Buying a Bentley Turbo R
Discussion
I have enjoyed reading many of the interesting views on this site, and feel that other readers may benefit from my own Bentley experience.
Over the last 30 years I have enjoyed many great vehicles, but it was about three years ago that my interest turned to Rolls Royces & Bentleys. What triggered my particular interest was assisting a German client with the rebuild of a Bentley S3. The Bentley was of sentimental value to the client, and I was asked whether I knew any specialist restorer in the UK who could perform the task. I did know of such a restorer, and in fact two years on the Bentley was restored to perfection. The client was delighted, and along the way I purchased a 1974 Silver Shadow. I enjoyed the Shadow for about 18 months, but due to the need for garage space the Shadow found a new home.
Earlier this year I was focused on acquiring a Bentley T2, but I was unable to find quite the right car. In fact a really nice example was presented to me, but I could not quite come to terms with the price; a decision which in time I have no doubt I will regret. It was then by chance that I felt that a Bentley Turbo R might be a better option, and I am delighted to say that about two months ago a late 1997 Turbo R arrived in my garage.
The purpose of this note is to provide some lay advice to anybody else out there who is thinking about a Bentley Turbo R as a purchase. What I say is not professional advice, and is based entirely upon my own opinion which you may choose to accept or reject. Although, much of what I will say is based on pure common sense I do feel that a special set of rules do apply to buying a Bentley Turbo R. The rules I believe are as follows:
(a). At the very outset you must have in mind that the Bentley Turbo R, although representing great value now, was a very expensive vehicle to buy when new, and equally expensive to maintain. In short they were acquired by wealthy individuals / companies who had the required financial means. As the vehicles become older it is important to remember that the maintenance required increases as sadly although the build quality is high everything has a life. Hence, maintenance becomes an even greater issue, but against that the usage will be less.
(b). The first stage of the purchase price is to decide on a budget. Of course, the later the model the better, and in my opinion a 70k mile 1995 model is far preferable to a 35k 1987 model. Mileage can be important, but it is only part of the equation. Within your budget you should also allow for perhaps an additional £3k for immediate post purchase repairs. Once you have decided on the budget then start looking for the car. In the initial phone call enquiry you should initially ask about the service history. In my experience the service history of so many vehicles came to an end in 2005 or before. After that date either little or no work had been recorded. It is absolutely critical that you establish that the vehicle you are enquiring about has a full service history, and that the servicing schedule has been adhered to the letter / number; the Schedules being 'C'. '1', '2','3', & '4'. You must also ensure that all the servicing invoices are available. If, all the servicing records are present then ask the seller if there would be any objection to you contacting the dealership / specialist garage that have maintained the vehicle. This can be a very useful exercise, and in my case the dealership said to me that in their view the vehicle I intended to purchase had in fact been 'over-serviced.'
The Bentley Turbo R is a complex piece of machinery that requires constant attention. Parts suffer by age alone, and unless the servicing schedule has been adhered to you are more than likely entering a financial minefield should you proceed to purchase. Unless you feel from your conversation over the phone that the service record stands the test I have outlined then I would be inclined to end the conversation. If, you are satisfied then ask about the rest of the vehicle. In particular the condition of the body with regard to rust. These vehicles do rust, and it is almost impossible to find an example that is rust free. Ask about any rust bubbles along the edges of the windows, around the door handles, the arches and the lower areas. It matters not in my view that the vehicle has had paintwork, and in fact it would be perhaps impossible to find one that was free of body restoration. What matters is the standard of the restoration! In relation to the interior ask whether it has been connolised. I personally would avoid a vehicle that has been connolised, but if a vehicle has been connolised well then that is another matter. However, you should be aware that a freshly connolised vehicle may look very inviting, but it may not last long unless the process has been completed to a high standard.
(b). The second stage is that of the vehicle inspection. I personally begin by having a look around the body, and usually within perhaps less than a minute you will know whether to be jumping back in your car to go home! Really examine every panel, and in particular in those rust spot areas. Do not discount the vehicle if there are some minor body issues, but you should be able to see what is a minor body issue as against a major body defect. In examining the inside of the vehicle assess the leather work, and in particular be careful if it looks very perfect. Have a look in the engine bay. Is it well presented? Can you see any oil leaks? Check all the various levels; transmission, engine, hydraulics. In my view a messy engine bay is often an indicator that a vehicle has not been well looked after.
(c). The third stage is to examine the service records. Spend time going through the service records in detail. In particular look for any work that has been carried out with regard to major components; that would include the brakes, the back axle, steering rack etc. All of these are very expensive to replace, and I cannot emphasise enough the importance of the hydraulic service; Service 3. Very expensive and critical. Do not be frightened to spend the best part of 30 mins plus going through the service invoices.
(d). The fourth stage is to take the vehicle on a test drive. Insist before you come that you want to start the engine from cold. How does it sound? There is a test you can carry out on the hydraulic pressure. I know the test but best take expert advice. On the test drive how does the vehicle drive? How well do the brakes appear to work? Are there any noises? Make sure the radio is off. Make sure the test drive is around 20 miles.
(e). The fifth stage is to have a look at the underneath of a vehicle on a ramp. Start by having the vehicle at a height that you can see the lower parts of the doors, wings and sills. At this height you would be amazed at what might have looked perfect at first glance now looks very different. Once the ramp is fully extended take a torch and have a look underneath. Initially in your own mind you want to form a view of how the vehicle presents itself from underneath. Does it all look very rusty, or in fact quite tidy? With the use of the torch go from the front end to the back. Look very hard for any fluid leaks. Leaks can be expensive. In heading towards the back of the vehicle you will see at the bottom of the rear springs suspension cups. Unless these have been replaced they will almost certainly be well and truly corroded. Remind yourself if there was any mention of suspension work in the service records.
(f). The sixth stage I regard as optional but highly recommended. If, you are satisfied in your own mind that the car meets your criteria then I would advise that you have a Bentley specialist also look at the vehicle. Although, you may feel that you are going over old ground a second expert opinion can be very helpful. Almost certainly the specialist will identify anything that appears worrying, and advise you accordingly. Of course, you may have the confidence to proceed without a specialist opinion, but if you have to spend £400.00 on a pre purchase inspection it could be a drop in the ocean with what you might have to pay for any unidentified problems.
Having looked at a few Bentley Turbo Rs many have fallen so far behind in relation to mechanical maintenance and body repair that they have little or no value. However, the really good examples will always have a value, and provided you start with the right example, and maintain it as required, the vehicle will be thoroughly rewarding. It is no bad idea to discuss with your specialist garage not only the existing service, but repairs for the future. This will enable you to budget accordingly. As time progresses I will let you know as to whether my own buying advice worked for me!
I stress again that I am only providing my lay opinion and not expert advice. I am no mechanic and no expert, but I felt my views just might help future buyers.
Chris
Over the last 30 years I have enjoyed many great vehicles, but it was about three years ago that my interest turned to Rolls Royces & Bentleys. What triggered my particular interest was assisting a German client with the rebuild of a Bentley S3. The Bentley was of sentimental value to the client, and I was asked whether I knew any specialist restorer in the UK who could perform the task. I did know of such a restorer, and in fact two years on the Bentley was restored to perfection. The client was delighted, and along the way I purchased a 1974 Silver Shadow. I enjoyed the Shadow for about 18 months, but due to the need for garage space the Shadow found a new home.
Earlier this year I was focused on acquiring a Bentley T2, but I was unable to find quite the right car. In fact a really nice example was presented to me, but I could not quite come to terms with the price; a decision which in time I have no doubt I will regret. It was then by chance that I felt that a Bentley Turbo R might be a better option, and I am delighted to say that about two months ago a late 1997 Turbo R arrived in my garage.
The purpose of this note is to provide some lay advice to anybody else out there who is thinking about a Bentley Turbo R as a purchase. What I say is not professional advice, and is based entirely upon my own opinion which you may choose to accept or reject. Although, much of what I will say is based on pure common sense I do feel that a special set of rules do apply to buying a Bentley Turbo R. The rules I believe are as follows:
(a). At the very outset you must have in mind that the Bentley Turbo R, although representing great value now, was a very expensive vehicle to buy when new, and equally expensive to maintain. In short they were acquired by wealthy individuals / companies who had the required financial means. As the vehicles become older it is important to remember that the maintenance required increases as sadly although the build quality is high everything has a life. Hence, maintenance becomes an even greater issue, but against that the usage will be less.
(b). The first stage of the purchase price is to decide on a budget. Of course, the later the model the better, and in my opinion a 70k mile 1995 model is far preferable to a 35k 1987 model. Mileage can be important, but it is only part of the equation. Within your budget you should also allow for perhaps an additional £3k for immediate post purchase repairs. Once you have decided on the budget then start looking for the car. In the initial phone call enquiry you should initially ask about the service history. In my experience the service history of so many vehicles came to an end in 2005 or before. After that date either little or no work had been recorded. It is absolutely critical that you establish that the vehicle you are enquiring about has a full service history, and that the servicing schedule has been adhered to the letter / number; the Schedules being 'C'. '1', '2','3', & '4'. You must also ensure that all the servicing invoices are available. If, all the servicing records are present then ask the seller if there would be any objection to you contacting the dealership / specialist garage that have maintained the vehicle. This can be a very useful exercise, and in my case the dealership said to me that in their view the vehicle I intended to purchase had in fact been 'over-serviced.'
The Bentley Turbo R is a complex piece of machinery that requires constant attention. Parts suffer by age alone, and unless the servicing schedule has been adhered to you are more than likely entering a financial minefield should you proceed to purchase. Unless you feel from your conversation over the phone that the service record stands the test I have outlined then I would be inclined to end the conversation. If, you are satisfied then ask about the rest of the vehicle. In particular the condition of the body with regard to rust. These vehicles do rust, and it is almost impossible to find an example that is rust free. Ask about any rust bubbles along the edges of the windows, around the door handles, the arches and the lower areas. It matters not in my view that the vehicle has had paintwork, and in fact it would be perhaps impossible to find one that was free of body restoration. What matters is the standard of the restoration! In relation to the interior ask whether it has been connolised. I personally would avoid a vehicle that has been connolised, but if a vehicle has been connolised well then that is another matter. However, you should be aware that a freshly connolised vehicle may look very inviting, but it may not last long unless the process has been completed to a high standard.
(b). The second stage is that of the vehicle inspection. I personally begin by having a look around the body, and usually within perhaps less than a minute you will know whether to be jumping back in your car to go home! Really examine every panel, and in particular in those rust spot areas. Do not discount the vehicle if there are some minor body issues, but you should be able to see what is a minor body issue as against a major body defect. In examining the inside of the vehicle assess the leather work, and in particular be careful if it looks very perfect. Have a look in the engine bay. Is it well presented? Can you see any oil leaks? Check all the various levels; transmission, engine, hydraulics. In my view a messy engine bay is often an indicator that a vehicle has not been well looked after.
(c). The third stage is to examine the service records. Spend time going through the service records in detail. In particular look for any work that has been carried out with regard to major components; that would include the brakes, the back axle, steering rack etc. All of these are very expensive to replace, and I cannot emphasise enough the importance of the hydraulic service; Service 3. Very expensive and critical. Do not be frightened to spend the best part of 30 mins plus going through the service invoices.
(d). The fourth stage is to take the vehicle on a test drive. Insist before you come that you want to start the engine from cold. How does it sound? There is a test you can carry out on the hydraulic pressure. I know the test but best take expert advice. On the test drive how does the vehicle drive? How well do the brakes appear to work? Are there any noises? Make sure the radio is off. Make sure the test drive is around 20 miles.
(e). The fifth stage is to have a look at the underneath of a vehicle on a ramp. Start by having the vehicle at a height that you can see the lower parts of the doors, wings and sills. At this height you would be amazed at what might have looked perfect at first glance now looks very different. Once the ramp is fully extended take a torch and have a look underneath. Initially in your own mind you want to form a view of how the vehicle presents itself from underneath. Does it all look very rusty, or in fact quite tidy? With the use of the torch go from the front end to the back. Look very hard for any fluid leaks. Leaks can be expensive. In heading towards the back of the vehicle you will see at the bottom of the rear springs suspension cups. Unless these have been replaced they will almost certainly be well and truly corroded. Remind yourself if there was any mention of suspension work in the service records.
(f). The sixth stage I regard as optional but highly recommended. If, you are satisfied in your own mind that the car meets your criteria then I would advise that you have a Bentley specialist also look at the vehicle. Although, you may feel that you are going over old ground a second expert opinion can be very helpful. Almost certainly the specialist will identify anything that appears worrying, and advise you accordingly. Of course, you may have the confidence to proceed without a specialist opinion, but if you have to spend £400.00 on a pre purchase inspection it could be a drop in the ocean with what you might have to pay for any unidentified problems.
Having looked at a few Bentley Turbo Rs many have fallen so far behind in relation to mechanical maintenance and body repair that they have little or no value. However, the really good examples will always have a value, and provided you start with the right example, and maintain it as required, the vehicle will be thoroughly rewarding. It is no bad idea to discuss with your specialist garage not only the existing service, but repairs for the future. This will enable you to budget accordingly. As time progresses I will let you know as to whether my own buying advice worked for me!
I stress again that I am only providing my lay opinion and not expert advice. I am no mechanic and no expert, but I felt my views just might help future buyers.
Chris
just a few points.........ALL of these cars will have had paintwork, many having had it under warranty at a very young age, so it would be unrealistic to expect one to have had none, just make sure the quality is good.
Pay the bit of extra money and buy from someone who is experienced in them and is happy to give you their own warranty.
POORCARDEALER said:
just a few points.........ALL of these cars will have had paintwork, many having had it under warranty at a very young age, so it would be unrealistic to expect one to have had none, just make sure the quality is good.
Pay the bit of extra money and buy from someone who is experienced in them and is happy to give you their own warranty.
Pay the bit of extra money and buy from someone who is experienced in them and is happy to give you their own warranty.
Making sure of course that they have the facilities to follow through on the warranty work 
Excellent post Chris. I have been looking at one in the classifieds on and off for a little while that looks to be a very lovely example, taken at face value. A 98 model RT with 60,000 miles on the clock. The most niggling issue for me is that the service history is impeccable up until September 2003, all main dealer. Then in January 2007 at 55,708 miles it was serviced at an independant. We are now almost December 2009 and presumably the dealer selling will service the car. So it would appear that sometime during 2004 the owner had encountered some financial troubles and was unable to continue to maintain the car as they had been able to do previosuly. Having had two and sometimes three services carried out within one year all of a sudden she has travelled 15,000 miles between 2003 and 2007 before an indie service and to date no more. My heart says "so what, in real terms the mileage is not that great. But my head says run a mile. (which would be difficult as I am on crutches)". What would be the general consensus of opinion ?
graeme36s said:
Excellent post Chris. I have been looking at one in the classifieds on and off for a little while that looks to be a very lovely example, taken at face value. A 98 model RT with 60,000 miles on the clock. The most niggling issue for me is that the service history is impeccable up until September 2003, all main dealer. Then in January 2007 at 55,708 miles it was serviced at an independant. We are now almost December 2009 and presumably the dealer selling will service the car. So it would appear that sometime during 2004 the owner had encountered some financial troubles and was unable to continue to maintain the car as they had been able to do previosuly. Having had two and sometimes three services carried out within one year all of a sudden she has travelled 15,000 miles between 2003 and 2007 before an indie service and to date no more. My heart says "so what, in real terms the mileage is not that great. But my head says run a mile. (which would be difficult as I am on crutches)". What would be the general consensus of opinion ?
It isnt always financial problems that stop cars being serviced on time, owner abroad, car in storage etc is often the reason with Supercars.If everything else was A1 with the car i would dtill buy it, however 2 identical cars at the same money I would take the car with every stamp in the book.
Cheers Matt. Have a look at the link and their site which details service intervals. Just looks like times where hard. But with a thorough PPI it should highlight any problems. I have a very good mate who cut his teeth at Hillier Hill (he's 44 years old now) that I am inclined to ask to go look see.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1330125.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1330125.htm
Edited by graeme36s on Monday 30th November 23:02
Hi Graeme,
When I was looking to make my purchase of a Bentley Turbo R somebody said to me, “These are very difficult cars both to buy and to sell.” Those words have stuck with me as they could not be more correct.
I would regard the 1998 Bentley Turbo RT that you are considering as a very desirable model with a reasonably attractive mileage. In reality you are looking at a car which had its last service in 2003. Unless the 2007 service was a major service with a detailed supporting invoice, you should treat the vehicle as a vehicle that needs re commissioning. For example, is there any record of the Schedule 3, hydraulic Service? Are there any old MOTs for the in between period? The inspection is a great idea, and what needs to follow is a re commissioning service to bring the vehicle right up to date regarding the service schedule. I can only guess that under the circumstances this will be an expensive exercise for the company / person that is paying.
When you come to sell the vehicle you will then have this service, and any subsequent services, as forming a very important part of the vehicle’s recent history. Future prospective purchasers would be greatly encouraged to consider a purchase, but there will those prospective purchasers who will hold the service gaps against the vehicle. I do agree with the comment that if there were two identical vehicles being sold, and only the one had an A1 service history with a fully stamped up book and supporting invoices, then the A1 vehicle will win every time. However, in my limited experience such vehicles are becoming a rare find and carry a premium price.
As I say this is only my lay opinion and I am no expert. I am assuming the rest of the car is almost perfect. A well qualified expert will tell you exactly what needs to be done regarding bringing the vehicle up to date in relation to servicing / repairs. Chris
When I was looking to make my purchase of a Bentley Turbo R somebody said to me, “These are very difficult cars both to buy and to sell.” Those words have stuck with me as they could not be more correct.
I would regard the 1998 Bentley Turbo RT that you are considering as a very desirable model with a reasonably attractive mileage. In reality you are looking at a car which had its last service in 2003. Unless the 2007 service was a major service with a detailed supporting invoice, you should treat the vehicle as a vehicle that needs re commissioning. For example, is there any record of the Schedule 3, hydraulic Service? Are there any old MOTs for the in between period? The inspection is a great idea, and what needs to follow is a re commissioning service to bring the vehicle right up to date regarding the service schedule. I can only guess that under the circumstances this will be an expensive exercise for the company / person that is paying.
When you come to sell the vehicle you will then have this service, and any subsequent services, as forming a very important part of the vehicle’s recent history. Future prospective purchasers would be greatly encouraged to consider a purchase, but there will those prospective purchasers who will hold the service gaps against the vehicle. I do agree with the comment that if there were two identical vehicles being sold, and only the one had an A1 service history with a fully stamped up book and supporting invoices, then the A1 vehicle will win every time. However, in my limited experience such vehicles are becoming a rare find and carry a premium price.
As I say this is only my lay opinion and I am no expert. I am assuming the rest of the car is almost perfect. A well qualified expert will tell you exactly what needs to be done regarding bringing the vehicle up to date in relation to servicing / repairs. Chris
it's perhaps also important to remember that different people have different requirements.
as an absurd example, when I went to look at mine, I was concerned mainly with paintwork and to a lesser extent the body work, and not at all concerned with the service history.
In my case, any mechanical work can be carried out by me at my leisure, with the only real limitation being the cost of the spare parts. What I can't do, however, is painting, which would have been prohibitively expensive.
the first question to ask is "how are you going to look after the car?"
as an absurd example, when I went to look at mine, I was concerned mainly with paintwork and to a lesser extent the body work, and not at all concerned with the service history.
In my case, any mechanical work can be carried out by me at my leisure, with the only real limitation being the cost of the spare parts. What I can't do, however, is painting, which would have been prohibitively expensive.
the first question to ask is "how are you going to look after the car?"
With the weather having been marginally better over the last few weeks there has been the opportunity to take my Bentley Turbo R out for some runs. Every time I drive this vehicle it just gives me such pleasure, and the performance for this heavy weight machine is remarkable. Of course, preparing to take the vehicle out for a run is much akin to a pilot preparing an aircraft for flight. After all the usual checks there is the warming up process, and then finally one is ready to go. After the trip out there is then the hibernation process once back in the garage. Of course, the only problem at present is when an unexpected shower of rain descends, which results in having to embark on the drying and cleaning process once home.
I cannot recommend the Bentley Turbo R highly enough as a purchase. Of course, they are expensive to run, and I am always adding to my mental list of issues to be addressed. However, I do believe that if you can find a well maintained vehicle when going through the buying process then the expense issue of running one of these vehicles should be more reasonable. The paintwork is a critical area, and I am continuously monitoring the potential areas of corrosion. The door tip ends immediately underneath the side windows are particularly vulnerable, and in time will need addressing. Then there is the area by the entry door handles. A small amount of corrosion has suddenly started to appear. My vehicle is in brewster green. How easy is this colour to match if painting the top of the doors down to the coachline? Looking forward now to some better weather, and my Turbo R having some more frequent outings without the rain showers. Still looking for some almost new conifer lambswool rugs. Delighted to hear if some become available.
I cannot recommend the Bentley Turbo R highly enough as a purchase. Of course, they are expensive to run, and I am always adding to my mental list of issues to be addressed. However, I do believe that if you can find a well maintained vehicle when going through the buying process then the expense issue of running one of these vehicles should be more reasonable. The paintwork is a critical area, and I am continuously monitoring the potential areas of corrosion. The door tip ends immediately underneath the side windows are particularly vulnerable, and in time will need addressing. Then there is the area by the entry door handles. A small amount of corrosion has suddenly started to appear. My vehicle is in brewster green. How easy is this colour to match if painting the top of the doors down to the coachline? Looking forward now to some better weather, and my Turbo R having some more frequent outings without the rain showers. Still looking for some almost new conifer lambswool rugs. Delighted to hear if some become available.
New discs and pads on each corner. Not a cheap exercise. I have the optional sport brakes on the front. Could not believe the price of the pads! Went through the service history carefully, and noted that they appear to have a 10k life. Spoke about this with my Bentley specialist. Said he knew of an owner who was managing 5k per set on the front pads. Weather turned v poor down here in Sussex so guess my Bentley will not be out for the next few days. However, that has left plenty time for detail valeting in the evenings. Amazing how much time you can spend cleaning / polishing these vehicles, but so rewarding. Invested quite a lot of time cleaning the engine compartment. The results made it a very worthwhile exercise.
Well Im into month 7 of my 97 P Turbo RL and its been a daily driver for every trip (even to tesco) since end of Jan when the CLS was sold.
The Bentley was never a long term purchase but its been a fun one, my entire cost since it arrived apart from petrol is a set of new lambs mats for the front. No other costs however a 6 month service is due and will happen next week, I have done approx 2500 miles. It helps it was sold with one of the best warranties I have experienced on a used car from Hanwells and a few minor jobs were done after delivery (door solenoids and a few bulbs) and the warranty is still valid so Im quite confident
However I have ordered a new Audi for winter delivery and will use a convertible for the summer so the Bentley is to be sold and will appear on here in due course.
Its been a blast and will be for a short while yet
)
The Bentley was never a long term purchase but its been a fun one, my entire cost since it arrived apart from petrol is a set of new lambs mats for the front. No other costs however a 6 month service is due and will happen next week, I have done approx 2500 miles. It helps it was sold with one of the best warranties I have experienced on a used car from Hanwells and a few minor jobs were done after delivery (door solenoids and a few bulbs) and the warranty is still valid so Im quite confident
However I have ordered a new Audi for winter delivery and will use a convertible for the summer so the Bentley is to be sold and will appear on here in due course.
Its been a blast and will be for a short while yet
)
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