the moment means the car rides very rough and you feel every bump.

Will change the rears to non run flats really make a big difference? Or is it something I will have to get used too?

[MX-5 Lazza]

Bit of both. You should change the rears anyway. For a start, the tyres with the best grip (mostly talking wet-weather grip here) should be on the rear, secondly, no decent garage would fit a mix of RF & non-RF for safety reasons on advice from tyre manufacturers.
They are fairly stiff cars anyway though so it'll never ride like a limo but fitting non-RF all round will help.

(p.s. as an owner of a very modified MX5 with uprated suspension and having has a number of discussions about the balance between roll-resistance, turn-in and ride quality when deciding on spring stiffness front and rear I know that the front has the biggest effect on roll resistance & turn-in and the rear has the biggest effect on ride quality)

[mike9009]

The next step could be to try 16" alloys instead of, I presume, the 17" alloys fitted.

[MX-5 Lazza]

There's not really much difference between the 16" and 17" ride quality. My Cooper has 16s and my Mrs Cooper S Conv has 17s. Mine has Falken 912 non-RF and hers has Hankook V12 Evo non-RF and the ride is comparable if you factor out the fact that the Cooper S Conv has much stiffer suspension. I actually prefer hers... but don't tell her I said that

[MX-5 Lazza]

There's not really much difference between the 16" and 17" ride quality. My Cooper has 16s and my Mrs Cooper S Conv has 17s. Mine has Falken 912 non-RF and hers has Hankook V12 Evo non-RF and the ride is comparable if you factor out the fact that the Cooper S Conv has much stiffer suspension. I actually prefer hers... but don't tell her I said that

[MX-5 Lazza]

There's not really much difference between the 16" and 17" ride quality. My Cooper has 16s and my Mrs Cooper S Conv has 17s. Mine has Falken 912 non-RF and hers has Hankook V12 Evo non-RF and the ride is comparable if you factor out the fact that the Cooper S Conv has much stiffer suspension. I actually prefer hers... but don't tell her I said that

[mike9009]

I test drove back to back a Mini One on 15 inch wheels and then a Mini Cooper on 17 inch. It was on the isle of wight roads (which are ste!), and the ride quality on the One was far superior (in fact we bought a One based upon the ride comfort eventually - due to wifes back problem at the time....)

I accept that it maybe not comparing like with like and the 17s must have had run flats which I know make a significant difference.

Bow to your opinion, but posting three times to get the message across??

Mike

[sad61t]

The first owner may have specced the sports suspension (guess the only way to find out would be to ask your local dealer to check the registration against their records) which makes the ride stiffer. Not entirely sure what this was, possibly a larger diameter anti-roll bar. A video review I vaguely recall gave it the thumbs down with, "It appears to replace what suspension there is with bricks."

[Challo]

swerni said:

Challo said:

Bought a R53 6months ago and really struggling with the ride. It has non run flats on the front and run flats on the rear. The local roads to me are not great with pot holes, and plenty of patches or various Tarmac which at the moment means the car rides very rough and you feel every bump.

Will change the rears to non run flats really make a big difference? Or is it something I will have to get used too?

You're mad having different tyres on the front and rear.
Have a search on google, then bin the runflats!

Can I ask why I am mad to have a mix of run flats and non run flats? I have read threads on here before about that point and people have differing opinions.

[mike9009]

swerni said:

Challo said:

swerni said:

Challo said:

Bought a R53 6months ago and really struggling with the ride. It has non run flats on the front and run flats on the rear. The local roads to me are not great with pot holes, and plenty of patches or various Tarmac which at the moment means the car rides very rough and you feel every bump.

Will change the rears to non run flats really make a big difference? Or is it something I will have to get used too?

You're mad having different tyres on the front and rear.
Have a search on google, then bin the runflats!

Can I ask why I am mad to have a mix of run flats and non run flats? I have read threads on here before about that point and people have differing opinions.

Because of the different characteristics of tyres.
If you go to many ( or maybe even most) of the major tyres centers they would either refuse to mix them or make you sign a waiver stating that they will accept no liability if you crash.
Why do you think this is?

I am also running non RFs on the front and RF at the rear. I have had the fronts replaced at two different places (national tyre places) and did not need to sign a waiver or had installation refused. There was a discussion at one place......

I am waiting for the rears to need replacement before I change them too. I have had no issues (but then again I don't track my Mini or drive like a nutcase on the roads). Therefore, no issues in two years ownership.

Just feel you are scaremongering a little, unless the OP is planning to track his Mini.

Surely the main difference between the RFs and non RFs is the support in the sidewall. Therefore as far as the car/road knows the contact patch is a rubber compound and tread pattern. Therefore braking performance will not be impaired (which reminds me I need new pads and disks!!). Out and out cornering performance may well be compromised.....

Happy to be proven wrong!


Mike

[mike9009]

swerni said:

The garage I went to flatly refused.
I called a couple of others to see if he was trying to pull,a fast one, they said I would have to sign a waiver
Then went on line and on PH and a large number of people said don't do it.

It was down to the handling characteristics of the tyres.
For the sale of a few extra £, we switched all of them to non RF.

Each to their own.

Maybe, the temptation of a sale at the garages I visited was too great.... and phoning first may give the reaction you got?? (It could be BBC watchdog phoning!!). I wonder if there is anything 'official' about mixing RFs and non RFs from the OEMs? I will have a quick look around the interweb.....


Mike

[MX-5 Lazza]

Just Google it.

http://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/articles/Type/RunFla...
http://tyres-online.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/replaci...
http://www.national.co.uk/information/runflat-tyre...
http://www.runflat.eu/english/qa/

[mike9009]

MX-5 Lazza said:

Just Google it.

http://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/articles/Type/RunFla...
http://tyres-online.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/replaci...
http://www.national.co.uk/information/runflat-tyre...
http://www.runflat.eu/english/qa/

Not trying to be awkward - but the Bridgestone website doesn't seem to mention it. The tyre selling places seem to be giving the same advice about not even mixing brands let alone RFTs and non RFTs. How many average motorists run with different brands on each corner? I do accept that the handling maybe compromised, but if you are pushing that hard on the road (ie on or above the limit) then you would 'probably' loose it anyway. Only on track would the benefits of same brand/ RFT actually be noticed - and sometimes, more talented peeps than me, may specify different brands/ compounds front to rear anyway to get certain handling characteristics.

Mixing across an axle is perhaps not the best idea as there is then an unpredictability about the handling.

If suspension has been tuned for RFTs then surely changing away from RFTs should also not be recommended. (I think this is what the OEMs say anyway, and yet people ignore this advice.....)

I know the general opinion on PH is ditch all the RFTs at the same time and replace with non RFTs, but I am doing it in a couple of stages with no apparent detriment with my driving style and putting some cash in my back pocket.

Not sure if we have gone off topic enough yet??

Mike

[MX-5 Lazza]

mike9009 said:

Not trying to be awkward

But doing a good job nevertheless

Tyre-shopper said:

We do not recommend MIXING conventional and run-flat tyres (due to potential differences in vehicle handling characteristics)

Tyres-online said:

Tyre manufacturers' websites have little to say about replacing runflats with conventional tyres. Most recommend replacing runflats with runflats and not mixing different runflat brands. One thing they all agree on is that runflat and conventional tyres should never be mixed on a vehicle.

National said:

As a general rule of thumb, you should avoid mixing different tyre types on a vehicle. This is also true of combining conventional and run flat tyres on a car – as their handling characteristics may differ, they should not be mixed on a vehicle.

Bridgestone said:

Bridgestone do not recommend mixing tyres with Run-Flat Technology and standard tyres on the same vehicle, even if paired in axle sets. If you have a puncture, tyres with Run-Flat Technology are designed to permit you to proceed to a tyre dealer where you can have the tyre checked and replaced if necessary with another tyre with Run-Flat Technology. In exceptional and emergency circumstances a conventional tyre of the same size can be fitted. It must be noted that standard tyres do not have Runflat characteristics and should be removed at the earliest opportunity.

I don't see why you are refusing to accept that the accepted wisdom is not to mix tyre types. It was the same years ago with the advice not to mix cross-ply and radial tyres. I'm sure most people that did mix them back then didn't die in a horrible crash. Are you going to say that it would still be safe?

One of those above does mention not mixing RFs from different manufacturers (not just mixing any tyres from different manufacturers as you suggested). That's because different tyre manufacturers have different approaches to RF technology.

Now that I've gone to the time and effort to find and quote those websites, I'll give you a challenge. Find and quote one single professional website that says that it is safe to mix RF & non-RF

[CO2000]

These transformed my R53 (with sport suspension)

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m54b758s103p107750/Vrede...

[mike9009]

MX-5 Lazza said:

Now that I've gone to the time and effort to find and quote those websites, I'll give you a challenge. Find and quote one single professional website that says that it is safe to mix RF & non-RF

I stand corrected But I will replace the rear tyres when they are nearing 2mm tread. Genuinely not trying to upset anyone - and I am the only one likely to be upset when I stuff my car into a brick wall due to the extremely difficult handling characteristics. Definitely not safe having covered 15000 miles with the setup, unless it is my driving 'god' skills keeping me alive.... (which I very much doubt!)

I fully accept it is not the ideal theoretical set-up. But there are lots of things manufacturers state that you shouldn't do, that we do, do.....

[sad61t]

Hi Challo,

If you are around over Easter and the weather is half decent, my MINI is still on the winters (can't imagine why... ) so I've a set of 16" non-RF wheels under the stairs. You're welcome to come round and try them out - it'll take about an hour to swap over and back again assuming no Force India components are fitted, and you'll get a better idea of what to put on your MINI when you next need to change the tires.

[Challo]

sad61t said:

Hi Challo,

If you are around over Easter and the weather is half decent, my MINI is still on the winters (can't imagine why... ) so I've a set of 16" non-RF wheels under the stairs. You're welcome to come round and try them out - it'll take about an hour to swap over and back again assuming no Force India components are fitted, and you'll get a better idea of what to put on your MINI when you next need to change the tires.

Thank you for the offer. Unfortunatly I'm away this weekend so will not be around. My GF works part-time at a BMW dealership on the weekend so will get to find out the original spec on the mini when it came out the factory, and see if it has the addtional sports suspension

[MrTickle]

I have an R53JCW with R105 18's and JCW Sports susp. plus and luckily no fillings to fall out.....

I have just changed all 4 to Michelin Pilot SuperSports as they have been fantastic on my 911 and they also do the recommended 205/40/18 which seems very rare for non RFLT boots.

The car, although still a hard ride, is transformed! 2 of mine Bridgestone runflats still had 3-4mm on, but I ditched the lot in order not to mix for the reasons above.

[andrew]

2011 cooper s with 17" wheels, sports suspension option, nrf on the front, rf on the rear

sports suspension appears to make very little difference to anything
ditto 17"s

swapping the fronts made a dramatic difference to the bouncing, torque steering, tramlining and, sadly, steering feel

several people trying to sell me four tyres advised not to mix tyres, but no noticeable side effects, eg instant death, as yet

( probably makes less difference than mixing new and just legal worn tyres ? )

hth !